[NFP] What are some notable change to strategy for Secret Society games?

[hhhhhh]

I just played the first half of my first ever Secret Society mode game. Since you get extra governor's title I believe the game's meta changed a bit. So what are some notable changes of strategy these bring to you?

For example the extra governor titles make a Lv. 3 (i.e. with 3 promotions) Armani/Renya/Moksha possible. So I saw some posted that one can use gold/faith to buy districts. I think that's certainly an interesting idea.

Liang's city park promotion will also be interesting for Bull Moose Teddy. That's basically breath taking appeal everywhere. Can someone pull a sub T150 SV without campus with these? (saw a T161 campus free Bull Moose Teddy SV but iirc that's without SS.)

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Aside: one has to be careful of using Moksha to buy districts if one want to buy Monumentality builder/settlers at the same time.

Let's say you got a Lv. 3 Moksha in classical era and you are already on Theocracy. Assuming you are at 17 civic (a typical number when you are about to chop Kilwa Kisiwani), then a full price district is 185 production, and faith buy with Moksha will be 314 faith. Meanwhile your 21st and 22nd builder will be 140 and 145 faith. You will get the district if you use Magnus with 1.5 chop + 32 production (102 * 1.5 + 32 = 185). Not to mention that 314 faith is almost the cost of a 290-production settler (your 9th settler). So at least on paper buying builders/settler is more economic.

But Moksha faith purchase of districts certainly has its advantage - you get it faster and since you get two governor's traveling around you don't have to wait that long. I think it's certainly an interesting direction for some master players to try. Can we make a sub T120 science victory happen? (I am aware of a T119 SV (map is selected and revealed) before NFP. But at that time you don't need 20% extra cost for advance era tech/civic and envoys are of better value, so I doubt people can re-do that without SS.)

 

[monikernemo]

My opening now is always Armani because suz - ing gives good era score and alot of scouting information. Early levy is also good for scouting and clearing barbs. 200 gold for a bunch of warriors is insane but that also means locking armani in place.
Agree on point about Moksha faith purchase; don't feel comfortable with getting Divine Architect on Moksha early since you will be competing faith income with early monumentality.

I think another strat worth discussing is delaying SS govenors to Medieval era if possible. Wouldn't delay SS govenor for Sanguine or Owls, but this can be viable for Hermetic and Voidsingers especially if one has issue finding these societies.
And maybe if one can't get voidsingers in the ancient era, one don't have to worry so much since if a delegation + printing, will unlock the society anyways.

 

[hhhhhh]

My opening now is always Armani because suz - ing gives good era score and alot of scouting information. Early levy is also good for scouting and clearing barbs. 200 gold for a bunch of warriors is insane but that also means locking armani in place.

But traveling Amani in ancient era was an existing strategy prior to NFP, right? At least that's one way to secure classical golden age. I think before NFP one way to open is Pingala 1 - Magnus 1 - Pingala 3 (so Pingala is at culture, science and x2 GPP), another way is Amani - Magnus - Pingala 3 (so he's at culture and x2 GPP).

I think in NFP levy on 3 envoys are kinda dangerous - somehow it's common for AI to get a lot envoys in a CS and they are very competitive now.

 

[cylenalag]

I think with SS, the opportunity cost with an early Amani is not as expensive as it was before NFP. Since you get 4 promotions early in addition to what you already get, you now have some wiggle room with your governor promotions.

 

[hhhhhh]

Since you get 4 promotions early in addition to what you already get

4 is an optimistic number. In my only game with NFP I only got 3 in the first 100 turns. This kind of uncertainty is definitely not something I feel comfortable to see in Civ series. But I think eventually I will be fine with that.

 

[monikernemo]

But traveling Amani in ancient era was an existing strategy prior to NFP, right? At least that's one way to secure classical golden age. I think before NFP one way to open is Pingala 1 - Magnus 1 - Pingala 3 (so Pingala is at culture, science and x2 GPP), another way is Amani - Magnus - Pingala 3 (so he's at culture and x2 GPP).

I think in NFP levy on 3 envoys are kinda dangerous - somehow it's common for AI to get a lot envoys in a CS and they are very competitive now.

I think it depends on the civ, if it is a civ that is hard to get golden age, cycling Amani is helpful, but otherwise I would usually go Pingala - Connoisseur first followed by Magnus + Provision after GP and T1 building.
I think levying early is still worth for SS (though like you pointed out, risky) since the more scouting you do early game the faster you unlock those titles. Another way is to check whether the AI has any envoys in the CS before levying.

 

[hhhhhh]

followed by Magnus + Provision after GP and T1 building.

I don't think Provision is that useful (unless you are doing a late era start, like industrial) - I'm OK with chopping settlers till the Gov Plaza city only got 2 population (usually this won't happen either, as long as your GP city have rainforests).

Classical Golden Age is also map type dependent - if it's continents then it's hard to meet a lot of civ and do circumnavigation in ancient era.

 

[Deadly Dog]

Well, for me I've settled into mostly taking Pingala with Connoisseur with any titles coming in the first 15 or 20 turns, as they speed up the 2 titles from civics. Amani is almost always an early choice but rather than promote one governor to the extreme I'm just trying to cover more bases earlier.

 

[Pietato]

Depends on the map, the start, my civ, etc. Early Amani tour is great for era points, 2 points in Magnus if I have good faith income and can secure a golden age, and Pingala to compensate for lack of science and/or culture, and to synergise with Oracle. I really want to try fast Reyna forestry management with Maori or Teddy, but I am waiting for the patch.

 

[RealHuhn]

The strength of an early Moksha is that you can use faith to never run out of district discounts. It doesn't mean you have to buy every district with faith. You just use him to stay on top of the discount race without the need to artificially limit tech progression..
If you combine him with Void singers and a strategy heavily based on appeal and Earth Goddess, it's quite game changing. I don't know if it's the best strategy for fastest SV but it certainly is a lot of fun and feels very efficient.

I'm also a big fan of Liang first. You basically get the Pyramids before you produce your first builder.

If I find a lot of city states and get first contact, Amani is also amazing to secure a classical golden age and speed up your early game scouting.

I'm not a big fan of an early Pingala. His bonuses are just so dull and boring compared to other governors and the costs of districts go up too quickly.

 

[hhhhhh]

The strength of an early Moksha is that you can use faith to never run out of district discounts.

Oh that's a very good point.

I'm also a big fan of Liang first. You basically get the Pyramids before you produce your first builder.

Interesting. So the four extra governor's title goes 1 to Liang and 4 to Moksha? (doesn't seem like you have enough title for both)

I'm not a big fan of an early Pingala.

I believe the culture one can be helpful. And x2 if you have Oracle.

 

[Ohmi]

High adjacency holy sites + Work Ethic = big production advantage early. Voidsingers help with the monument to get a situational pantheon and early if not earliest religion. Ley lines help, as does the Owls extra card slot. I like then using Magnus to chop the holy site and then make settlers.

 

[tetley]

When I have time to get back into Civ again, I will look into how I can synergize the govs with a Dark Age. Rather than try an early Amani to get a Classical GA, I like the idea of using Amani to vault me from Dark Age to Heroic. I did that pre-NFP. Although once I crack open the game again and look at the policy cards, plus see what SS can do, I might see something better. I think there's something there. I know monumentality is not exactly hard to get in a HA. Plus you really want to explore--exploration does not help you get a DA.