welsh or british please?
- Thread starter pontypool
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ulsterman88
4-2 Rangers rule supreme!
Me too most of my games are played as the English, I ulsually use Victoria rather than Churchill or Liz
Quotey
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Blatantly an ignorant American.
If you had read through the topic you'd have realised meant that the in- game English Empire is basically the British Empire with a few name changes. What would having the 'British Empire' in game change, other than cosmetics?
If you had read through the topic you'd have realised meant that the in- game English Empire is basically the British Empire with a few name changes. What would having the 'British Empire' in game change, other than cosmetics?
Wales ceased to be an ununited country several hundred years ago, in 1409. Since then it's been part of England (and don't start *****ing about how it's separate because it's not really is it?). There must be something seriously wrong with you if you don't think England should be part of the game. It's been a civilization for over 1200 years and has a huge amount of history to boot. It has also had a huge influence over world history in the past. The british empire accounted for around 25% of the world population at one point. Let's not forget about all those inventions made by britons, usually english. To be quite honest, I have no idea about Welsh history. I've never heard about a huge Welsh civilization conquering several countries. As far as I can see, the Welsh civilization was very small and hasn't existed for hundreds of years. Not including the American civilization would be suicide for Firaxis as it would damage the sales in the USA.pontypool said:
While I'm sure Wales must have a lot of history, it hasn't been a proper country since 1409 and I doubt it has the kind of history that England has like 1066 and the 100 years war. Infact France at one point was united with England in the same way that England and Scotland are. I really don't have a clue what Wales ever did, probably because they never really did anything.
I do however think that Queen Victoria and Winston Churchill should be moved to a new civ called the British Empire (Oh look a gap in the English civ to add William I
)Willowmound said:Ooh, time for me to butt in and pick nits!
The Angles, Saxons and Jutes were not Celtic German. That's an oxymoron. They were Germanic, which is different from being Celtic. Also, the Angles were Jutes, and Jutland being part of Denmark, proto-Vikings as it were.
All nits picked.
It was a grammatical error you plonk. it's german and celtic. two seperate ancestories.
StarWorms said:Wales ceased to be an ununited country several hundred years ago, in 1409. Since then it's been part of England (and don't start *****ing about how it's separate because it's not really is it?). There must be something seriously wrong with you if you don't think England should be part of the game. It's been a civilization for over 1200 years and has a huge amount of history to boot. It has also had a huge influence over world history in the past. The british empire accounted for around 25% of the world population at one point. Let's not forget about all those inventions made by britons, usually english. To be quite honest, I have no idea about Welsh history. I've never heard about a huge Welsh civilization conquering several countries. As far as I can see, the Welsh civilization was very small and hasn't existed for hundreds of years. Not including the American civilization would be suicide for Firaxis as it would damage the sales in the USA.
While I'm sure Wales must have a lot of history, it hasn't been a proper country since 1409 and I doubt it has the kind of history that England has like 1066 and the 100 years war. Infact France at one point was united with England in the same way that England and Scotland are. I really don't have a clue what Wales ever did, probably because they never really did anything.
I do however think that Queen Victoria and Winston Churchill should be moved to a new civ called the British Empire (Oh look a gap in the English civ to add William I
I never at any point said that wales was an independent country. And if you take the take to read my first post instead of juimping in at the end, you could make a more informed response to this thread.
In my original post I said I wanted a civilization that felt more familiar, either BRITISH or WELSH , because I consider myself british first and foremost, but failing that welsh, I cannot relate to england especially when it doesn't include any welsh cities.
your mentioning of england conquering countries is completely irrelevant, that doesn't mean they should be more or less assured a place in civilization 4 in the slightest. furthermore.. I don't really care if you know of anything "wales did" that just shows how uneducated you are, and i doubt your impressing anyone by trying to prove a point by admitting a lack of knowledge about a civilization your posting about. But just to briefly add some important things "wales did"
Well first of all theres the fact that the celts in the uk arose from wales and history seems to indicate that the heart of the celts was always in wales, then theres the fact that even though england has been conquered either totally or almost completely by the vikings , romans , angles , saxons, jutes and normans. While wales managed to hold the line against the romans for 400 hundred years (rome never completely conquered wales) not for lack of trying.
Also after rome or the vikings (not to sure which) was conquered the king of essex fled to wales and worked with wales with an underground resistance against the invaders. so we helped save the english.
When the vikings came over and pushed the last of the english to the south west in cornwall somerset and devon, the welsh helped because of their mutual enemy and at least partially saved their english asses again.
then theres the fact that england tried repeatidly to conquer scotland but failed, coincidently after annexation of wales england used welsh longbowmen and finally annexed scotland. Welsh longbowmen because "world famous"
In the 100 year war welsh archers was also used to a very large degree and helped england defeat france. England steals the longbow and trains their own (lesser renowned) longbowmen. which became the teeth of the english army.
not to mention the welsh royal family even taking the english thone on at least one occaision.
