We need Beta Testers

[Kenjister]

The Alt thing probably doesn't have to do with the bug, I think it's the mix of legion and non-legion. I only had a stack of 5 so I don't think that counts as large.

It would be nice if the Southern and Chuan Soldier promotion protected from Jungle damage, after all they do have immunities to the jungle diseases.
On another note, I really like the buffs the Legion promotions recieved. Xu Huang is now worthy of his reputation. Resilient I-IV is great for cracking hill cities. (Don't even think of nerfing resilient stmartin! The defence line counters it easily!) Also, I've been finding myself promoting down the defence line frequently to counter the heroes that promote heavily down the Attack line. The AI promotion selection is a vast improvement!

I do think we're the only beta testers pretty much (english speaking), unless we have a lurker... hopefully this forum will get more activily with the 2.4 release. It's really out of the way at the moment (bottom of the list pretty much), but the mod easily ranks with FfH and RFC. I bet the mod has hordes of Chinese fans though.

Hmm, how long should it take for a new sig to appear? I just added a wonderful little HoTK promotion

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Waiting for other civilizations hang (Liu Yao monarch game).

 

[stmartin]

What promotion? I didn't see it.

I tried to select a mixed army, moving them around, group attack city, no error pop up? Must be Vista or is a bug somehow fixed. I'll let a teammate check that tomorrow.

I suppose southern solder and chuan soldier promotion already protect against swamp damage? Jungle doesn't damage unit right?

As for the popularity of this mod, I have a little something to say:

Release 2.3 English Version has 789 completed download until this moment. That's about 26 per day. Back in January and February I used to take notes on the download click from CFC data base(not completed, just click count) of well-known mods every day for about a month. FfH is the most popular, more than 200 download per day. RoM is the second, about 60-70 download per day. RFC is the third, about 40 download per day. HoTK is about the 4th or 5th one, around 30 download click per day. All the rest don't receive enough attention, each about 10 or less per day. I didn't take notes on BUG Mod, but BUG is very popular too, probably rivals RoM.

That's back in Release 1, before legion system. The strange point is, although we have introduced Legion system, the assumed selling point of the Mod, our downloading situation remains about the same.

Then I just felt like doing something else, so HoTK development pauses for a few months. In this period Civ4 get older, something new great mods come out like Mars, LoR and Dune War. Some of them are slightly more popular than HoTK in terms of downloading count. Now a month ago we release 2.3, slightly improved version, and our downloading count is still the same, slightly better in terms of unique visitors to our downloading page in Google Code.

Because of the stagnancy of popularity, I assume that quality of the Mod is not a major problem. It's the theme, the background, or accessibility. Not very many people bother to check out a Mod about ancient China if they are not interested in Chinese History in the first place. Even if they play it, but are not familiar with background, do not know the Chinese names and the heroes, they will not get the same good experience as other players. This means if we want more people to play this Mod, first we need to let them know this mod, check out this mod, and if possible, try to help players familiar themselves with the background story of HoTK.

I have some plan for that purpose. During the development of Release 2.4, we have spent many hours trying to improve the performance of the Mod. The result is great, I can safely say HoTK's speed is doubled. Some of the changes we made also apply to original BTS. So I pull those code from HoTK and made a standalone Mod, called Civ AcceleratoR, CAR Mod. I have already release that in China. In my experiment case, which is AD1000, China, Emperor, first 90 turns, the speed increase is about 15%. So when we release 2.4, we release CAR Mod at the same time. This will help more people to know the name of HoTK.

As for accessibility, we really haven't done much. Renaming unit is just a small effort. We will need to put some history, novel content, better hero biography, and some maps into civilopedia. Of course, strategy guides too. I don't think many of these will happen in Release 2.4, but I'll try.

Another thing is although HoTK seems to get some download, not very many players want to visit forums and post their ideas. That can only be my fault. I guess my disappearance several months ago plays a major part, as well as I'm not a very talkative or 'community' person. Also I'm Chinese, which is big. Well, well, so many things, so little time.

From the above you can tell I really care about HoTK's success. I love it. You guys support means big things to us, especially to me.

Do you guys have some suggestions about this popularity stuff? I'm not very much of a market guy, I can just make things.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Believe me, part of the interest in RFC is the problem-solving part with UHVs. People will post strategies and ask questions once there is something to work towards other than cultural or domination victory. (just ask blizzrd, kbk and youtien over at RFC)
I know it's hard with all the different maps, but at least you can start with the small map which is relatively easier to code for areas to control and resources, etc.

 

[Kenjister]

Another little Assert Failed:

File: CvUnitAI.cpp
Line: 12740
Expression: !atPlot(pBestPlot)
Message:


As for the popularity part of the mod, I think it's just that people very rarely seach for Chinese history mods. Fantasy is totally different, and FfH is the obvious choice for people who search for fantasy mods. Also lots of people want CIV to be more realistic on an Earth map, and they become RFC fans.

