what are your first 10-20 moves?!?!

[Moonsinger]

I don't think Moonsinger's strategy works with raging barbs and/or AW.
Also I've seen animals wandering around very early.
A handful of turns is ok, but more is risky.

The timeline for Barbs and wild animal to appear is as follows:
4000BC ...xBC....yBC....zBC.....

I'm not sure about the number of turn between 4000BC and xBC, but if you don't settle and build your first city by xBC, game over! For example, on a dual marathon map, xBC = 3835BC. Therefore, you have up until 3850BC to build your first city. During the period between 4000BC to xBC, you won't find any barbs or wild animals. Barbs and animals don't come until after xBC. Therefore, I think you guys are worrying over nothing.

Btw, what come after yBC? This is when barb axeman starting to show up.

I can see how Moonsinger’s strategy would work in a Marathon game, with an explorer for protection. The only benefit would then be the possibility of a better city location (given that the explorer is guarding the settler). Unless Barbs are off – which is boring on Marathon (on of the great fun things on Marathon is the early military activity you have to run against the barbs – including taking several cities….). But I can see how this would be an interesting twist when playing Marathon, with barbs off.

I was talking about starting the game in the ancient age at 4000BC. Since I have never started my game in any non-ancient age, I don't know anything about starting the game with an explorer, tank and/or a spaceship. In any case, I would imagine that if you don't settle after x number of turn, your game would be over.

 

[PeteJ]

I think it is an interesting strategy worth trying. It could certainly be worth it given certain circumstances.... it could also really backfire pretty badly. I think this strategy might even work the best on Diety level since the AI settles their cities so fast. You could pick a capital that blocks the AI from a certain portion of land and makes use of resources that would usually be accounted for by the time you get another settler out.

I agree though that Marathon is the only speed that you should really consider exploring with your settler for more than 2 turns. Anything faster and you will be risking immediate defeat via Animal barbs. I don't know exactly how many turns you would have on Epic but I would be safe and settle within 2 or 3 turns.

It's also worth mentioning that you won't get any techs from huts until you settle your capital.

 

[Moonsinger]

It's also worth mentioning that you won't get any techs from huts until you settle your capital.

Thanks! That just explained it! I thought I was unlucky, but now I know why I didn't get any tech. I did get tech by settling right next to a hut, but not before settling.

 

[Moonsinger]

I think this strategy might even work the best on Diety level since the AI settles their cities so fast.

Well, if you are playing with Quechuas on Deity, imagining your starting capital in the heart the AI empires (one AI on each side of your border). You definitely don't have to worry about barbs and wild animals (since you will be surrounded by the AIs). You don't ever have to worry building any workers or settlers either. The only way to get to that beautiful promise land is that you have to risk wandering for a dozen turns or so.

 

[bitplayer]

My first twenty or so turns I usually b line towards bronzeworking. And make a complete circle around my starting city with my scout/warrior before either letting them roam around if they're a scout or sending them back to camp if they're a warrior.

Though I guess I could say my build orders arent that different. All depends on when bronzeworking comes up and if there is anything for workers to do before hand.

worker worker settler
worker settler building
scout worker etc

Of, course, if Im going for an early religion now...

 

[PeteJ]

Well, if you are playing with Quechuas on Deity, imagining your starting capital in the heart the AI empires (one AI on each side of your border). You definitely don't have to worry about barbs and wild animals (since you will be surrounded by the AIs). You don't ever have to worry building any workers or settlers either. The only way to get to that beautiful promise land is that you have to risk wandering for a dozen turns or so.

Ok I'm sold.... I have to try this right now. I've only played Diety twice and each time no more than about 1000BC. This time will be different...

I'm playing Warlords so no Combat 1 Quechas this time. I'll still do my best.

Wish me luck.

Edit: It looks like the Quechas still get the combat 1 promotion

 

[PeteJ]

So i'm assuming I should be looking for a plains hill to settle on with a plains hill forest to work in order to pump out those Quechas?

 

[1EyedKing]

My 20 first turns?
When playing Inca, I attempt to find a fellow AI with my settler/quechua and immediately settle in his close vecinity (preferably on a Plain Hill). This normally takes less than 10 turns on standard map conditions, just about the window when no animals spawn. Next, I pump 3-4 quechuas while using a 1F2H terrain, all the while bringing my beginning quechua to boot. Once I have four or five of them, I wait for the AI to finish building his worker. The next turn I attack, get his worker, and conquer his city. The first two quechuas weaken the defenders, and the next ones -usually- get the city. Otherwise, I bring more Quechuas to boot.

I proceed to build more quechuas, and sistematically wipe out the rest of the contenders. Conquest victories around 0-100 AD aren't atypical with this method.

Now, when playing other civilizations, it varies. Normally I play Elizabeth and recently Hannibal, and since they start with Mining, depending on conditions, I usually go for Worker/Worker/Settler and Bronze Working if the near resources are primary. Otherwise, I do some variation.

 

[Moonsinger]

So i'm assuming I should be looking for a plains hill to settle on with a plains hill forest to work in order to pump out those Quechas?

There is really no hurry in pumping out those quechas! Just find a best city site with food bonus (corn, rice) by a river and some hills within the 21 tiles then steal workers to farm your food bonus, build some cottage and mine. I usually take it easy and focus on growing my city to at least size 3 before I seriously pumping out Quechas. With a little bit of luck, your nearest AIs build their cities next to a gold mine, ivory, or gems. This should be your primary target. Wait until they hook up those luxury resources before capturing their cities (because you would most likely don't have the technology to hook up those resources). Good luck!

 

[Moonsinger]

My 20 first turns?
When playing Inca, I attempt to find a fellow AI with my settler/quechua and immediately settle in his close vecinity (preferably on a Plain Hill). This normally takes less than 10 turns on standard map conditions, just about the window when no animals spawn.

