Warlords Patch Suggestions

[Vonjan]

Forts suck currently. I never build them, nobody builds them.
Give peaceful civs some real reasons to STAY PEACEFUL, like +1 happiness bonus in all cities for every 100 turns you do not declare war. I dunno, I'm not a game designer but the peacenicks need some sort of bonus to compensate for NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE. Extra culture or happiness seems like the best solution. Switzerland would not survive in a Warlords World. But Switzerland HAS survived in our world, and not because they're sitting on a huge pile of oil that they trade with everyone.

err Last time i checked Switzerland kept all that gold from a whole bunch of folks that got zapped by a german psycho.
Peacefull does not make a contry pearly white in fact the simple fact they remain Neutral Makes them worse than good or evil.. Because they dont care.
alot of folks died in some serios nasty wars... the simple fact swiss remained bias Makes Them Cowards but hey they dont care they are rich who care about the world when you are right?

Evil triumph when good Men Stay silent.

 

[Dionysius]

err Last time i checked Switzerland kept all that gold from a whole bunch of folks that got zapped by a german psycho.

i doubt they wanted to be among the zapped.
hell, england let hitler run amok until poland, lets not forget that.
and only a change of leadership made that happen.

 

[Vonjan]

ya..anyway Besides all the little changes here and there Warlord is a sweet game. i just Hope should they be another Civ That Fresh Water should be considered as Resource.Bring back the Salt.and add Jule Vernes as a Great Artist and oh building a fort around a mine ,Oil,or other resources would make the fort usefull

 

[ZB2]

for defensive purposes, i build a fort in any tile that cannot be worked by a city, these tiles are really at the heart of my empire, and with my military strategy, attackers rarely enter deep ground - i use them for raling points for new units, making an army, poring units to that tile, then a few turns later check the stack, move them to a far off city, then start over again.

*wishful thinking for forts in the next patch::
**they should not remove the terrain when they are planted down, (people may complain about one being built on Hills/Forest but so what, we did it in Civ3, and it was very successful with its combined 25/50/25% defensive bonus
**that zone of control HAS TO BE BACK. with it, in Civ3, you could rape an invading army even if it brushes past. this can work via new fort logic, or specail unit ability when stationed in a fort.
**fortress maybe? level two fort? im really just thinking of all the civ3 stuff, but makin a crappy fort, then upgrading it to fortress would help defend even better - maybe use cottage logic, 40 turns and its a fortress
**invading army if it has to cross a fort, it uses all movement points for that turn. - i always liked this, as it slowed down Stacks of Doom, giving more time for fodder attacks

N.B im not sure about having a fort ontop of a resource with its improvement, it would end up with them being everywhere which warmonger players wont like at all, and make defending too simple. how about forts can be anywhere, on any tile, on any improvement (tile features wont be removed niether) but not on a tile that has a resource and improvement -- this is good for border wars when someone wants oil, you have two, and you think ahead and get access to the close sorce, but the far off ones are guarded

 

[weasel77066]

I agree that work needs done on forts. Zone of control is a must... I really like the earlier idea of being able to "upgrade" a fort as well. Thats something that should be toyed with. they could be upgraded aa far as your tech will take you. Im thinking of the French wall built after WWI (?) It had underground rails, gas resistant and stretched for how many tens and tens of miles...
Also, they need to add Weasel77066 to the list of great generals

 

[Dionysius]

**fortress maybe? level two fort? im really just thinking of all the civ3 stuff, but makin a crappy fort, then upgrading it to fortress would help defend even better - maybe use cottage logic, 40 turns and its a fortress

it would need to be time troops are stationed in it.
why not make forts a secondary tile improvement, like in civ2?
only they lower yield on the tile so players dont spam with forts.
it would be good for placing over resources out of city limits.

