Warmongering and Diplomacy

[tdotk]

I prefer to win domination victories, mostly b/c I like the warfare aspect of the game (especially in V) but also b/c I find I can't win any way on Imm/Dei without taking out at least a couple AIs (on standard maps), so I might as well take out them all (at least their capitals).

While I do not expect every AI to like me, post-patch I found the AI turning on my very quickly. Particularly annoying is AIs with which I have built 150+ turn friendships that will backstab me, despite no immediate threat (and the UI will still say we are "friends"). I try to build coalitions and not attack friends-of-my-friends, but the AI is so lovey-dovey that sometimes no coalitions will form.

Any suggestions from fellow warmongers out there for how to appease the AIs (at least until slaughter)? For example, I find that if I completely eliminate an AI, other AIs turn on me quicker than if I left them with 1 or 2 (useless) cities. Also, is there any rhyme or reason to denouncing someone? No one every follows my lead on denouncing my enemy, but when I get denounced everyone piles on.

 

[Airey]

Any suggestions from fellow warmongers out there for how to appease the AIs (at least until slaughter)? For example, I find that if I completely eliminate an AI, other AIs turn on me quicker than if I left them with 1 or 2 (useless) cities. Also, is there any rhyme or reason to denouncing someone? No one every follows my lead on denouncing my enemy, but when I get denounced everyone piles on.

This part I suspected it's more to do with overall score. Cities adds alot of points to your score. AIs don't like human have high score. Not being use to domination games, I suspect gunning for Capitals and declare peace would be the easiest way to maintain "reasonable" diplomacy buying player the time needed to take other AI caps. And, obviously fastest to domination wins.

 

[gt9953b]

This part I suspected it's more to do with overall score. Cities adds alot of points to your score. AIs don't like human have high score. Not being use to domination games, I suspect gunning for Capitals and declare peace would be the easiest way to maintain "reasonable" diplomacy buying player the time needed to take other AI caps. And, obviously fastest to domination wins.

Agreed +:
- No conquest; always leave ais with 1 city
- Never agree to DoFs (Declarations of Friendship); has a domino effect once 1 civ desn't like something you're doing.
- I always get it for expanding too fast if I go for 4-5 cities right away. You can expand close to them, tell them you're sorry and don't do it again, which buys you some time before they covet your lands.

Lots more I'm sure others will add...

 

[tdotk]

Interesting point on never doing DoFs, I will have to try it. I typically try and have at least one going so I can get good prices for resources, boarders, RAs, etc.

 

[SpearMan153]

yeah never kill off a civ or a CS - they really don't like that

also founding a city seems to annoy them

I will always denounce the same civs that my friend civ does - that way you get the we both denounced x bonus which can help

I also will never start a war against a civ unless I can find someone else who is willing to bribe me to attack them (or my ally or other civ asks me to). You can use this to gauge how unpopular a civ is (it helps to kill the less popular civs first).

Once you start collecting enemy capitals it becomes pretty clear that you are going for domination win, which could be earning you: you are trying to win the same way as us and/or warmongering menace penalties - and rightly so by the sound of it

 

[Shiwacca42]

Yeah, right now i'm playin a game on standard map size and i took all of the Aztec's cities except one. the second i took the final city All my allies denounced me and now i am at war with three different civs. SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!

 

[snarzberry]

Not entering into DoFs is a bad idea if you want the longest possible good relations with the greatest number of civs. Remember, a civs attitude towards you is just a tally of positive plus negative values, and DoFs are the largest positive influence that you can get. If you pick them wisely with civs with whom you will receive other re-enforcing positive adjusters like friends of friends etc then they're you're best tactic for the longest lasting good trade relations with the most number of civs. Of course you'll be everyones enemy eventually if going for domination but your DoF partners will let you get away with much more warmongering and still trade with you than other civs especially if they are civs that aren't averse to warmongers like Genghis Khan or Napoleon. Getting into an early triangle friendship is goos for your long term trading and friendship outlook. Just don't go signing them willy nilly, go for what you think will give you the most benefit the longest. Either take extensive notes or use infoaddict to make the global situation clearer, it helps to make informed decisions.

 

[Tabarnak]

I rarely DoF an AI. I always says : ''Get over it'', ''It's none of your business''. Less DoWs from AIs over time. They can be afraid too...nice for demanding all their gold and luxuries. Keep a large army.

 

[qemist]

Not entering into DoFs is a bad idea if you want the longest possible good relations with the greatest number of civs. ...

As usual I agree with the redoubtable Snarzby. Selective DOfs make life easier. An immediate neighbor can be a poor choice of friend as I discovered when my pal Gus settled cities between and around all my cities then dowed me. Distance makes the heart grow fonder.

 

[chazzycat]

My favorite allies are warmongers who are far enough away from me not to covet my land. They are the ones who will be willing to jump in on wars against other AIs for cheap. Genghis is my favorite, he seems to be very loyal if you get him allied like this.

I also agree selective DOFs are beneficial. On the higher levels, it's a good way to keep some of the AIs from rushing you. It's also the best way to know you can trust an AI to keep an RA without DOWing.

 

[lilnev]

As has been said, never eliminate an AI completely -- besides the diplo penalty, you want to sign RAs and extract their income for the rest of the game. Never conquer a CS, again for diplo reasons. Look for triangle DoFs. I generally accept the first one or two as long as the AI hasn't been making enemies already, then get more selective.

Figure out who the "bad guy" is, and encourage other civs to go to war. Bribing into war is in many cases extraordinarily cheap -- either bribe someone to attack the victim, or bribe the victim to attack someone. You want to be one of the dog-pilers, with shared denouncements and war allies.

Sometimes you just lose when an aggressive neighbor comes at you early, with all their early bonuses. It sucks. But if you can make it to the mid-game you should be able to mostly manage diplomacy -- perhaps a few unwelcome defensive wars, but once you're established they're not too expensive, and you can eventually bribe in more allies and turn the tide. Late game, if you're winning, friends will turn on you. That keeps it interesting, but they're seldom a military threat at that point. It's more a question of whether you can steamroll the remaining opposition before someone goes space or cultural. If possible, take down your biggest opponents in the mid-game rather than leaving them til last.

 

[qemist]

My favorite allies are warmongers who are far enough away from me not to covet my land. They are the ones who will be willing to jump in on wars against other AIs for cheap. Genghis is my favorite, he seems to be very loyal if you get him allied like this.

This has worked for me with Monty and Alex as allies.

I also agree selective DOFs are beneficial. On the higher levels, it's a good way to keep some of the AIs from rushing you. It's also the best way to know you can trust an AI to keep an RA without DOWing.

With non-friends it seems like a request for an RA is often a precursor to a DOW. Whether this is an attempt at Machievellianism or just bad programming I don't know. Another frustrating AI habit is the DOW just before an RA matures. Napoleon did it twice before I got jack of him. I didn't leave any cities unconquered.