What changes u want in civ4?

uncommon words

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1
just wondering.......i dont really play that much im just getting started...even though i played like 4 hours last night...only to lose my progress when my computer froze..and i think i was around the year 1970AD. I was killing the computer too and the persians where in for a nice treat bastards .
but anyway what do you look forward to in the next version...or just would like to see in it
uncommon words
 
uncommon words said:
just wondering.......i dont really play that much im just getting started...even though i played like 4 hours last night...only to lose my progress when my computer froze..and i think i was around the year 1970AD. I was killing the computer too and the persians where in for a nice treat bastards .
but anyway what do you look forward to in the next version...or just would like to see in it
uncommon words

Welcome to the forum!
And There is a special forum just for the very same reason - to suggest what we would like to see in future versions...
You probably want to go there you will be amased seeing some ideas people have.
 
There is an autosave to help in just that situation.
 
Yes, it is in the same area as the other games. Just double click on the autosave folder. God Bless autosave :devil2:
 
self-explanatory
 

Attachments

  • DeanForum.gif
    DeanForum.gif
    53 KB · Views: 257
I want:
Improved economic model: You should pool food nationally instead of each city making its own. Production should be created in the city based on infrastructure, population and tech level instead of being made on terrain. Trade should be made by means of trade instead of being produced on tile squares.

Much better AI: For one the AI should be more goal oriented instead of just attacking opportunistic targets. It shouldn't have to cheat to win on higher difficulty. It shouldn't have warriors when it can use modern armor. AI should respect your borders.

Better Diplomacy: Be able to sell units to other civs. Actually have a reason to give cities back to their original owner, like UK, US and USSR gave France back its cities after taking them from Germany and didn't keep them. The AI should do this too not just the player. Tradable cities. More meaningful alliances.

Research: Shouldn't pay to research specific set techs but instead techs should be researched based on your civ and how you lead it (a civ at war a lot researches more ways to kill people and a civ who makes a lot of temples would get cathedrals earlier) Elimination of tech trading and instead put in a system where if another civ has a tech you get it in time, faster if you are close to that civ and interact with it a lot and you don't get it at all if you didn't contact them, are very far from them or have almost no contact with them.

Other: Culture groups should play a much larger role.

This is all I can think of right now, I'll post more when I think of more.
 
there should be a new "job" for each citizen - worker produces 1 or 2 shields per turn, like the way that tax collectors get you money now.
 
maybe they could make money too and building temples, factories and such produce more jobs.
 
[fanboy response]
What changes do I want in Civ4? This answer sums it up: Whatever Sid Meier decides to do is what I'm sure I will like best. IMHO, Meier has never made a bad design decision with the Civ series. He will bake the cake, and I will eat it gladly.
[/fanboy response]

Of course, there's the matter of choosing flavor and frosting for that Civ4 cake... :mischief:
  • Naturally, the AI in Civ4 should be stronger than ever. In the entire Civ series, difficulty has been a measure of the players' handicaps. I would rather see difficulty as a measure of the AIs' reasoning ability.
  • Be sure to create patches that destroy exploits like Moonsinger's warrior settlers.
  • Make the game playable in a window, for the sake of multitasking gamers.
  • I don't want to see any more pop-ups, except to confirm questionable orders. A list of recent events, updated every turn, would be better. You could call it the report of the Current Events Advisor.
  • As Civ3 is right now, most of the useful facts about your rivals must be found on the negotiation screen, which forces the player to click many times to read everything. Make important data on rival Civs accessible from the Foreign Advisor.

Many of these ideas are not my own, but I thought they were great, so I listed them.
 
Myzenium said:
[fanboy response]
What changes do I want in Civ4? This answer sums it up: Whatever Sid Meier decides to do is what I'm sure I will like best. IMHO, Meier has never made a bad design decision with the Civ series. He will bake the cake, and I will eat it gladly.
[/fanboy response]