 

[Vonjan]

all this sounds Wonderfull but something tells me i,ll be forking another 30 bucks to see this happend.Actualy its a tourist site that wall in france right?
Maybe they could make it a small wonder?its meaningless but say you need to build a say 6 fortification in a row and give them upgrades Then you could build it.Now i would like to tell my workers to build a bloody tunnel trough that fat mountain in south america or from england to the rest of europe.
Im sure you need some serios tech to build that but hey if im gonna shell out 30 bucks i want some luxury gaming

 

[quizibuk]

id like to see sappers and moats.
sappers should be open at mining and should have no attack or defense but can take down city defences 5% and then die.

moats should be open at mining or bronze working and should make a city immune to sappers

also maybe a ladder man unit that when attached to a melee unit cuts the effect of walls by 50%

 

[Mikey_rex]

I like this thread... my number one, however, is -

Fix the bugs
Sound, crashes, etc.

Other ideas I like:

• Forts: Giving forts a zone of control and and expanded line of sight.
• Imperialistic:Giving -50% anarchy in captured cities
• Expansive: Give say a -25% cost of settler bonus
• U.N.: Can vote for immediate cease fire of any active war
• Monastaries: Can build anytime, after SciMeth, produce +5% commerce (they switch from books to beer, no?
• Great Wall: changing the look of the cultural border to indicate it's effect (hatched line?)
• Red Cross: I almost never build this anymore... pump it up. All units recover +10% in cities (any city).
• Walls, etc: reducing collaterall damage
• SOD: limiting the number of units per tile... let's say to 20 or 21 with a spy.
• Spies: reducing cost to sabotage production, allowing them to reduce the health (pop) of a population, spread any religion in your civ, reducing the health of up to 10 units by 50%.
• Vassal states:Allowing the master state to cancel the relationship anytime after the initial 10 turns.
• Scoring: Reworking the scoring to accomdate the various methods of winning... if you are going for conquest on a huge map it is going to take a long time.
• Peace bonus: production and happiness bonus for remaining at peace for 100 years... 3 turns of +1 per city and +10% commerce.
• New Buildings: Museum +2 culture per turn available with printing press (or steam power since it seemed museums started around the industrial revolution). Victory Arch +1 culture per turn, available at mathmatics and only after you have conqured or razed a city (any city). Culture wins are just too hard now
• New abilities: enable the sacrafice of either one of your units, a barbarian, or another civs unit as a city culture boost... obsolete with the spread of a religion to a city, Code of Laws, and/or free if have free religion (I think you can get to Liberalism w/o Code).
• Renewed abilities: Airdrop as many times as you like into a city (but keep one airdrop out per turn limit).
• Renewed Wonders:Bring back the Theory of Evolution, but with only 1 free tech. Bring back the Art of War (and make it available at Literature), but make it half construction cost of barracks and +50% military production in the city where it is built.

 

[Dionysius]

Victory Arch +1 culture per turn

-1 war unhappy, 15% unit production in city.
reqs destruction of 4 veteran enemy units or capture of enemy city.
+1 happy w/ nationhood.
just ideas...

 

[Mikey_rex]

I like the +1 happy with nationhood with a victory arch (probably should require marble but the soviets built them out of cement in Ethiopia and the US is building the new air force memorial out of steel)

Vassals and GP - I think you should get a 10 turn +50% bonus to GP generation if a civ volunteers to be your vassal (not capitulation)... this is similar to say intellectuals fleeing from Europe to the US in WWII.

 

[weasel77066]

Map trade could be changed to allow world map trade OR territory map. that way map discoveries can be concealed easier (like an island only you know about) I would like to see some kind of unit trade system. Like I can gift a unit to my ally, but he never does this for me. A way to ask for "military aide" would be cool. perhaps like in civ3 where you could buy/sell workers from your capitol.. except to include military units and aircraft etc...
Other thatn that, just have a few fixes that I know of- sound blare on occasion- Thats the, wake the neighbor at 3am bug (LOL) and I have a seemingly random crash to desktop that happens, at times, when I turn on the grid. Mostly Im real happy with the release. It runs good and fastand I play massively huge maps loaded with civs.