I concur! When playing Inca, it would be best to explore the land with the settler for up to 10 or 12 turns.

Next, I pump 3-4 quechuas while using a 1F2H terrain, all the while bringing my beginning quechua to boot. Once I have four or five of them, I wait for the AI to finish building his worker. The next turn I attack, get his worker, and conquer his city. The first two quechuas weaken the defenders, and the next ones -usually- get the city. Otherwise, I bring more Quechuas to boot.

Since the AIs start out with 2 cities, it's ok take one for yourself right away. Next time, you may want to try this:

1. Wait until his city grow to size 2, then move in to capture one of his worker.
2. Move that worker to an un-road square next to the target city
3. Next turn, an archer will come out to capture the worker (and they move the worker back into the city...so there will be 2 workers hiding inside the city waiting for you). Now, you have two choices: you can either attack the city with around 18%-26% chance of success or the archer on the field with at least 60% chance of success. I usually attack the archer on the field first, then promote my unit with cover or medic, then attack the city within a turn or two (depending how much damage I take after the first battles).

That's it! One quechua to capture 2 workers and a city. It's really easier than it sounds.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

The timeline for Barbs and wild animal to appear is as follows:
4000BC ...xBC....yBC....zBC.....

I'm not sure about the number of turn between 4000BC and xBC, but if you don't settle and build your first city by xBC, game over! For example, on a dual marathon map, xBC = 3835BC. Therefore, you have up until 3850BC to build your first city. During the period between 4000BC to xBC, you won't find any barbs or wild animals. Barbs and animals don't come until after xBC.

After trying a no-settler variant, I began to suspect that barbarian spawning was linked to your city. And if you dig into the SDK, you find that there's a twist... Animals can't spawn if the number of cities is lower than the number of players ?! Look carefully at CvGame::createAnimals....

 

[1EyedKing]

I concur! When playing Inca, it would be best to explore the land with the settler for up to 10 or 12 turns.

Don't try this in multiplayer though...

Since the AIs start out with 2 cities, it's ok take one for yourself right away. Next time, you may want to try this:

1. Wait until his city grow to size 2, then move in to capture one of his worker.
2. Move that worker to an un-road square next to the target city
3. Next turn, an archer will come out to capture the worker (and they move the worker back into the city...so there will be 2 workers hiding inside the city waiting for you). Now, you have two choices: you can either attack the city with around 18%-26% chance of success or the archer on the field with at least 60% chance of success. I usually attack the archer on the field first, then promote my unit with cover or medic, then attack the city within a turn or two (depending how much damage I take after the first battles).

That's it! One quechua to capture 2 workers and a city. It's really easier than it sounds.

Sounds sweet, I'll give it a try .

 

[Moonsinger]

After trying a no-settler variant, I began to suspect that barbarian spawning was linked to your city. And if you dig into the SDK, you find that there's a twist... Animals can't spawn if the number of cities is lower than the number of players ?! Look carefully at CvGame::createAnimals....

That's even better. Since the AI start out with 2 settlers on Deity level, this means there won't ever be any wild animals on Deity. Thanks for the info! Sorry, but I have never looked at the SDK because (1) I'm lazy, (2) I probably can't read those codes, and (3) I have retired from touching somebody else codes.

 

[Sisiutil]

Interesting, Moonsinger; this is exactly how I used to play Civ II, exploring with the settler, sometimes for several turns, to find the best city site. I may have to give it a try.

Another advantage it has is allowing you to better plan out several cities. City placement can be crucial to pulling off certain strategies, of course. Knowing what city sites are available can help you determine which strategy would be best to pursue. You can also avoid certain "mistakes" in city placement, such as being unable to found a coastal city because your capital was built too close the shoreline that you did not know was there.

The biggest disadvantage from my perspective is that huts will not pop for technologies. You could, potentially, just map out the huts for your initial units to pop after the city is founded, but of course you run the risk of the AI's units beating you to it.

On another note, following up on VoU's comment, I recall that in another thread he (or someone equally adept at making sense of the game's XML files) noted that barb military units will not attack cities until (IIRC) the number of cities on the continent is n+1, where n is the number of civs on the continent. That could also be a factor in this strategy, affecting how soon your late-founded capital really needs protection.

 

[cv431410]

the question comes down to how you get an edge when u get started, how do you guys do that? please helppp

The absolutely best start I had is to have 8 flood plains. When you have this luck, it is unbeatable. The path is obviously in this case, cottages + seeking health.

The next a few good starting positions are:

3 sea food
3 animals
3 rice/corn/...

The path is obviously in this case, slavery.

It is still a very good start to have:

2 sea food
2 animals
2 rice/corn/...
many hills

Obviously, you will adjust your path accordingly.

 

[carl corey]

The best start I've ever had was a 4 clams, 1 fish and marble (or was it stone?) on a huge fractal map, with Cathrine. That just begs using slavery. I also had no production other than the marble/stone and a few plains tiles, so turning food into hammers was a must. Needless to say I settled in place and whipped Stonehenge, the Oracle & the Pyramids! For the first time since I played Prince, and the only time so far.

 

[pigswill]

First 20 moves? Reload 20 times till I get a good start!!

But seriously its impossible to have a formula - the map dictates the start.

 

[OceansEleven]

I've been deciding a lot about it. I finally came up with mine ''/

1. Warrior - Defense
2. Something else, whatever there is, until city grows
3. Settler
4. World Wonder until grows again
5. Worker
6. Finish World Wonder
7. Depends.

More like 100 turns ^

But whatever. 20 turns is boring.

 

[Tatran]

No comment.