I think it's worth a thread to discuss and tweak this new feature, just to check-in to see if this is how we'd like to see it implemented. I like the idea of this change - but in practice what I'm experiencing is that the moment I captured my first city ever, all my opponents have had a 75% defensive bonus in their territory ever since, which seems...extreme. I'm not opposed to having a 75% maximum, I just would have thought the accumulation of it would be more gradual, or dissipate sometimes, or whatever. What are others' experiences here?
Warmonger Fervor Discussion
- Thread starter Gidoza
- Start date
I have seen lower values...namely 68%.
It causes warfare to be really focused around what tile you are on. 75% is a huge bonus, the fact that my enemy might have that bonus, or might have 0% if they position poorly, is really dumb. In my current game my swords cannot beat spears currently because that AI has a 75% bonus. I took her capital, guess I can't take anything else. I can easily surround her land but I can't enter it because 75% is way too high. This feels extremely gamey
Moi Magnus
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
- Messages
- 1,868
Well, unless you razed half of the world, I think there is a problem in the formula.
Interesting, i was seeing much smaller values in testing. There’s a log - diplomacyAI_approach : post it on github if you can.
G
I thought about halving it instead of negating it outside owned territory. Better?
ElliotS
Warmonger
As long as it's 0 on the warmonger's land. 1/3rd might be okay, but I think the idea that wars could rubberband back because of a huge combat bonus would inspire RQs like never before.
Well, people (including me) were complaining about penalties of around 20%. Now we have 75% penalties. I think that is the core problem, its just way too high.
Yeah. Like I said, I never saw penalties above 30-40% at the extreme in testing. I wonder if being human is to blame....
ElliotS
Warmonger
Racists robots!
ElliotS
Warmonger
In all seriousness though if the AI is that much more responsive to human warmongering (and therefore less to AI warmongering) it might help explain why AIs can snowball so hard.
I’ll definitely investigate.
Blue Ghost
King
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2016
- Messages
- 710
How is the penalty calculated? What do the diplomatic modifiers (as displayed with transparent diplomacy) translate to?
I have two cities and have just sat in my own little territory beating off people who come near me. Inevitably I'm up against a bonus 75% warmonger rate, even when the other people are Warmongers themselves. I DO raze people's cities, but still... (These wars would be a piece of cake with my level 10+ units, but a speedbuilt unit is able to beat me right back and I need to be careful all the time; I'm definitely preferring the old Capital penalty at the moment...)
...Anyways, how do I post the logs?
LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,500
My suggestion for discussion: perhaps untie it from the relative warmonger score and instead use an objective one, where it increases with every city conquered (capturing original capitals and city states contributing more), and liberating cities decreasing the penalty (a bigger decrease from liberating original capitals and city states). Make it non-applicable in neutral territories.
ElliotS
Warmonger
No, I really like the depth the relative score brings. We just need to tweak the formula.
I don't see that log anywhere. I see APP.log, Database.log, Lua.log, modding.log, net_message_debug.log, stopwatch.log, xml.log, and xml-perf.log. Am I looking in the wrong place?
ElliotS - I don't mind the relative score; it just feels unusual that your unit is majestically stronger or weaker based on what tile you happen to be on, as CrazyG mentioned. I don't think the AI knows how to handle this properly. I'd rather see a more global reaction with more minimal effects.
Rekk
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
- Messages
- 2,725
In Config.ini you need to set:
MessageLog=1
AiLog=1
This isn't stated anywhere in the stickies, unfortunately.
