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Weakest or most challenging civs

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Humanophage, Jan 22, 2018.

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Which civs are currently the weakest or most challenging? (pick 3)

  1. Amurites

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Archos

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Austrin

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Bannor

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  5. Chislev

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  6. Doviello

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  7. Elohim

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  8. Grigori

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  9. Hamstalfar

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Hippus

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Illians

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Kuriotates

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  13. Ljosalfar

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  14. Luichirp

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  15. Mechanos

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. Sheaim

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  17. Sidar

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  18. Svartalfar

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  19. Legion of D'Tesh

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  20. Other

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Pretty much yes. Adept + sidequest = :)

    Again, it just comes to show you that ALL the civs are broken, just in different ways and you have to find ways around that and counter your neighbors intelligently.
     
  2. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I didn't knew that broken aspect of Grigori... I'd have to remove them from my weakest civ list
     
  3. azatote

    azatote Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Gangrin, I don't really agree with your analysis for the Illians and Malakim as these two civs have the drawback of having a really low production, at least until you're able to build watermills. However, it is true that they are great in defense and the Malakim can rush the Altar victory more easily than other civs.
    As it was told before, many civs have OP unique features, which are roughly balanced if you compare them with each other: the Grigori with their adventurers and the sidequest (plus their cultural and GP affinity which also makes them suited for the cultural victory), the Calabim and the insane experience gain through vampire feeding, the Mazatl who get tons of food and a nice production with their jungles and swamps (and it's another civ you don't want to invade because of their defense bonuses and their unproductive lands for other civs), the Amurites for their "everyone get spells" mechanic in late game, etc.
    As for the weakest civs, here's my opinion:
    1) Dtesh
    I simply hate them. They have a very limited roster of units, their 2 strength warrior is ridiculous (its only use is as a sacrifice fodder for adepts, and even that is too weak to be really worth it), they must continuously wage war (if only on barbarians) to get slaves whereas they lack offensive units in the early game, the relatively low slave generation rate can be very frustrating in early game (if you're unlucky enough, you may wait a long time before getting your first new slaves), the population cap constrains you even when you have plenty of slaves, their fighting adepts are a good idea in theory but they're hard to XP and promote in practice, and they're weak in technology, culture and GP. To sum up, I see many weaknesses with this civ and hardly any strength.
    2) Dural
    OK, they get nice buildings which will significantly boost your culture, science and GP production, yet in my opinion it does not compensate the loss of temples, priests and most religious units (which need a temple to be trained).
    3) Chislev, Elohim, Kuriotate, Luchuirp, Sidar
    The problem with these civs is that they don't have any really powerful specific feature unlike the other civs. The Chislev attack hawks and commanders are nice but not as OP as their rivals' features. The Elohim and Sidar have useful defensive abilities (unless, for the Sidar, your enemy owns air mana), but they won't make you win the game. And the Elohim pacifist promotion is really annoying in early and mid-game, and their hero gets assassinated too easily (even when you protect him with a few monks). The Luchuirp golems are expensive and get overpowered by veterans as they cannot promote. Lastly, no victory is easy to achieve with the Kuriotates, and they are dependent on their dragon in late game.
    4) the Mekara case
    This civ is not really underpowered nor overpowered. The problem with them is that they have some insanely powerful features (the "enslave worker" spell for familiars, their incredible amount of slaves, the sluga when you know how to use them - which is definitely not my case, some powerful building effects), while being weak on other aspects (notably by lacking tier 3 - except for Iram - and 4 units; their 2-attack warrior is a significant drawback too). Consequently, they may become incredibly powerful in some situations, and really weak in others (imagine for example that they are stuck between other players whose defensive strength is sufficient to prevent them from capturing slaves, and with no barbarians nearby); and the AI does not know how to play them correctly (as for many other civs, unfortunately).
     
  4. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

    Joined:
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    Speaking of the Kuriotates, I don't know if this has been changed but in the stable version their worldspell is really weak. It's supposed to add extra culture to all your cities but its like 200 or 500 or something and that's not even a level most of the time so it's just a waste.
     
  5. legionof1

    legionof1 Chieftain

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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
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    @azatote

    1: Dtesh, yes they are undoubtedly weak before having there adept UU. However once they do they are quite powerful. Remember that every unit they have gets combat bonuses for death and shadow mana that stacks. Even with just the palace mana they get +10% and a first strike. So a binder with no promotions is an effective 5.5 with 1 first strike. Also of note is that there scouts are invisible unless they attack letting you safely explore at minimal risk to grab alot of extra goodies. Granted the play-style is afar from the norm and takes some effort to get used too. You need to be very focused on stacking/claiming mana nodes and food resources(to convert to ash). Be equally narrow with your tech, magic and recon only, and even then only sufficient tech to get the hero. But yeah a start with limited options for wars to make slaves is a big punch in the junk.

    2: Dural, yeah loss of religious units/buildings does hurt there early-mid game ability, mostly from the lack of easy happy from religion adoption. However once the can build there collages and start getting the schools the cites get pretty impressive bonus to pretty much every thing, usually more then the temples provide. Also there commander UU lets there units bypass the requirements for blitz(by granting tactics promotions) which is otherwise 5-6 promotions down the line.

    3: In no particular order
    Elohim are pretty weak but depending on map RNG they can be incredibly powerful. Some the bonuses for having the unique features in there borders are exceptional. The trick with them i find is be really aggressive with your expansion and cities. Gobble up swaths of the map with minmal defense. Oh look i got war declared while overextended. Pop world spell and buy your self 30 turns to shift your empire to spaming out units. Harass the stacks on your borders without threat the whole time. Oh and you can sacrifice your hero for another 10 turns. Get life 3 Archmage and bring him back and keep doing it. Basically be the passive aggressive *******.