Of course, there's the matter of choosing flavor and frosting for that Civ4 cake... :mischief:
  • Naturally, the AI in Civ4 should be stronger than ever. In the entire Civ series, difficulty has been a measure of the players' handicaps. I would rather see difficulty as a measure of the AIs' reasoning ability.
  • Be sure to create patches that destroy exploits like Moonsinger's warrior settlers.
  • Make the game playable in a window, for the sake of multitasking gamers.
  • I don't want to see any more pop-ups, except to confirm questionable orders. A list of recent events, updated every turn, would be better. You could call it the report of the Current Events Advisor.
  • As Civ3 is right now, most of the useful facts about your rivals must be found on the negotiation screen, which forces the player to click many times to read everything. Make important data on rival Civs accessible from the Foreign Advisor.
Many of these ideas are not my own, but I thought they were great, so I listed them.
Moonsinger's How to use artillery effectively... is not an exploit, it is a strategy. If every strategy that exploits the AI's lack of willingness to do the same is cancelled, you might as well just automate the entire game, and not be allowed to make any choices about what to do or where to do it.
You don't want to use the "exploit", fine. Don't go ruining the game for others, just because you disapprove of certain tactics. This sort of thinking could cause the ability to save games to disappear because of people reloading the game to get past an error in judgement, or a case of bad luck.

If you want to have access to other programs other than Civ, start a program before starting Civ, and then hit [Alt] + [Tab] to switch between them.
I use a text file to keep track of things to monitor, and have handy tables available for reference while playing. If I choose to activate another program, all I have to do is hit the Windows Icon key, and activate the program, using [Alt] + [Tab] to switch between them. No need to add to the size of the Civ game to do the same thing.

Tweaking the AI is something that is always a part of a sequel, but if you're talking about making even the easy mode more challenging, then that would deter new players from playing the game, and those who bought the new game would discourage others from buying the game, reducing the amount of money that Firaxis would make, which would subsequently reduce the amount of money invested in further sequels while driving the price of said sequels higher, making these games hader to turn a profit from due to loss of customers that couldn't afford the higher priced games.

I like the idea of having a list of announcements to refer to - sometimes I can't keep track of who did what to whom - but the pop-up announcements help break up the monotony of the half hour or so it takes to run through the AI's turns. This should at least be an option toggle, for those who like the feature.
I don't like having to refer to a separate screen each turn to see what the deal is with each civ, though. I find it far more convenient to click through the foreign advisor's comments, when confronting a rival in the negotiation screen, than to log out of the negotian screen, dig up the foreign advisor, read the data, log out of the foreign advisor, go back to negotiation, and try to remember the reason I checked with the advisor in the first place long enough to conduct the negotiation to a conclusion.
Plus the fact that when your rival contacts you, you can't access the foreign advisor at all and are force to rely on your memory to remember what the heck is going on with this particular rival and what you have going on with other rivals that may effect your decisions with the rival that has just contacted you.

Clear as mud? I hope not.
 
Lee1026 said:
there should be a new "job" for each citizen - worker produces 1 or 2 shields per turn, like the way that tax collectors get you money now.

Already there.

With the advent of some tech in the industrial age (can't recall one at the moment) you can turn a citizen into a guy who will give you 2 sheilds.
 
we should have two different chooses so you can build like a military unit and a improvement\wonder
 
I havn't noticed a guy that can give you 2 sheilds. and believe me I looked hard for it. if it mattered i'm playing ptw.
 
It's in C3C. It's called the Civil Engineer. One of the best new additions as the shields are unaffected by corruption.
 
Hi, Denarr. :cool: I see you've visited the school of oneupmanship at least once. Here's my response:

Moonsinger's How to use artillery effectively... is not an exploit, it is a strategy. If every strategy that exploits the AI's lack of willingness to do the same is cancelled, you might as well just automate the entire game, and not be allowed to make any choices about what to do or where to do it.
You don't want to use the "exploit", fine. Don't go ruining the game for others, just because you disapprove of certain tactics. This sort of thinking could cause the ability to save games to disappear because of people reloading the game to get past an error in judgement, or a case of bad luck.

Whoa-hoh, hold the phone. Who was the guy that told you that I'm here to ruin Civ4? :p Exploit, strategy, call it what you want. This fact remains: Moonsinger's warrior settlers can be used in multiplayer games. Let me spell out an example, so there's no confusion.

You have played a PBEM with three friends over a period of four months. You have enjoyed yourself thoroughly all this time, when your rival friend pulls a warrior settler trick on you. You lose control of half your empire in the space of one turn, and there wasn't anything you could have done to prevent it. Retaliation? Since your military was demolished, that's impossible. You quit in frustration.

If I wanted to make you look bad, I could do it easily. I choose not to do that because I know we are working to the same goal, which is to make Civ4 the best turn-based strategy game that it can be. We're on the same side, so there's no need to put a dunce cap on your friend. :nono: Of course, I realize that some people live to make others seem stupid. I can play that game too.

