Was Civ IV combat broken and not Civ V?

[troytheface]

good post there op

the combat structure will save the game and place into good standing in the long run

it is superior

less units- no stacks

thanks

 

[CornPlanter]

good post there op

the combat structure will save the game and place into good standing in the long run

it is superior

less units- no stacks

thanks

What about all these Attacko writings, have they became outdated now with the new combat system?

 

[Fistalis]

good post there op

the combat structure will save the game and place into good standing in the long run

it is superior

less units- no stacks

thanks

Naw on higher lvls the AI still gets huge production bonuses. Its just changed over to Blob of Death instead of stack.

Spoiler :

 

[KAuss]

What about all these Attacko writings, have they became outdated now with the new combat system?

I think the best way to word this point I'm trying to make is, if you cannot see the combat structure to be superior in Civ V vs Civ IV assuming AI will get smarter (which it can, I mean it's just breaking down what we think in our heads into code)... Then there's the issue...

Before Civ V, we had no choice but to accept the way Civ IV's combat engine was...

Does it make sense in your mind that your stacks of doom had more catapults than units that should protect them?

In the old days when they did this for real, did you think the stacks they used had majority collateral damage units vs foot soldiers? How does the ratio look?

Not saying Civ V in it's current state mimic this well eitiher, BUT it has the potential to... I know that when I war now, 1 or 2 siege units usually will be ample, and you want at least one more melee than you have bows on offense...

Defense it's purely bow advantage, especially longbows... THIS makes perfect sense...

Just imagine the meta game of Civ V to be that of Civ IV, with Civ V combat in Civ IV, and that's the game I wished Civ V was...

I'm sure you did too to an extent...

 

[KAuss]

Naw on higher lvls the AI still gets huge production bonuses. Its just changed over to Blob of Death instead of stack.

Spoiler :

See even I can agree that's broken...

In IV, it just looks like ONE unit, just to hide the obvious LOL...

 

[Bad Brett]

It's obvious you haven't played the game much. There are many ways to stop it. From the politics (making the AI send it's stack to kill someone else), to siege units with collateral damage.

Or you could combine civics, barracks, stables and stack up great leaders in a city and produce combat IV units rather early in the game. A few combat IV knights will take out almost everything, including elephants and pikemen. In one of my latest game, Shaka sent two SoD my way. I was playing as Cyrus and built combat V knights at the time (15 strength). 4-5 of these plus a couple of elephants were enough to completely slaughter his armies. After that, I sent some trebs that way and conquered him. And all of the time I was fighting a huge war with another AI.

...And this is exactly what I loved about Civ IV. You could choose the Imp trait, build the great wall, lure the enemy within your borders and then enjoy the benefit om producing tons of GG's. Stack them up in your best production city, and the AI won't stand a chance.

 

[KAuss]

I love the XP rush in IV too, in V it seems harder to get because you run out of targets to fight I remember losing those super unkillable units to rather 100% fights... THAT literally made me rage quit a few times LOL...

You always want your XP monger unit to get the kill, but man that 1HP archer done me in

 

[Bad Brett]

Naw on higher lvls the AI still gets huge production bonuses. Its just changed over to Blob of Death instead of stack.

Spoiler :

Hahaha... That is so stupid. Every tile is covered with combat units. You can't even see the terrain.

 

[KAuss]

I wonder how awesome it is to start nuking that map lol...

Is nuke a one tile bomb? Never used one yet... Does it do AOE?

 

[fantsu]

Well, deity games are broken in V.

 

[KAuss]

Funny thing is you can probably still beat them with 4 units LOL...

 

[Thoras]

Naw on higher lvls the AI still gets huge production bonuses. Its just changed over to Blob of Death instead of stack.

Spoiler :

It's so freaking awesome!!

Yes, but this blob of death cannot attack, no way

 

[Generals3]

I wonder how awesome it is to start nuking that map lol...

Is nuke a one tile bomb? Never used one yet... Does it do AOE?

If i remember correctly Nuclear Bombs have a 1 tile Blast radious and Nuclear Missiles 2 tile .

 

[vranasm]

I wonder how awesome it is to start nuking that map lol...

Is nuke a one tile bomb? Never used one yet... Does it do AOE?

it should be 2 tiles AOE from what I can remember...

 

[KAuss]

2 tiles radius right?

Man that map is just asking for it then ahaha, It's like dropping a new city on top of the units with a 2 tile radius bomb hahah

 

[Thoras]

Btw Nice post OP.

I like the ZoC too. When you come to think of it, it's crucial with the 1upt and ranged attacks or else you'll find people kamikazing like hell to destroy the archers or other artilleries at the back.

About the discussion whith horsemen running into spearman. I guess the SoD emulated the reaction of the general on the battlefield. It took away the "tactical" choice then.
Personnaly I was pretty bored with that system, and never really played for domination.

I read that some have the feeling that civ V is only tactical and not strategical, but I can't agree with that. You still have the possibility to build the units you want to supply your battlefield, and play it anyway you like. I just finished a cultural vic with Ghandi with a very few warmongering.

My problem is : I found warmongering boring in civ IV because of the SoD (and the horrible archer vs tank), but in civ V it's the AI that bores me during a fight. I guess, if I want to go in a nice fight, well I'll head to MP, which I never felt was necessary in civ IV. Now Is it a bad thing? Yes, atm the MP is not optimum, but I still have a lot to discover in civ V.

cheers, Thoras

 

[KAuss]

Biggie ups to you mah brotha!

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Naw on higher lvls the AI still gets huge production bonuses. Its just changed over to Blob of Death instead of stack.

Spoiler :

I estimate 18 nukes will kill almost all of those guys, and devastate the Chinese empire.

 

[r_rolo1]

It looks like half of this threads posts are completely and absolutely wrong

Civ IV favours MUCH more the defense that civ V ... simply ( but not only, not by far ) because most units in civ IV move 1 tile/turn in enemy land + roads that cost nothing. Unless you are in a cramped border city you have more than time to reinforce your troops and you have much more tactical liberty in what to do ( the offender has pretty much to stick to defensive terrain if possible and march from city to city ). More, the simple fact that you can stack units favours much more the defense than the atack ... and the very nature of civ Iv combat mechanics favours heavily the defender.

Things only look the other way around because people are used to fight against brain dead AI that have 0 tactical thought and because of that, were coded to stick a handfull of defenders in every city + a mega-ultra-giga SoD as reserve force. Clean the SoD and what you have is 3-4 units per city that will not regroup or run away and that will wait until you turn the cities in negative defense land ( bombing + CR troops ) ... fight against more competent oponents in civ IV is far diferent

What you can say with absolute certain is that the anti SoD mechanisms in civ IV failed completely in doing that, much by fault of the devs having put a hard limit in how many units you can collateral damage + siege imuniity to collateral damage from other siege ( even with that half-baked attemt of using the flanking ability for a mock up of that in BtS ). Both of them made the SoD with a lot of siege a clear winner over everything else, including the desired mutiple stacks solutions that soren talks about in Civ IV manual.

Now on civ V, yup has potential for more, but it can also bork because of a similar minor detail. So, I'll reserve my opinion for the future, maybe a year in the future or so

 

[Thoras]

It looks like half of this threads posts are completely and absolutely wrong

An useless aggressive start, the OP stated at the beginning that the Civ IV AI is bad at warfare too, thus it was in favor of attacking. You just somewhat went in his direction. I did not see many people disagreeing with the idea that the civ IV AI was no good at warfare either.