EDIT- one thing I realized is you can't upgrade units that are in your vassals territory.I think this should be changed as well

 

[Watiggi]

doesn't mean the keshik used knight technology. the mongols borrowed a lot of things, but the compound bow and the stirrup are both horse archer level technologies. if u want to give the mongols some special siege unit, u can put that at engineering, because that was the most important thing they borrowed. and its rather irrelevant that the mongols conquered ppl in the 13th century. it is more relevant what technology the keshik used.

I don't think that was the developers thinking. I think they just removed the old Horsemen and decided to give a bit of variety (much like 'Axemen', 'Swordmen', 'Macemen', 'Granaiders', etc) and made it a Horse Archer. Because they changed it, they had to move the Keshik back to replace the Horse Archer because it would otherwise look strange. Horse Archers were used in the time of Knights, there is nothing strange there. And the Mongol military was very advanced - they weren't using outdated technology at all. If they left the Horsemen there, then the Keshik would replace the Knight as it would be historically correct. Personally, I like it the way it is. I like waring in the Swordmen era. Besides, now that the Horse Archer is capable of 50%+ withdrawl, it feels more like a Keshik than it would if it were to replace the Knight (which have no withdrawl ability).

using that logic the keshik shouldn't suck the goat balls it does now.

Yeah, I agree. The Keshik really is the equivalent to the Praetorian in that they were both the imperial guard unit of an army that has made a massive mark on history. The Romans ruled for longer but the Mongols conquered more armies. If anything, they both should be on equal levels. I would suggest that the Keshik be given a more agility/evasive focus though, rather than brute strength as it would be more appropriate.

 

[yavoon]

I don't think that was the developers thinking. I think they just removed the old Horsemen and decided to give a bit of variety (much like 'Axemen', 'Swordmen', 'Macemen', 'Granaiders', etc) and made it a Horse Archer. Because they changed it, they had to move the Keshik back to replace the Horse Archer because it would otherwise look strange. Horse Archers were used in the time of Knights, there is nothing strange there. And the Mongol military was very advanced - they weren't using outdated technology at all. If they left the Horsemen there, then the Keshik would replace the Knight as it would be historically correct. Personally, I like it the way it is. I like waring in the Swordmen era. Besides, now that the Horse Archer is capable of 50%+ withdrawl, it feels more like a Keshik than it would if it were to replace the Knight (which have no withdrawl ability).

Yeah, I agree. The Keshik really is the equivalent to the Praetorian in that they were both the imperial guard unit of an army that has made a massive mark on history. The Romans ruled for longer but the Mongols conquered more armies. If anything, they both should be on equal levels. I would suggest that the Keshik be given a more agility/evasive focus though, rather than brute strength as it would be more appropriate.

the horse archer the mongols used was not technologically advanced. their tactics were advanced, they stole/borrowed advanced siege technology. the "keshik" was not a technologically advanced unit.

 

[ZB2]

forts lower yield on the tile so players dont spam with forts.

that i like alot. if i was on the devopteam i would support that.

new building ideas:

--theme park - becuase i always thought that the colleseum would be the roman UB, and the replacement could have been a stadium or ampethietre. the theme park would be a step up for happiness and +1 more for 20% culture. besides, we all like theme parks.
--Sam battery - what with two bombers being able to reduce your defenders to 1/2 so quickly, a nice sam building and a "our stealth bomber was shot down by their SAM SITE" would help keep the preasure off
--that victory building for capturing your first ever city could be a cheap version of the statue, but that gets obsoleted so quickly and a theatre is 50 hammers, a cheap +1 culture would be nice
--commercial dock same as civ3, only to modernize it for Civ4, i guess +25% commerce from TRADE ROUTES and can turn 1 more plucky citizen into a merchant
--civil defense, same as Civ3, maybe +2 XP for land Units and reduces collateral damage - as inspired by Mikey_rex, only not walls as thats far too early and combat would be too hard

i very much doubt all these would be in a patch, but we all know there making another expansion, cos... they gotaa . nevertheless, paratroopers have to come back to Civ

 

[Dionysius]

that i like alot. if i was on the devopteam i would support that.

new building ideas:

--theme park - becuase i always thought that the colleseum would be the roman UB, and the replacement could have been a stadium or ampethietre. the theme park would be a step up for happiness and +1 more for 20% culture. besides, we all like theme parks.

i t would be good if classical built collosseums kept their art, and modern built collosseums looked like they did in civ3 cityview.

i realise slavery is something of a touchy subject, but why not bring back the enslave defeated unit option from that civ3 expansion?