If you want to have access to other programs other than Civ, start a program before starting Civ, and then hit [Alt] + [Tab] to switch between them.
I use a text file to keep track of things to monitor, and have handy tables available for reference while playing. If I choose to activate another program, all I have to do is hit the Windows Icon key, and activate the program, using [Alt] + [Tab] to switch between them. No need to add to the size of the Civ game to do the same thing.

I know very well about Alt + Tab, and I use it when playing Civ3 every time. However, I like the convenience that a large monitor affords, being able to see all my open applications without wasting keystrokes. What's the use of having a high-res monitor when you're forced into 1024x768? Many existing PC games have a windowed mode. Civ4 should have it too.

Tweaking the AI is something that is always a part of a sequel, but if you're talking about making even the easy mode more challenging, then that would deter new players from playing the game, and those who bought the new game would discourage others from buying the game, reducing the amount of money that Firaxis would make, which would subsequently reduce the amount of money invested in further sequels while driving the price of said sequels higher, making these games hader to turn a profit from due to loss of customers that couldn't afford the higher priced games.

I'm not saying "make even the easy mode more challenging", far from it. Let me rephrase my statement:

There are eight gradations of difficulty in C3C (Chieftain, Warlord, etc.) and all of them rely on handicapping your tribe and your rival AIs' tribes. Personally, I hate handicaps in all forms, but it's a necessary evil in a popular game like Civ. I would prefer cogitating handicaps for the AI instead of handicaps in terms of production, research, starting position, starting units, etc.

I envision Civ4 having AI so flexible, you can tweak your rivals' stupidity or intelligence in game setup. Of course, that's only a dream. :shakehead (Now I will use a word that I hate seeing in this forum, but there's no better word... :rolleyes: ) A more realistic vision would have difficulty defined as a rational handicap applied to your AI rivals. Higher difficulty makes your rivals smarter, while lower difficulty makes them stupider. IOW, difficulty is directly proportional to your rivals' intelligence. Five gradations, eight gradations, any quantity is okay with me.

There, I hope that misunderstanding is done.

I don't like having to refer to a separate screen each turn to see what the deal is with each civ, though. I find it far more convenient to click through the foreign advisor's comments, when confronting a rival in the negotiation screen, than to log out of the negotian screen, dig up the foreign advisor, read the data, log out of the foreign advisor, go back to negotiation, and try to remember the reason I checked with the advisor in the first place long enough to conduct the negotiation to a conclusion.
Plus the fact that when your rival contacts you, you can't access the foreign advisor at all and are force to rely on your memory to remember what the heck is going on with this particular rival and what you have going on with other rivals that may effect your decisions with the rival that has just contacted you.

Another misunderstanding. That's the trouble with being brief in a forum. Of course, making long posts like this one isn't good either. :crazyeye: But you wanted to know what I was thinking.

The "useful facts" in Civ3 that can only be found in the negotiation screen are threefold: gold in rival's treasury, tradable techs, and quantity of rival's cities. I like to know all these facts before I initiate negotiations. If the Foreign Advisor offered up this information with a single mouse click, I would be very happy. I don't mind repeatedly clicking the Civ3 negotiation screen half as much when my rival comes to me with a deal.

Gathering simple facts like the three listed ones is a diplomat's job, an advisor's job. I want unnecessary clicking to be a thing of past Civ games. Interface should be intuitive, and this idea helps make that dream possible.

Thanks for your honest criticism, Denarr. :) I hope you more clearly understand my point of view now.
 
sealman said:
Already there.

With the advent of some tech in the industrial age (can't recall one at the moment) you can turn a citizen into a guy who will give you 2 sheilds.

