What Are Your Tactics for Building on Plains in CIV IV?

Gumbolt

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Victoria is a fun leader for riverside plains. Imperialist and financial. Great for flood plain starts. Great for fast expansion too.
 

Gumbolt

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Her extra health certainly works wonders for floodplains.
Playing her at present. Start had so many flood plains. Not shooting ahead on techs but up to 18 cites around 450ad. Thinking of trying a culture game but too many warmongers about. See what happens.
 

Plains-Cow

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Playing her at present. Start had so many flood plains. Not shooting ahead on techs but up to 18 cites around 450ad. Thinking of trying a culture game but too many warmongers about. See what happens.
Screenshots and more, plz. Want to follow your game.

Who's there? Map size?
 

ArchGhost

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Just quoted myself from the other thread to save some typing:
If they are non-riverside they aren't worth even looking at until CS. Better off farming green tiles that you can spare (or ones like lakeside green that are free to farm and don't necessarily need to be cottaged unless you NEED the commerce) and then whipping/running a specialist instead.

After CS use them as first priority for irrigation chains, sacrifice a riverside tile if you have to in order to start. Around this stage of the game I whip so heavily they'll never even be worked anyway since they aren't food positive, with most cities not getting above 6 before whipped down again if I'm really cranking units. Still, before workshop upgrades it's a far better use of them than they'd get otherwise.

You can workshop them after you have 2 of Caste, Guilds, or Chemistry, just like green tiles. Not really worth it until they provide at least 3 hammers, and that's pushing it. I still don't generally like them even then since the whip + green farms + mines does just as good. With all workshop upgrades they finally become good endgame tiles to work IMO, though if you don't run State Property you pretty much need Biology to offset them enough to even use in large cities due to unhealth cap.
The only thing I'll amend is that if they ARE riverside, they make low priority cottages that you can use after other FP or Grassland cottages are going already. Needing enough food surplus to offset a tile never really makes it attractive, especially when it's still low in commerce/hammer yield.

Generally, they just aren't worth touching except for irrigation chains until Biology (especially if irrigated, 4f1h is a nice tile!) or you have enough of the workshop upgrades to make them similar to/better than hills.

On Plains heavy maps I might push harder for early Biology before Assembly Line just because they can actually help grow in preparation for Factories and workshop economy.
 

Plains-Cow

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So, you guys don't take food surplus as a concept :lol: glhf
Food's only good when you know what you want to do with it. Growing onto junk/unimproved tiles is generally a waste, so what would you suggest? Slavery for as long as possible? I've had games like that turn out pretty good for me, but I play on Emperor.

Just quoted myself from the other thread to save some typing:

The only thing I'll amend is that if they ARE riverside, they make low priority cottages that you can use after other FP or Grassland cottages are going already. Needing enough food surplus to offset a tile never really makes it attractive, especially when it's still low in commerce/hammer yield.

Generally, they just aren't worth touching except for irrigation chains until Biology (especially if irrigated, 4f1h is a nice tile!) or you have enough of the workshop upgrades to make them similar to/better than hills.

On Plains heavy maps I might push harder for early Biology before Assembly Line just because they can actually help grow in preparation for Factories and workshop economy.
As long as I have tech-parity, I will always go Biology before Assembly Line because I have a preference for economy improvement. I usually win games that are war-focused by Rifling.
 

sampsa

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Food's only good when you know what you want to do with it. Growing onto junk/unimproved tiles is generally a waste, so what would you suggest? Slavery for as long as possible? I've had games like that turn out pretty good for me, but I play on Emperor.
In general, you should grow, especially in anticipation of a golden age. If your tiles are unimproved, whip workers and improve your tiles.
 

sampsa

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Some games I don't have enough GAs to justify the prep for it alone.
Not sure if I understand. Why don't you have enough GAs and how many is "enough"? If you don't grow, what do you do?

edit: I mean, growing is also very beneficial also as a war prep, to whip later. It's much better than for example whipping weak buildings just for the sake of whipping.
 