Finally read this link it lists things wales are famous for.
http://www.britannia.com/celtic/wales/facts/
Amongst many things wales are responsible for no death penalty in the uk
a welshman founded 3 of the worlds leading universities
The world's first mail order shopping began in Newtown, Wales.
The earth's highest mountain is named after a Welshman. (yeah he also was the first to climb everest)
If it wasnt for my confidence that wales has acheived far more impressive feats than what is on that list, i mean really. Discovering pi is impressive, giving it a character isnt. They might aswell add "having the fittest bird on this year's big brother".pontypool said:
I mean, look north and you get
(add my personal fav, anaesthetics)wikipedia said:
I don't know about that other stuff, but the invention of the telephone was by Alexander Graham Bell in Canada, and the discovery of insulin and the use of it as a treatment for Diabetes was made by Sir Frederick Banting and Dr. Charles Best in Canada, so I would say those are Canadian inventions/discoveries, not Scottish.
MooManof_ said:
Most Canadians are either immigrants themselves or only a few generations in as naturally born Canadians. Alexander Graham Bell never formally became a Canadian citizen but he spent most of his life there and lived and worked with Canadian colleagues. To suggest that the recognition of all Canadian inventions should be rewarded to the country where Canadians immigrated from or there parents immigrated from is absurd. If your going to do that then nothing invented in the 'Americas' besides what the native Americans invented would be considered in an invention from that country, it would all be given recognition to old world countries. That isnt right.
from
http://www.science.ca/scientists/scientistprofile.php?pID=120
"In Canada, Bell also worked on animal husbandry, designed an x-ray machine and was an author of children's books. More can be found in the Beinn Bhreagh Recorder and other documentation on the Bell Institute website. Bell never became a Canadian citizen. He became an American citizen and his family are mostly American citizens. However, his final resting place is decidedly Canadian and most of his work was conducted in Baddeck, Nova Scotia, Canada. He is, in many people's opinion, a preeminent Canadian scientist in that much of his work was done in Canada with Canadian assistants and collaborators from around the world. He is a major contributor to Canadian science."
brianshapiro
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`DG` said:
and people don't realize that psychology can trace back to scotland also. [really]. The period in scotland where there are figures like Adam Smith and David Hume is often called the 'scottish enlightenment'. there was a scottish philosopher Thomas Reid, a critic of David Hume, who was the first to use the word 'pscyhology' since ancient greece. this later influenced a french philosopher, Victor Cousin, to establish psychology as the basis of modern philosophical inquiry, and establish the field of psychology in universities. his psychology was based on metaphysics, so later psychologists who demanded empiricism rejected him; specifically the psychologists in germany. but that is how you can trace it back.
Aneurism said:
Just because he was in canada at the time is irrelevant. His passport said he was british and he said himself many times that his true home was in scotland and that he was scottish. So both officially and in his own mind he was scottish/brittish. Good effort on trying to steal a technology though
lolAs for insulin. It says on google that insulin was invented in 1922 in toronto. I don't know where the 4 inventors was born (id bet at least some was born in the uk), but regardless. at the time canada was ruled directly by britain and there was no such thing as canadian nationality, therfore canada WAS british and any research conducted was funded by the crown.
Aneurism said:
Bell settled in Boston so i would say it was a US invention.
http://www.150.si.edu/150trav/remember/amerinv.htm
box telephone
But like you said if you want to get extremly technical then yeah back then technically things weren't american inventions because we are a nation of immigrants but since it came from the United States it is considered an American invention
The stupidity of some people amazes me.I_RA said:
At the time of the invention Bell was british/scottish. And even though he "settled" in boston. As i said in a previous post, bell was recorded as saying that he would always be scottish. google it and see for yourself.
E.G if a man is extremely famous and invents hundreds of things and then at age 90 settles in a foreign country, does that country lay claim to all his inventions? don't be ridiculous.
ROFL @ your link ira. the site tries to discount the fact the telephone had been invented previously by saying the sound was "faint" this way they can say the telephone was TRUELY invented in boston where the sound was clear . omg lol
dude you are an idiot the phone is widely seen as an american invention google that you idiot google if scotland or england invented the telephone and you won't find anything google if america did and you will if he settled in boston he became an america citizen
bell even got a US patent for the telephone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_american_inventions
scroll to 1876
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_american_inventions
scroll to 1876
I_RA said:
Im afraid your the idiot. a sterotypical american with his head up his backside.
Bell was born and raised in scotland. His passport said he was british. He said himself even after he settled , that he would always be scottish. at the time of the inventions he was a british citizen. What more do you need? go flush your own head down the toilet.
ahab_in_rehab
Chieftain
The arguments starting to get a little too heated! It strikes me as absurd to say a country invented this or that, people invent things not countries. Bell invented the phone and to attribute it to scotland, canada, fiji or whaterver is misleading. Especially if you consider at that time most innovations were made with little support and more often indifference from the state they happened to be living in at the time.
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