This isn't good enough. For one to have a citizen produce shields you should have to have a factory at least. Also, it isn't really a job it just makes shields if they made a job system then that factory would not only make shields but also boost your economy by employing your people. It wouldn't be a set amount of shields either, if you have a factory a citizen makes 2 shields and if you also have a powerplant then a citizen makes 3 shields, etc. Instead of producing production and trade on the land citizens would have jobs in the city and this would fuel your economy and production. Economy would also be enhanced by trading. Instead of havine any and all roads produce 1 wealth, a system could keep track of what roads are used for trade and have those roads gain wealth because they are in use. The more trade occuring on the road the more wealth in generates and if a road isn't used it generates 0 wealth. Trade would also generate wealth by itself not just by means of roads. To do this in a balanced way it may be necessary to quantitate luxuries and resources, meaning that 1 source of a luxury/resource may not supply your whole civilization with that luxury/resource. Instead of making it so that 1 source of wine would supply your entire civilization you make need y wine for each city. Y could be based on how many citizens you have in that city. Let us put this hypothetically, you are playing as Germany and your nearest neighbors are the Romans; it is the start of the game. Your settler founds Berlin and you que a warrior first thing. When he is made you send him to explore and after some time you discover a source of spices and a source of wine but the wine is closer so you go for that first. By the time you have made your next sttler the Romans already got the spices though so you send your settler to make a city, Leipzig, next to the wine. Luckily you get the wine before the Romans and it is a source of say 11 wine. You have 4 citizens in Berlin and 1 in Leipzig so they need a total of 5 wine meaning that you have 6 wine left. You build a road over to the nearest Roman city so you can trade. Instead of setting up the trade all you do is click yes on a popup that asks you if you want to open up your borders for trade with Rome. If you click yes then Leipzig will start trading automatically with Rome for the spices and the governor or merchant or whatever in Leipzig will automatically try to trade enough wine to get spices for everyone in your civilization. A deal is set up to trade 5 wine for 5 spices if Rome didn't have spices then it might be 5 wine for j amount of gold. The road between your civilizations is used a bit now so it starts creating wealth and the trading itself creates wealth for the Roman city and Leipzig because of the trade occuring. It could even be made so that it creates wealth before you trade with Rome, maybe Leipzig could trade wines to Berlin for something it has. Hopefully Firaxis could improve on this system if they use it, mine is just a rought sketch of an idea.

I had another relevant thought but I forgot it so I'll post it later if I remember it again.
 
Myzenium said:
Hi, Denarr. :cool: I see you've visited the school of oneupmanship at least once.
...
Thanks for your honest criticism, Denarr. :) I hope you more clearly understand my point of view now.
:lol: School of oneupmanship... :lol: Yeah, but they kept kicking me out...something about having an attitude problem... ;)

In brief:
I didn't mean you, personally, ruining the game, I meant a general ruining of the game.

The exploit/strategy would definitely be a serious problem in a Multiplayer.
I think that if a person managed to get that many units prepared for a run through someone's nation, the game has pretty much been lost for whomever he was attacking, anyway.

It is an evil sort of trick, but it is a trick that seems realistic. If the guy's got the ability to pull it off, I don't see that preventing a city-planting will do more than delay the upcoming stomping that is on its way.

As for making me look bad...that wasn't really my intention, but you really got me wondering how you would have done that without attacking or flaming. If you're bored, you have my permission to PM me the 'reaming', just to satisfy my curiousity. ;)

I hadn't thought about a resizeable window... I've had a few times when I would have liked to do that. Even with a normal sized monitor. I like the idea.

I agree that adjusting handicaps or giving bonuses is a cheesy way to adjust the difficulty level. Having it apply to the decision tree makes more sense, but it requires the addition of much code, and sometimes it's exceptionally difficult to program for 'smarter' AI.

I would prefer that the difficulty level applied to AI rather than personal ability, because it would require an improvement in skill to win at the higher difficulty levels, instead of a retraining in the game that handicapping demands.

The option to consult your advisors before conducting negotiations when a rival initiates contact was one of the things I missed from Civ 2.

I can't imagine a real diplomat accepting a blind meeting, so I think having the option to check with your advisors before accepting a meeting with a rival would be a good idea.

I also hate going into a meeting without having a chance to assess the current situation. As it is I've had to keep a separate text document on the situation just so I could have more at hand than the paltry information that is offered by the advisor in the negotiation screen. And it's a royal pain to update the document every turn, so my data isn't always current.

Thanks for responding in more detail. I appears that I did indeed misinterpret the meaning of your suggestions.
 
I am constantly checking all the other civs to see if I can do any useful trades. This means clicking the D for diplomacy, picking the civ, little circle, "i would like to trade," checking the trades, "thats all". Then repeat the process. Wears out the mouse hand. What about a better way to scan this stuff.

In addition to the seccesionist civs (cities in disorder have a chance of forming a new civ).
 
Back
Top Bottom