Personally, I don't think lack of knowledge in Chinese history is a barrier to the success of the mod. I downloaded it knowing nothing about the era, read up on everything in the Pedia, was then inspired to buy both books, read them in a week and then go and buy Koei's RoTK 12. Now I'm a big fan of the time period as you probably figured. People on these forums tend to love history more or less, and this mod is wonderful source of information and fun. Some people actually prefer more obscure time periods (to them) for the added pleasure.
What this mod needs is simply more publicity. We just need to get people to try downloading something new. That's why I did add a sig with a link to the download and features thread (but it isn't showing up )
Once the sig shows up, I'll probably venture out back into the main CIV forums, help out some beginners and recommend the mod a bit. Especially on those 'which mod should I play' threads that pop up every week or so...


EDIT: Another Assert Failed. Happened after I loaded a Worldbuilder save to check out Yan Baihu's random hero that started with Conqueror, Iron Wall, and Persuasive!

File: CvUnit.cpp
Line: 15053
Expression: pUnit->GetHeroType() !=NO_HERO
Message:


EDIT2: I figured out the second Assert Failed. Random Heroes don't carry over with WB saves. Oh well, guess I can't check out that totally awesome hero Yan Baihu has.

EDIT3: Well, I just tried a Lu Bu game for fun, just to see what his position was like on the map, and Xiahou Yuan surrendered to me. That was shocking to say the least. So I tried it again. Every single time I defeat him, he surrenders. However, he doesn't surrender to any other faction.

EDIT4: Another Assert Failed

File: CvUnitAI.cpp
Line: 12817
Expression: !atPlot(pBestPlot)
Message:

no clues on that one, just playing along as usual

 

[stmartin]

Believe me, part of the interest in RFC is the problem-solving part with UHVs. People will post strategies and ask questions once there is something to work towards other than cultural or domination victory. (just ask blizzrd, kbk and youtien over at RFC)
I know it's hard with all the different maps, but at least you can start with the small map which is relatively easier to code for areas to control and resources, etc.

I've been thinking about this all along, AP. I think a better way to do UHV in HoTK is to attach them to leaders, not factions. Also, a leader's UHV will vary according to the scenario's starting year. This is just a brief thought.

As to why I haven't done anything like that yet, is I believe rounding up legion system is the top priority. Also, one of the big lack of HoTK is player testing (by me). So After releasing 2.4, the next step in development is to play though each faction, trying to improve the playability of each faction, including adjusting UU, UB, UP, in this process, I will try UHV, in fact, UHV can be a focal point to each faction's playability. Hope you understand AP, and be patient.

As for the popularity part of the mod, I think it's just that people very rarely seach for Chinese history mods. Fantasy is totally different, and FfH is the obvious choice for people who search for fantasy mods. Also lots of people want CIV to be more realistic on an Earth map, and they become RFC fans.

Personally, I don't think lack of knowledge in Chinese history is a barrier to the success of the mod. I downloaded it knowing nothing about the era, read up on everything in the Pedia, was then inspired to buy both books, read them in a week and then go and buy Koei's RoTK 12. Now I'm a big fan of the time period as you probably figured. People on these forums tend to love history more or less, and this mod is wonderful source of information and fun. Some people actually prefer more obscure time periods (to them) for the added pleasure.
What this mod needs is simply more publicity. We just need to get people to try downloading something new. That's why I did add a sig with a link to the download and features thread (but it isn't showing up )
Once the sig shows up, I'll probably venture out back into the main CIV forums, help out some beginners and recommend the mod a bit. Especially on those 'which mod should I play' threads that pop up every week or so...

It's great news. I appreciate what you've done to help HOTK, kenjister.

I'll check those error messages and Xiahou Yuan's surrender case. Also, why would you check that random hero using WB? As far as I remember, WB don't show a hero's potential combat level too. A random hero's potential promotions are only determined upon each level up too, so there's essentially no way to know these things, unless you enable cheat, open python console, and find that out using python.

 

[stmartin]

Waiting for other civilizations hang (Liu Yao monarch game).

I loaded this save with the latest beta release, then immediately hit end turn button, the game runs well, the AI's turn ends normally and returns control to me. Wondering what's the problem.

@kenjister

I've discovered the cause of Xiahou Yuan surrendering case: Cao Cao don't have a capital city!!! Use WB to give Xu Chang a palace and everything should return to normal.

As for the other two !atPlot(pBestPlot) message, they are really really weird bug, fixing those is likely to be a PITA. It will requires a save game to debug the AI. Luckily it won't affect game play in any apparent manner, so I would take of those later.

 

[Kenjister]

Ah, that's great new on the hero surrendering case! I was wondering where his capital was too, I didn't know where to attack first!

I'm glad to see though that all the big bugs seem to be ironed out! Hopefully this release gets more publicity... maybe it'll get a nice spot in the Creation and Customization update on the main page this month (if we're lucky!)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I loaded this save with the latest beta release, then immediately hit end turn button, the game runs well, the AI's turn ends normally and returns control to me. Wondering what's the problem.

It's not that turn, wait till the next turn when I'm about to build the Music Bureau (that's when I can't save).

 

[stmartin]

It's not that turn, wait till the next turn when I'm about to build the Music Bureau (that's when I can't save).

I tried again, still works fine, I guess it's because I didn't replicate exactly what you did in the very turn before the bug occurs. Can you post your save game just right before you hit the end turn button before the bug happens? You mean you can't save your game right then?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Try this (all I did was to move some troops closer to the 4-unit Sun Ce stack on my iron).
Yes, I'm using vista 64bit.