Warlord -> Regent !

[LivingDog]

Big difference between the lower level "Warlord" and "Regent." I was wondering if there are some tips about making the switch to a higher level of play.

E.g. I kicked the enemy's AI butt in a Warlord level game. I had TOW infantry and it had Horsemen and Pikemen. Can we say I could have conquered the entire map if I realized the big advantage I had? yes - if I wasn't such a newbie!! Ah well, play and learn. I collected as many resources building a bunch of Cities and Workmen. My income was so high I had 1k+ gold, while setting Research to 60% and Entertainment to 20%. (Please allow me my microsecond of glory - I know this is nothing for experienced players. : )

Apparently this strategy only works against the Warlord AI.

So now that I upped the level to Regent it is quite another story. I had - note HAD - 10 cities, so did (apparently - that's how many I saw at our border) the AI. My cities were near rivers, mountains, with Food 3 and Gold 2. Each had at least one Spearman and some had one Swordsman, one Spearman, and one Warrior. My culture was rocketing towards the modern age. The enemy AI was impressed with my culture.

However, with all those positive values, my cities fell to the AI like warm butter to a hot knife. I tried to avoid building near the AI (my usual strategy is to surround a city and win it without a conflict.) But the AI out maneuvered me apparently building Settlers more often than I did. And it also out fought me in my (what I thought was) well protected cities at the same time! Apparently when the AI attacks a city passed a river, on a hill, protected by a Warrior and Spearman, the AI Spearman always wins. :/

Did S.M. fix the uneven play of the battles/game in CivIV? A thread here mentions that CivIII is simpler to play and not as complicated, but if this unbalanced play persists why bother??

Sorry for the long post. In short there are two requests: 1) tips/threads/links/help-in-general for playing Regent, and 2) is CivIV an improvement?

-thx all,

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Big difference between the lower level "Warlord" and "Regent." I was wondering if there are some tips about making the switch to a higher level of play.

For me, there was only one real difference between Warlord and Regent - the AI trades a lot more on Regent, so the tech pace is faster. It also no longer has any build penalties, so you have to take into account the fact that they build things at the same rate you do, instead of 50% slower. I still play more comfortably at Regent, although I play some Monarch (and die horribly).

So now that I upped the level to Regent it is quite another story. I had - note HAD - 10 cities, so did (apparently - that's how many I saw at our border) the AI. My cities were near rivers, mountains, with Food 3 and Gold 2. Each had at least one Spearman and some had one Swordsman, one Spearman, and one Warrior.

If you can build Swords, build them - they defend as well as Spearmen, have better Attack than Warriors, and cost the same as the two put together. Since the AI determines Military Strength with a bias toward Attack values, a Swordsman is more valuable than a Warrior + Spearman.

However, with all those positive values, my cities fell to the AI like warm butter to a hot knife. I tried to avoid building near the AI (my usual strategy is to surround a city and win it without a conflict.)

They will build Culture buildings, so unless you squeeze their cities and rush a *lot* of Culture, taking a city without a fight will be hard work.

And it also out fought me in my (what I thought was) well protected cities at the same time! Apparently when the AI attacks a city passed a river, on a hill, protected by a Warrior and Spearman, the AI Spearman always wins. :/

It may seem that way, but considering the AI almost never actually attacks with Spearmen, I'd say you're overestimating slightly. Now, a Fortified Vet Spear on a Hill-city with a Wall across a river is probably the best defense you're likely to get, but given that combat is percentage-based, it's always possible to lose a fight (see Tank vs Spearman). In any case, you don't particularly want to be defending - if you attack, all the combat is taking place on the AI's territory, disrupting their cities' growth instead of yours.

1) tips/threads/links/help-in-general for playing Regent

Expand aggressively, expect the AI to be a jerk, and lead with your sword.

 

[vmxa]

It always comes down to making enough workers soon enough. IOW, if a town has a tile that is being worked by a citizen, it must get improved asap. IF you are not comnig close to getting all worked tiles improved, at least in the core, then you need more workers.

