Washington traded only Monarchy, cannot understand why

[gavenkoa]

I'm with Washington on an island. I gifted him some resources so to T100 we have +4-2 = +2 relations.

After the Currency I can sell him techs but the only tech he is willing to trade is Monarchy.

I'm upset I have to self-tech Metal Casting / Iron Working / Calendar to get to the Optics to break "isolation".

I read https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/page-3#post-11931834 but cannot understand why the only thing.

I keep him as he built 3 wonders and provides trade routes. In ~600AD he declared a war on me while I on the way to Optic.

It looks like after the initial expansion I had to conquer his land and enjoy 3 wonders...

He didn't manage to get religion, it is a negative factor?

 

[Fippy]

They don't trade techs if they know just you

"Will trade techs that don't unlock units or buildings to human when 30% of the other AIs also know the tech"

Only Mansa trades everything in semi-iso.
For others you need friendly (no difference between pleased and cautious).

You got Monarchy from him cos it's part of a couple techs without code restrictions (and can always be traded for).
Some others are Alpha, Mono and i think PP.

(thread should prolly be in S&T)

 

[gavenkoa]

So it is semi-isolation, OK. I get it

"Will trade techs that don't unlock units or buildings to human when 30% of the other AIs also know the tech"

I have hard time understanding it.

Does it mean that AI opens trade for Monarchy/Alphabet/Monotheism when 30% of AI (even we haven't met them) know it? Or limit is for building/military/wonder enabling tech?

Reading the first page of "Know Your Enemy" I think I start to understand: in the previous games I was at the bottom of score board so AIs trade with me. In the current game I'm not in the bottom so need to bring my neighbor to Friendly or war vassal him.

Is there a good reading on semi-isolation? It looks like instead of wasting time on AI pleasing it is better to concentrate on breaking of semi-isolation as your neighbor AI is a poor trade partner.

 

[Fippy]

Mona, Alpha etc have 0% so AIs trade even if only themselves have it.
(unless you are blocked by being worst enemy, or we just don't like you enough)
Those are exceptions.

30% goes for most other techs (in case of Wash, others have different % values but you can see them all in know your enemy).
But let's translate that into something simpler: Wash knows you and 3 other AIs. 1 of them has let's say IW. He will now trade IW to you (33% known).
So 30% makes him a good "partner". Many other AIs wouldn't trade yet.

Scoreboard is irrelevant for tech trading, you can safely forget that part.
Other stuff that matters is for example how many techs you received via trade before (we fear you are becoming too advanced). Trading for cheap / not really needed techs can be a mistake.
Or if they started wonder building with that tech (we have our reasons).
Or if it's considered an important military tech (construction often won't be offered by some AIs even with the known % number condition met).

In semi-iso reaching pleased with an AI makes you safer.
Putting more energy into diplo only pays off if you can reach friendly.
Traderoutes remain benefical in this situation, and exchanging resources too ofc.

 

[gavenkoa]

But let's translate that into something simpler: Wash knows you and 3 other AIs. 1 of them has let's say IW. He will now trade IW to you (33% known).

Just to be on the same line: in my game Wash knows only me, I don't get IW from Wash because there is no other AIs. Second AI known to Wash with IW will change the situation: it is like 100% level with 30% threshold.

So sharing the land in 1 AI only is unfavorable situation but with 2 AIs it is cool as you automatically pass any threshold as with other AI learn a tech it results in 100%. With 3 AIs it is 50%, with 4 AIs it is 33%, with 5 AIs it is 25%...

 

[Pangaea]

You got Monarchy from him cos it's part of a couple techs without code restrictions (and can always be traded for).
Some others are Alpha, Mono and i think PP.

Code divers can probably rectify, but I don't think these other techs have code restrictions in that sense. But it's rather that they don't unlock (military) units or buildings or wonders. These things add a 'value' to the tech, and likewise with some military techs. Monarchy for example doesn't add anything like that, so will always be traded. Once a wonder has been built for example, you are more likely to be able to get the tech (if not locked out previous due to "we have our reasons"), because the value of the tech goes down due to the wonder being 'gone'.

However, the main thing to keep in mind is the "percentage known" required that was talked about, and which is mentioned in the "Know Your Enemy" guide.

I forget the exact mechanism of this, but sometimes you will suddenly be able to trade again if you are in the lower end of the scoreboard (think the relevant AI must be there too), if you otherwise would have been locked out due to "we think you are too advanced". The surest thing is to be on friendly terms. Then you will always get trades, unless they are building a wonder (we have our reasons). Possibly some late game techs are untradable too, like space parts techs. I'm not sure about those, as the AIs are usually way behind at that stage of the game (unless on Deity, hah), so trading for those techs isn't an option. I suppose that is where the "we'd rather win the game" excuse comes from.

 

[Fippy]

Yup you are right, i never realized all other techs unlock one of those 3
So they also trade RP, and some early ones like Agri or AH.