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Henrik75

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I generally only cottage plains inside capital, and very occasionally outside the capital if the city is at a high food surplus like +5-6, and on a river, and if I'm playing for a long term attack/win strategy (not a construction attack & snowball afterward)
Anywhere else it shall be farmed until I'm close to Chemistry (which shouldn't be too far from state property either), then I would start putting down workshops (by chemistry they're at least equivalent to mines).
During medieval and early renaissance, plains farms work as great filler tiles to grow onto when not whipping anything crucial, and are able to whipped away freely during warfare. By growing onto them you are not losing any food, and gaining an extra :hammers: , and they're quite decent in a golden age especially on a river.
You can make a city with 4 grassland farms and 2-3 plains farms be profitable in a cuirassier rush, if you don't whip away the core tiles it'll maintain +6 food and then can keep growing at its steady rate while working the plains farms to recover the 2-3 pop you just whipped into a cuirs.
(Note I would probably only settle a crap city like that if I had some kind of benefit to make it profitable - organized (less maintenance, cheap courthouse so the city pays for itself; or exp/ind for fast development), or just having great lighthouse and it being on the coast).
On arid map scripts you will often find cities with many plains tiles, you will most likely want to farm all of them. And yes, definitely not worth settling without a sufficient food source. (2 Flood plain tiles can also be considered a sufficient food source).
 

Plains-Cow

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Not sure if I understand. Why don't you have enough GAs and how many is "enough"? If you don't grow, what do you do?

edit: I mean, growing is also very beneficial also as a war prep, to whip later. It's much better than for example whipping weak buildings just for the sake of whipping.
I try to plan out my gameplan starting from turn 1 and while I explore. Some setups are better for Great People while others feel like they are better for focusing on whipping. If I get a Great Engineer to finish a wonder for my strat or some other person who can bulb an essential tech, I won't use them to get a Golden Age.

All-else fails, I'll draft rifles and cannons my way to winning. I did that with Sitting Bull once, and I was able to take on Emperor AI with next-gen units because I snowballed hard enough at that point over other AI and Globe City/workshop/state property/biology drafted enough to almost 1-turn in all of my cities.

My military was funded with the gold taken from captured cities and a single dedicated gold city I had lol.

I generally only cottage plains inside capital, and very occasionally outside the capital if the city is at a high food surplus like +5-6, and on a river, and if I'm playing for a long term attack/win strategy (not a construction attack & snowball afterward)
Anywhere else it shall be farmed until I'm close to Chemistry (which shouldn't be too far from state property either), then I would start putting down workshops (by chemistry they're at least equivalent to mines).
During medieval and early renaissance, plains farms work as great filler tiles to grow onto when not whipping anything crucial, and are able to whipped away freely during warfare. By growing onto them you are not losing any food, and gaining an extra :hammers: , and they're quite decent in a golden age especially on a river.
You can make a city with 4 grassland farms and 2-3 plains farms be profitable in a cuirassier rush, if you don't whip away the core tiles it'll maintain +6 food and then can keep growing at its steady rate while working the plains farms to recover the 2-3 pop you just whipped into a cuirs.
(Note I would probably only settle a crap city like that if I had some kind of benefit to make it profitable - organized (less maintenance, cheap courthouse so the city pays for itself; or exp/ind for fast development), or just having great lighthouse and it being on the coast).
On arid map scripts you will often find cities with many plains tiles, you will most likely want to farm all of them. And yes, definitely not worth settling without a sufficient food source. (2 Flood plain tiles can also be considered a sufficient food source).

Very in-depth idea of what to do with the land. I'm more familiar with cav or rush to rifles and drafting them out rather than cuir rushing. However, I've been recently falling in love with Great Merchant trade missions and the ridiculous amount of gold they bring, and I know that's a strat for researching to cuirs faster, so I might try it in a new game.

I'd have to say that workshops might just be my favorite tile improvement ever. Watermills are probably a contender, but the fact that workshops get so ridiculous even by mid-game, and the fact you can put them basically anywhere, is pretty awesome.
 

sampsa

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I try to plan out my gameplan starting from turn 1 and while I explore. Some setups are better for Great People while others feel like they are better for focusing on whipping. If I get a Great Engineer to finish a wonder for my strat or some other person who can bulb an essential tech, I won't use them to get a Golden Age.