Don't make spears is the advice I took from Aeson years ago. At regent, you do not need them. As was mentioned swords have they same defense and can attack.

Don't build too many structures inplaces that do not need them and if they will need them try not to build them way ahead of the need in the early game. IOW a size 2 town does not need a lib right now.

Later it can use one, maybe, and it can build it faster then. In the meantime you spent gold on it and got nothing for it. This at a time when money is hard to comeby.

See my Regent tutorial for ideas in the Strategy Articles. See some of the training SG's for more details.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

IOW a size 2 town does not need a lib right now.
Later it can use one, maybe, and it can build it faster then. In the meantime you spent gold on it and got nothing for it. This at a time when money is hard to comeby.

Unless you're Scientific and using it for a Culture push, but even then it's likely a Temple would be as good, since you're getting an extra happy face.

 

[Raliuven]

Two quick thoughts to build on the advice already given:

Aside from having enough workers, also make sure you are usuing them efficiently. Plan your worker moves and plan ahead. Way ahead. Think 5, 10 or 20 turns down the line. On Regent, your production base may be the same as the AI, but your use of workers still gives you a production edge. In the first 50 turns, worker moves will have a huge impact on your game.

REX. Expand, expand, expand. Remember that the AI will be expanding quicker because they don't have a production penalty, so you need to step it up as well. Now is a good time to learn to use settler and worker factories.

 

[GamezRule]

I think I noticed something nobody else mentioned, you said you had at least a spearmen in every town. That is a big problem right there. You actually can leave you're cities undefended, as long as no AI can reach it before you can defend it.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . .1) tips/threads/links/help-in-general for playing Regent . . . .

There's a link to an Archive of Training Day Games in my sig. TDGs are games played by several players, including at least one upper-level player, who acts as a trainer. There's a whole lotta discussion about the hows and the whys of C3C in those games.

 

[LivingDog]

ChaosArbiter: I thought I was more aggressive creating settlers more than I usually do. I learned about Spearmen in "Cheiftain" ... so ok now it's Swordsmen. I was building up my culture in order to prevent the enemy AI from building near me... but that didn't work. No more "surround and submit" for me on this higher level.

vmxa: So Workers, Settlers, and then Swordsmen (must find iron!).

Raliuven: never thought of a town as a Worker/Settler production factory. But if the special resources are "factories" for those resources why not use the town the same way!

GamezRule: not in this scenario. The AI was on my toes almost the whole time. I think they were building Settlers too fast, but that would be silly to think the AI was cheating...

Thanks guys. I think I will be returning to this thread as I learn to play Regent... so much info...

 

[vmxa]

I think I noticed something nobody else mentioned, you said you had at least a spearmen in every town. That is a big problem right there. You actually can leave you're cities undefended, as long as no AI can reach it before you can defend it.

Nice try, but I mentioned the advice on spears from Aeson.

 

[Raliuven]

Raliuven: never thought of a town as a Worker/Settler production factory. But if the special resources are "factories" for those resources why not use the town the same way!

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this. What I meant by a worker or settler factor is setting up towns that do nothing but produce workers and settlers. Worker factors are easier - the object is to produce a worker every two turns while keeping the city at the same population (or one every three turns, etc).

A settler factory is harder - you need a town that can produce +5fpt while also producing 30 shields in 4 turns while at size 6 or less.

There are also combo settler/warrior factories that can operate on 6 turn cycles, etc. The point is to produce as many settlers as possible early in the game. Claim that land, resources and luxuries before the AI stakes a claim.

In order to set up a factory you will certainly need bonuses - wheat, cattle, etc. But you will also need to improve the tiles correctly and micromanage to keep the factory on target. It is very easy for a 4 turn settler factory to go off the tracks, though sometimes you can get lucky and have a self sustaining settler factory.

 

[GamezRule]

Post a save and you can get more help that it tuned more to your game.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

A settler factory is harder - you need a town that can produce +5fpt while also producing 30 shields in 4 turns while at size 6 or less.