    Sidar, recon units are the real power here because of the sever soul mechanic. Explore in comparative safety. Carefully managed these units can survive a whole game gaining exp the whole time. Go esus and false flag your way into power over your neighbors without being at war. But yeah weak in the face of a thinking human opponent.

    Luchirp, the power here is in quantity and not the quality. As the game progresses the golems get levels of empowerment eventually coming out of the box with +100% str. Add in the building that lets golems cast fireball and march forth the hordes. No carefully caring for a handful of powerful/experainced units here, just keep throwing freshly built decent units at the enemy and grind them to death.

    Kuirotates, actually i find them very easy to get an altar victory, or a gone to hell victory. A few very large cites can easily specialize GPs with lots of wonders due the extra tiles production. Intentionally hand the resulting super priest city to the mecurians if you find you need a more aggressive approach. Similar ****ick for gone to hell. Ramp up a mega multi wonder city with ragnarok and the veil wonder and spam units till hell consumeth the world.
     
  6. cthom

    cthom 3,011,451,295

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    plus, you can capture enemy cities and the world spell applies to them too. declare peace for some extra techs and you get 10 turns to stock your captures :)
     
  7. Dunpeal

    Dunpeal Chieftain

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    I love the dwarves and my go to civ is Khazad but they can be really challenging earlier own with emptier vault - that happiness penalty really makes me think twice about expansion and how to prioritise production!
     
  8. loubre

    loubre Chieftain

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    Are mechanos not as nuts as I thought they were? You just ignore everything else they have except for their siege weapons, and the second you get a Great Engineer to buff them up a group of three of them and a guard means an enemy city full of defenders is just gone. Like seriously, the thopters suck, the gunners, I just think suck but never used. They got next to nothing for melee. All they need is some cannons, and later game some dirigibles.

    As for weakest, D'tesh is garbage hands down isn't it. I've had games where I lucked into slaves left and right at the start of the game and they're still garbage.
     
  9. loubre

    loubre Chieftain

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    Oh, and Sidar aren't that weak. I wouldn't even really call them weak, just completely pigeonholed. You only have one way to go as Sidar, and the odds seem decent you'll be the first person to get the god of hate to smile on you. Once you have his blessing you got a defacto hero unit, and since it's recon you could have sprayed it with Elephant/Raptor/Hippogriff/Spider blood which are already the equivalent of having hero stats. If that unit gets it's hands on Orthus' axe or learns Blitz It's insanity, and Sidar already feel like they're damn near impossible to actually track down and kill their assassins what with invisibility and teleportation.
     
  10. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Quite the opposite. At least in the stable version the Mechanos are easily my favorite civ to play.

    Their melee line is unremarkable. That is true. But it is NOT bad. It's just unremarkable. You don't get haste or any of the magical buffs but you don't lose any of the units either. It's just that everything else overshadows them.

    Their ranged line on the other hand is fantastic. I have conquered continents using the basic ranged units alone. Their combination of simple combat power, bonuses and the ability to bombard makes them easily the best archers in the game.

    The standard longbow replacement, the handgunner does 1 extra ranged damage, and if that weren't enough has collateral damage. And their Archebus replacement is even better. So yea. Use them. Love them.

    Their siege weapons are again, great. Especially with their special affinity. But I honestly don't rely on them too much because again, the ranged units. But a mixed stack of those and riflemen can easily take continents.

    My preferred method is to have stacks of 8 riflemen, 1-2 cannon and a general if I can get one.


    As far as thoters go the regular kind are not amazing but the Aquilian Thopter is just hands down great if you use them right. Put simply, thopters are your scouts, flying caravels that let you map the world. But the Aquilian Thopter is raiding/skirmish cavalry that your enemy can NOT catch.

    Move them into a good position like on top a mountain or into water, somewhere where your enemy can't get to them easily and every turn just walk down, fire off how ever many ranged attacks your highly promoted blitz + mobility unit can dish out and watch those stacks or garrisons melt away.

    Than just unload a stack of units from your equally untouchable dirigibles sitting on the same mountain top and take the weakened city.


    As far as the rest go, Feris is a sniper hero which I am not terribly fond off. But Lenora and Goliath make up for it. Their cavalry line is basically average. And the Steam tanks are questionable in that I can't find a use for them given how strong my stacks of riflemen can get by the time I get it. But overall no huge complaints.

    Really the only downside to the Mechanos is the lack of variety in the late game where you are basically Napoleon marching your armies of riflemen up and down the continent beating down anyone who resists.
     
  11. loubre

    loubre Chieftain

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    You ever tried just ignoring everything and blasting with a group of siege weapons?


    Now I'm gonna try out the ranged tree on my next play.

    But, you've never tried just ignoring all troops except when needed to upgrade the guard? Mechanos siege units are already stupid, you can just completely focus on them.
     
  12. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Not really, no. I can appreciate the concept but just in terms of :hammers: used as well as tech availability spamming handgunners always made more sense to me. Sure, the organ gun comes in slightly earlier on the tech tree, but hammer vise you still have to supply infantry to go along with it to take stuff. And that (in my mind at least) adds up to more than just rushing bowyers to get handgunners. So to me artillery only gets really bloody good at howitzers. And than by the time I get to them I typically have a core of rather elite infantry to call on that basically outshines it. But I definitively do try and put as many of those in my stacks as I can build late game simply for the fun of it.
     

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