All-else fails, I'll draft rifles and cannons my way to winning. I did that with Sitting Bull once, and I was able to take on Emperor AI with next-gen units because I snowballed hard enough at that point over other AI and Globe City/workshop/state property/biology drafted enough to almost 1-turn in all of my cities.

My military was funded with the gold taken from captured cities and a single dedicated gold city I had lol.
We are drifting very far from the actual topic. I'm not sure if you didn't understand or appreciate my answer to your question.
 

Plains-Cow

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We are drifting very far from the actual topic. I'm not sure if you didn't understand or appreciate my answer to your question.
Topic>reasoning>examples/experiences>additional data that influences decisions. I don't feel like this has drifted far at all. If you want a specific reply, cite the post # and what you want me to focus on.
 

sampsa

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Topic>reasoning>examples/experiences>additional data that influences decisions. I don't feel like this has drifted far at all. If you want a specific reply, cite the post # and what you want me to focus on.
I didn't mean the entire thread, just our recent exchange.

Why don't you have enough GAs and how many would you consider "enough" so that you would bother growing your cities? If you don't grow, what do you do? Whip buildings or whip units? Do you often consider rushing a wonder better than running a golden age? Which wonders?
 

Plains-Cow

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I didn't mean the entire thread, just our recent exchange.

Why don't you have enough GAs and how many would you consider "enough" so that you would bother growing your cities? If you don't grow, what do you do? Whip buildings or whip units? Do you often consider rushing a wonder better than running a golden age? Which wonders?
I don't get a lot of GP early if I'm going for a culture run. My ideal strat (if possible) is to get Pyramids, then use an engineer to rush-build Sistine Chapel, especially if I don't have marble. I also like to rush wonders in general rather than get Golden Ages. I really like Great Lighthouse and Colossus because I frequently find myself claiming cities along the coast after pushing as far inwards as comfortable.
 

Fippy

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Overall we need a good reason to invest worker turns into plains cottages (farming them makes little sense in most situations).
I mention that cos workers are really valuable until later in the game.
Sometimes i would take such an improvement for a couple turns, but if not for much longer it's not really worth building.

Isolation always gives good examples :)
Here growing cities beyond a certain size might be too expensive (or not even possible), now we look at river plains differently.
And we are limited in build options, city spots and what our economy can carry.
So in conclusion i'd say plains tiles "polish" or finalise city growth, until a new era begins in this example with Astro.
 

Plains-Cow

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Overall we need a good reason to invest worker turns into plains cottages (farming them makes little sense in most situations).
I mention that cos workers are really valuable until later in the game.
Sometimes i would take such an improvement for a couple turns, but if not for much longer it's not really worth building.

Isolation always gives good examples :)
Here growing cities beyond a certain size might be too expensive (or not even possible), now we look at river plains differently.
And we are limited in build options, city spots and what our economy can carry.
So in conclusion i'd say plains tiles "polish" or finalise city growth, until a new era begins in this example with Astro.
Sounds logical!
 

Gumbolt

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Without a save it's hard to tell what you are actually doing here. Spamming wonders is not a great way to learn game. If you want great people golden ages with large cities that can run 5-6+ scientists is a quick way to bulb edu/lib and other techs.

Listen to likes of Fippy and Sampsa as they both win consistently at deity.

How you manage plains tiles will not get you up to immortal level.
 

Plains-Cow

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Without a save it's hard to tell what you are actually doing here. Spamming wonders is not a great way to learn game. If you want great people golden ages with large cities that can run 5-6+ scientists is a quick way to bulb edu/lib and other techs.

Listen to likes of Fippy and Sampsa as they both win consistently at deity.

How you manage plains tiles will not get you up to immortal level.
I'm always eager to learn from veterans. I'll upload saves in the future. What's the best way to do that? The attach files button? I'm on Linux using Steam CIV IV BTS. Where do I find my saves for the forum?

I've learned most of my game from YouTube watching the current players and their talks about the meta. I can win consistently on Emperor, but Immortal is still iffy with more loosing than winning right now.

Also I do play some games for fun just to see if a wackier strategy can work at times on certain maps, but I get my sweaty tryhard on plenty when I feel like it lol
 
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