There are also combo settler/warrior factories that can operate on 6 turn cycles, etc. The point is to produce as many settlers as possible early in the game. Claim that land, resources and luxuries before the AI stakes a claim.

In order to set up a factory you will certainly need bonuses - wheat, cattle, etc. But you will also need to improve the tiles correctly and micromanage to keep the factory on target. It is very easy for a 4 turn settler factory to go off the tracks, though sometimes you can get lucky and have a self sustaining settler factory.

Oh yes. I have a start that just *screams* Settler Factory at me (3 Wheat, on Grasslands, with several BGs and some Forests nearby). However, I'm absolutely incompetent at running any sort of micromanagement, so it's a bit of a waste.

 

[dominatr]

ChaosArbiter: I thought I was more aggressive creating settlers more than I usually do. I learned about Spearmen in "Cheiftain" ... so ok now it's Swordsmen. I was building up my culture in order to prevent the enemy AI from building near me... but that didn't work. No more "surround and submit" for me on this higher level.

vmxa: So Workers, Settlers, and then Swordsmen (must find iron!).

Raliuven: never thought of a town as a Worker/Settler production factory. But if the special resources are "factories" for those resources why not use the town the same way!

GamezRule: not in this scenario. The AI was on my toes almost the whole time. I think they were building Settlers too fast, but that would be silly to think the AI was cheating...

Thanks guys. I think I will be returning to this thread as I learn to play Regent... so much info...

don't try to stay away from the AI, meet as many civs as you can, and keep your border cities heavily garrisoned. Certain civs that have the agricultural trait could score a few cows at their starting point, so that may be why some civs are expanding so quickly.

as for technology, it will be tough to get ahead, but you have to keep up, especially with military ones, since that seems to have been one of your weak points against the Regent AI. Remember, you are a human and have a real brain, so in any level of difficulty, use that to your advantage and outsmart them, pull clever acts.

 

[Raliuven]

Oh yes. I have a start that just *screams* Settler Factory at me (3 Wheat, on Grasslands, with several BGs and some Forests nearby). However, I'm absolutely incompetent at running any sort of micromanagement, so it's a bit of a waste.

At one time I felt the same way. I thought the MM got in the way of the game. Now I think that MM IS the game. I have always directed my workers, but I relied on the Governors for a very, very long time.

The settler factory can be a little tricky, but practice makes perfect. I played 36 test games that revolved around settler and worker factors, so now it is just second nature. Floodplains still mess me up, though. Need more experience with that.

I would love a 3 wheat on grassland for a starting location! Unfortunately I usually get weeds on a plain tile. But the volume more than makes up for the lack of quality.

 

[LivingDog]

Raliuven: that's what I thought you meant. I was only comparing a resource for materials as a town for a resource of man power. On my level (never do diplomacy, only 1 AI for now) that's all there really is.

GamezRule: post here? as an attachment?

ChaosArbiter: yes! You articulated what I am utterly clueless about - micromanagement. I'll do it... what is it? (hehehe paraphrasing Raliuven's sig.)

dominatr: here is a detailed list of my weak points:

• everything - after I start the game

I also am only playing against 1 AI until I feel confident to deal with two jerks - I mean two AI players.

PS: so far, with the switch to more Settlers and Swordsmen, the AI isn't as aggressive and their scattered cities are falling one after another. A pleasant benefit of CivFan's tips!

Thanks again guys. With vmxa's tutorial I feel my learning curve is no longer negative!

 

[ChaosArbiter]

At one time I felt the same way. I thought the MM got in the way of the game. Now I think that MM IS the game. I have always directed my workers, but I relied on the Governors for a very, very long time.

The settler factory can be a little tricky, but practice makes perfect. I played 36 test games that revolved around settler and worker factors, so now it is just second nature. Floodplains still mess me up, though. Need more experience with that.