 

[ZB2]

touchy subject? yeah i like that enslave unit, make it for UU only, and captured workers should work the same too, what with -50% tile working (yes i do remember how anoying it was in civ3, but worker stealing is a bit empty in wartime)

 

[mitsho]

err Last time i checked Switzerland kept all that gold from a whole bunch of folks that got zapped by a german psycho.
Peacefull does not make a contry pearly white in fact the simple fact they remain Neutral Makes them worse than good or evil.. Because they dont care.
alot of folks died in some serios nasty wars... the simple fact swiss remained bias Makes Them Cowards but hey they dont care they are rich who care about the world when you are right?

Evil triumph when good Men Stay silent.

I feel insulted right now. But I'm not going to answer as I have no time. Instead, I advise you to take another look at history and stop thinking of the world as good or evil (your last sentence). I could explain you at long why you are wrong, now I don't say that the Swiss were pearly white, I just state that the Americans were neither!

mfG, a Swiss

 

[ZB2]

apart from strategic genius, political debating is another of my strengths.

anyone care to explain what the SWISS MERCENARY unit was in civ3? once upon a time switzerland had a sizeable force, and like the civilopedia will tell you they were contracted to all of europe for their legendary fighting skills.

200 years ago switzerland became a dominant peace nation, having had independance from austrian/bavarian/anyone else applicable occupation. past 100 of switzerland its economy has boomed (tho only rapid in past 40 years) becuase of its peaceful status, theres no threat to its banking, so investing money in swiss banks is a smart move as theres no worries that the country will need to touch anyones savings, - making it a 'rich' nation.

now im not going to bash my own country, USA, becuase its too easy, and the rest of the world does it everyday, cos we do suck, we are a nation of morons who wont get involved in foreign affairs, we are on our own island (yes i know its a continent, im just making a connection) so we dont have to worry about the world as no1 can touch us.

"oh know the russians have missiles in cuba! fort america can be hit!! *gasp*
--maybe they didnt like us having missiles in turkey that can strike at them--
*lets openly say we hate radicals and descriminetly target muslims, that will help us gain a democratic supperiority over them*
--radicals? the world is full of them, they make 'radical regimes' that transform a rural country, into a powerful industrialized state--

the terrorist attacks on the US in 2001 'woke' people up so that they could look at the world through the eyes of the only superpower, a nation that can decide the fate everyone, and for however long had sat back and preeched pro-democratic reforms for countries that had hated america for its forced sanctions 30 years prior (resulting in nationwide resentment for americans and whatever policy they think of is dismissed solely cos americans thought it up). people in the USA are now looking at the world and seeing how they have manipulated it within 15 years of being the only superpower. unfortunetly, americas deep comitment to anything makes it a sucker for anyone willing to take a pot shot at us.

please note for readers that you can never hate an entire country for what one person has done, my style of writting is just so you all get the right message. oh, and that message is that the world hates america cos we dont care about the world anymore.

*Edit, sorry if this went too far in being off topic, but the whole forum goes off topic by the 2nd post, so it shouldnt matter anyway

 

[weasel77066]

I heard rumour that the templar knights fled to to the mountains there after Black Friday (I believe that was it) and eventually set the banking system up in switzerland. Interesting tid bit, but there are lots of theories as to where they dissappeared to.. Thats just one of them that makes sense. They had alot of holdings in the region at the time, and they were definitely involved in lending and banking.
As to their neutrality, Im not touching that one... I'll remain neutral