Way to go, Firaxis! 18 great civs!!!
- Thread starter Mad Hab
- Start date
Tomoyo
Fate
Babylon out is the only thing that really bothers me at all, but I can live with it.
T100
Truly Sick in the head!
Ah, what good was Babylon anyway?
Xineoph
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2004
- Messages
- 339
It was there, that Abraham, father of Monotheism and the Hebrews was born...
well technically the father of the hebrews was Eber....but that's beside the point.
In any case, i'm still sad Israel/Hebrew's aren't in.
Hopefully one day, differences will be put aside, and they can finally be put in as a Civ.
In the mean time, we always have the modders. ;p
well technically the father of the hebrews was Eber....but that's beside the point.
In any case, i'm still sad Israel/Hebrew's aren't in.
Hopefully one day, differences will be put aside, and they can finally be put in as a Civ.
In the mean time, we always have the modders. ;p
Greek Stud
Prince
I think if Greece is in the leaders will be: Agamemnon and Pericles, since all the Slavic Macedonia stuff has been on the news lately
Greek Stud
Prince
Israel
Assyria
Ethiopia
Babylonia or Chaldeans
They all need to be in.
And Zoroastrianism needs to be a religion. And so does Paganism.
Assyria
Ethiopia
Babylonia or Chaldeans
They all need to be in.
And Zoroastrianism needs to be a religion. And so does Paganism.
? Pericles should definately be the Greek leader.Greek Stud
Prince
because he spread Hellenism
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
Alexander the Great makes perfect sense. He was Macedonian rather than from the city-states, but he was still a Greek ruler, and Greece reached its pinnacle of strength under him.
(Arguably the Greeks reached their pinnacle of strength under Heraclius during the Byzantine Empire shortly before the Muslims burst out of the desert, but the Byzantine Empire of the time was a hazy part-Roman part-Greek, part-Christian Empire with no real sense of self.)
(Arguably the Greeks reached their pinnacle of strength under Heraclius during the Byzantine Empire shortly before the Muslims burst out of the desert, but the Byzantine Empire of the time was a hazy part-Roman part-Greek, part-Christian Empire with no real sense of self.)
Dolemitetornado
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Messages
- 33
INDIA!!!!!!! Oh, cm'on man! Indias been like a fifth of the world population for its entire history, it created two major world religions, has been (and will again be?) an economic superpower, and not to mention their mathamaticians were the ones who invented "0" so we COULDN'T EVEN HAVE COMPUTERS to play civ on without the Indians! Man, this would be like leaving out Europe altogether from the game man, please....Avayaman said:
CTH
Prince
Alexander the Great, is a bit like Napoleon and Stalin and Hitler. He ruled greece but was macadonian. But his father wanted him to be a greek so he was lectured as a greek, and he used greek millitary in his conquest. IMHO it is no doubt that he sould be one of greeks leaders. Should he not be in the game? He is one of acient times great leaders, and could easy be connected to a civ.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
I'd like to request from posters, to search more before saying that Alexander the Great wasn't Greek/or of Greek origin - thank you.
mitsho
Deity
@King Alexander It depends on the definition, it is clear that you as a modern Greek say, he was greek. Because the ancient territory of Macedonia is now modern Greek territory.
The interesting question is, what the 'Greeks' of the time would think/say...
I'm not the one to judge it, and honestly, I do not care. Is nationality really that important? Even if Alexander hadn't been (ethnically or culturally) Greek, he still is one of the best Greek leaders, nobody doubts that.
mitsho
The interesting question is, what the 'Greeks' of the time would think/say...
I'm not the one to judge it, and honestly, I do not care. Is nationality really that important? Even if Alexander hadn't been (ethnically or culturally) Greek, he still is one of the best Greek leaders, nobody doubts that.
mitsho
King Alexander
Universe explorer
@mitsho: it isn't about the definition, as there isn't any such thing. What I find interesting is that, people from elsewhere in the world think they know our history better than ourselves.
Alexander spoke Greek, as his ancestors, was born by Greek parents coming from long heritage of King-families(mother Olympia and Philippus), and he ruled the Kingdom of ancient Macedonia, and NOT a city-state.
All Greeks, participated in the Olympic Games(Dorian-Greeks, Macedonian-Greeks, etc...), Games that no other people without Greek origin could participate.
Do you understand what a Kingdom means, apart from a city-state? It means that some neighboring tribes were enslaved/conquered by the Greeks back then. Of course, these enslaved people by the Greeks, spoke also their language, and some Greeks from other city-states were a bit confused(when visiting the area) when they not heard only Greek 100% of the time by some people.
As to your question about what the Greeks of the time thought: a) you know something I don't, b) to which 'Greeks' are you referring to? Do you refer to some 'specific speach' made in a city-state that sensed their 'rivals' growing power?(I know this speech, I just want to be sure). There're 'hundrends' of similar speaches -coming from almost every city-state- aiming to make 'propaganda' against their 'enemies'(the other city-states)
As to where the Kingdom of the ancient Macedonia today belongs in Greece, that's NOT correct: that Kingdom was much bigger than of what the modern region of Greek-Macedonia is. The ancient Macedonia has been divided between Greece, Bulgaria, and FYROM(or simply, 'Macedonia' as they call themselves).