Oh, I believe that MM is an important part of the game, I just can't bring myself to A) Do the math, or B) Check every turn or so to make sure it hasn't gone off the rails. I don't rely on the Governors, but I don't usually make the effort to squeeze every last bit of usefulness out of something ... similarly, whenever people talk about shield or beaker overflow, I still read it but my brain stops paying attention. I understand the reasoning behind it, but ....

GamezRule: post here? as an attachment?

When you Post or Quote (but not if you Quick Reply), down below the smilies there's the Additional Options. One of them is Manage Attachments, and you can upload saves using it.

 

[bryanw1995]

Raliuven: that's what I thought you meant. I was only comparing a resource for materials as a town for a resource of man power. On my level (never do diplomacy, only 1 AI for now) that's all there really is.

GamezRule: post here? as an attachment?

ChaosArbiter: yes! You articulated what I am utterly clueless about - micromanagement. I'll do it... what is it? (hehehe paraphrasing Raliuven's sig.)

dominatr: here is a detailed list of my weak points:

• everything - after I start the game

I also am only playing against 1 AI until I feel confident to deal with two jerks - I mean two AI players.

PS: so far, with the switch to more Settlers and Swordsmen, the AI isn't as aggressive and their scattered cities are falling one after another. A pleasant benefit of CivFan's tips!

Thanks again guys. With vmxa's tutorial I feel my learning curve is no longer negative!

at higher level games it is important to get extremely early contact with as many ai's as possible. beeline philosophy, trade techs like mad to keep up in the tech race until you get your empire rolling. I fell behind on my current monarch game b/c I didn't get the settler/worker factory up quickly enough, but fortunately I was sumeria and was able stay just close enough plus the free tech per era to squeak back into it. also, I had 3 irons and traded a few of them for techs to civs on the other continent

 

[GamezRule]

Also, the directory is programfiles/firaxis/civ3/conquests/saves. If you are on windows vista/7 there should be a button on the top bar that says compatibility files, once you get into conquests. Replace conquests with PTW if you are playing that, or forget it all together if on vanilla.

 

[CommandoBob]

I also am only playing against 1 AI until I feel confident to deal with two jerks - I mean two AI players.

Ah, but with only one AI you miss out on several human advantages.

One is tech trading. Even at Monarch it is possible to research a tech that the AI does not know and then sell it to them in exchange for two or more techs they do know that you did not research. Often you can get gold-per-turn deals from the AI, which will help you research faster, since you can push the science slider (F1, Domestic Advisor) higher and still have enough money to pay for unit upkeep and building maintenance. If you use Continents or Archipeligo settings, it is possible to serve a middleman of tech trading, where you sell tech one to civ A to get tech two, which in turn you sell to civ B for tech three and then sell tech three to civ A for other goodies (tech, gold, luxuries or resources).

Two is dogpiling. The AI to the east has an attack of the stupids and decides to declare war on you. In addition to fighting back yourself, get everyone else to sign Military Alliances against that AI. Most of them won't do anything important, but usually one AI takes the message to heart and really beats up on the common foe. This makes your job of removing that common AI much easier. With enemies on all sides the AI won't be able to send as many units your direction.

The AI is not to be feared. At the difficulty levels increase, their unit cost, building cost and tech cost decrease. At Diety and Sid they also get extra starting units. For everyone the number of citizens born 'content' decreases, which makes unhappiness a greater issue as you move up the levels.

Start a game on a Tiny map (fewest AIs) and expirement. Tiny maps play the fastest.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

One is tech trading. Even at Monarch it is possible to research a tech that the AI does not know and then sell it to them in exchange for two or more techs they do know that you did not research. Often you can get gold-per-turn deals from the AI, which will help you research faster, since you can push the science slider (F1, Domestic Advisor) higher and still have enough money to pay for unit upkeep and building maintenance.

This. After being second-best tech-wise for most of the game (on Regent *shrug*), I managed to get Electricity first. Selling it around to everyone gave me all the other Industrial techs I didn't have (including Communism and Industrialization) along with ~1000 gold and 100+ gpt.