Regards
KA
Alexander spoke Greek, as his ancestors, was born by Greek parents coming from long heritage of King-families(mother Olympia and Philippus), and he ruled the Kingdom of ancient Macedonia, and NOT a city-state.
All Greeks, participated in the Olympic Games(Dorian-Greeks, Macedonian-Greeks, etc...), Games that no other people without Greek origin could participate.
Do you understand what a Kingdom means, apart from a city-state? It means that some neighboring tribes were enslaved/conquered by the Greeks back then. Of course, these enslaved people by the Greeks, spoke also their language, and some Greeks from other city-states were a bit confused(when visiting the area) when they not heard only Greek 100% of the time by some people.
As to your question about what the Greeks of the time thought: a) you know something I don't, b) to which 'Greeks' are you referring to? Do you refer to some 'specific speach' made in a city-state that sensed their 'rivals' growing power?(I know this speech, I just want to be sure). There're 'hundrends' of similar speaches -coming from almost every city-state- aiming to make 'propaganda' against their 'enemies'(the other city-states)
As to where the Kingdom of the ancient Macedonia today belongs in Greece, that's NOT correct: that Kingdom was much bigger than of what the modern region of Greek-Macedonia is. The ancient Macedonia has been divided between Greece, Bulgaria, and FYROM(or simply, 'Macedonia' as they call themselves).
Regards
KA
mitsho
Deity
Well, the biggest part of ancient macedonia is in greece, that's enough. And you got me wrong, I did not say Alexander wasn't Greek (imo, he is, but imo, it doesn't matter), and I also didn't say the ancient Greeks (From Athenian Sealeague to Sparta and Thebai and their allies to the various colonies, etc. roughly I'd say) said Alexander wasn't Greek, I was just asking!
I was in fact saying, that you as a modern Greek (correct?) cannot judge if he was or not. An example: We Swiss consider ourselves Helvetians (there's a reason why our abbreviation is CH, confoederatio helvetica), but do you think we have ANY helvetian blood in us? (At least, I have certainly not, because in my region, there settled another celtic tribe). Another example in Switzerland would be the story of Tell, probably do not have to say anything more on that.
I'm sorry, but ~2300 years are just too many for you to judge correctly. To know for sure, we'd probably have to ask Alexander himself (and some other people of the time). Again, I'm not arguing pro or contra Alexander, I'm arguing against mythologizing one's past, as you seem to me to do.
m
I was in fact saying, that you as a modern Greek (correct?) cannot judge if he was or not. An example: We Swiss consider ourselves Helvetians (there's a reason why our abbreviation is CH, confoederatio helvetica), but do you think we have ANY helvetian blood in us? (At least, I have certainly not, because in my region, there settled another celtic tribe). Another example in Switzerland would be the story of Tell, probably do not have to say anything more on that.
I'm sorry, but ~2300 years are just too many for you to judge correctly. To know for sure, we'd probably have to ask Alexander himself (and some other people of the time). Again, I'm not arguing pro or contra Alexander, I'm arguing against mythologizing one's past, as you seem to me to do.
m
King Alexander
Universe explorer
I'm certainly NOT judging: I follow what the ancient Greek writers wrote about his parents, for example. It isn't something I make up into my mind.mitsho said:
One more thing I forgot: the name "Macedon"(reffering to 1 of 2 male-sons) is part of the Greek mythology, and Herodotus mention the myth( how the Greek-tribes were formed).
Aristotle was a Greek-Macedonian also(just as saying, Dorian-Greek, Ionian-Greek, Cyprus-Greek), do we now also start disputing about him?
Regards
KA
You just wont get anywhere with this debate, apart from being seen as nationalist, which i dont think you are. I guess you mean good, but really not many people care what alexander was, apart from teens who want to argue to death against one another, or some greeks for their own reasons that i dont want to judge. I think that he was greek enough to be the greek leader in civ, but i absolutely hate endless debates where people (and i dont really mean you) argue one way or the other about alexander as if their life will be better if he was 49% or 98,9% or whatever greek.
GoldEagle
Deity of All Drummers
The Ottoman Empire was the #1 Civ that I used...Mad Hab said:
*disgruntled*
King Alexander
Universe explorer
I know that I'll probably won't get anywhere with any debate I make, varwnos, no matter how much proof/evidence I show.varwnos said:
It just seems that many think that know too much about a topic and much better than people the topic concerns, without having done any extensive reading/research first, apart from what they may have accidentally heard at some point in their life.
As for the possibility of being seen as a nationalist, people that really understand what I mean/saying, judge for themselves, and frankly speaking, I don't care about any kind of 'labels'.
Regards
KA
mitsho
Deity
This talk is really interesting, and as I am really tired, I won't reply now to your latest posts. But I just want to ask you one question: Why is it so important to you, that Alexander is Greek? (If I compare it to my swiss myths and 'historical figures to be proud of', I honestly couldn't care less)
mfg m
mfg m
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