What Civs and Leaders do you all predict will be in VII's base game?

[Krajzen]

"Vertically challenged incestuous coward" is my new favourite insult to use against anybody for any reason

 

[Caesar of Bread]

As suggestions go, that's not . . . terrible.

Buwahahahahahahahaha

I mean if we do Peter or Catherine again, that might be... great

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Alright, some more complex predictions. I am going to guess we'll receive a nice rounded number of 20 Civs and one preorder.

America - with Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln appearing in Civ VI as two industrial American leaders, I am going to guess we'll either see the return of even more modern FDR or we'll see a president from the early years of the United States. Might be Washington, might be a new face like Jefferson.
Arabia - either lead by a new Caliph altogether or we'll see a return to Harun al-Rashid. I don't think Saladin is likely after Civ VI featured him twice.
Argentina - a newcomer, post-colonial civ that isn't United States and a South American civ, and with Eva Perón, they could also have a female leader. Their inclusion could check many desireable boxes, and I imagine it would be a fairly popular inclusion, too.
Ashanti/Benin - one of them could become a newcomer from Subsaharan Africa. Benin could offer a female leader - Queen Idia. Ashanti I picture lead by Osei Kofi Tutu I.
Assyria - a very important ancient Mesopotamian empire only featured once in Civ and missed in Civ VI. Ashurbanipal was a decent leader choice, could be repeated. I can also picture Tiglath-Pilesar III.
China - I think they might try a new yet unseen emperor. Would be glad if that happened - I am of the opinion that recycling leaders for China is a waste due to how long the country's history is and how many choices it offers.
Egypt - features in the teaser with a statue of female pharaoh. I'm leaning to the intepretation that it is a hint that we'll see Egypt with a female leader. As for which one... I am team Hatshepsut.
England - probably lead by Elizabeth I as a Civ staple. If not, an earlier king. My personal wish would be Henry V for maximum longbow fun.
France - many options to go with. I can imagine the return of Louis XIV. I wouldn't rule out a medieval king (my choice would be Philippe Auguste) or Napoleon either. I'd really like to see Napoleon III, but I don't think it's too likely. Cardinal Richelieu stands as an interesting option, but I think he would play a bit too similar to Civ VI's black Catherine.
Germany - I picture the return of Bismarck with an industrial and/or military focus. Second guess would be another fairly early emperor of HRE like Friedrich Barbarossa. I do not picture a mid-to-late Holy Roman emperor chosen - especially not a Habsburg, as I trust Austria has a good chance of making it to Civ VII at some point (though not for the release).
Greece - I think they'll merge Macedon and Greece into one civ again after Civ VI overdid it with Greek leaders. I think they will either pick Alexander as the leader again (as much as I'd prefer his father Philip II) or a new figure, either Athenian or Spartan.
India - of sorts. India is a blob which could be nicely separated into two, perhaps even three civs, but I dare not guess if they do go for it. If they do, I would guess they'll go for Maurya/Mughal split and will probably feature one on release and add the other in a DLC/Xpack. Maurya as the native Indian civ would likely be added at release, probably lead by Ashoka the Great. If they keep India as one civ, I am going to be pessimistic and guess the return of Nuclear Gandhi.
Japan - I don't think Emperor Meiji is a taboo - Victoria III features him as a character just fine, for example. I think he could be added. The question is whether he will after Civ VI dedicated part of its Japanese design to Meiji Restoration. Oda Nobunaga made it into only one main Civ game and he's a plenty popular figure, so I could see his reappearance happen instead.
Maya - with Mayans usually pushed into expansion packs, I think Firaxis might surprise us this time and place the Mayans in the base game. One of the teaser quotes coming from a Mayan source makes me think it could be a possible release civ. I don't dare guess the leader.
Mongolia - a warring Mongolian horde features in the trailer, so I think they might be a release civ. Lead by Genghis Khan, of course.
Native American civ (NOT BLOB!) - likely will happen after vanilla Civ VI infamously omitted them. I am not particularly interested in Native American history, so I don't know what they would like to go with. Iroquois, Sioux, Comanche, Navajo, those all seem like reasonable guesses to me.
Persia - with Nader Shah finally getting Firaxis to branch out past the Achaemenids, I think they could try to go for a non-Achaemenid design for Civ VII. The two big options are Sassanids (Zoroastrian Persian design) or Safavids (Islamic Persian design). Sassanids have several leader options - Shapur I or II, Khosrow I or II. I don't dare to guess who they would pick. If they go with Safavid design though, I'd say the most likely choice would be Abbas the Great.
Rome - probably led by an emperor. Personally, I would favour Diocletian, but I don't think he'll be the leader. I think Augustus is likely, but we might also see a new one. If they do go with a new one, I would guess Hadrian or Marcus Aurelius. Constantine is a possibility too, but I think he's less probable due to his capital being Constantinople, and I don't believe for a second they would miss adding Byzantium later on.
Russia - despite the dreadful recent events, I still think Russia will be included because of its sheer historical importance. They definitely won't be portrayed as Soviets. I am going to guess once again that we'll see an early leader - likely Ivan III or IV - more likely the latter. If they do go with Romanov, they might try some relatively harmless choice - I would guess Alexander I or II. I still think they'll go with an early Russian design though.
Southeast Asian civ (NOT BLOB!) - I can picture several options here. First, Burma would make a great newcomer (I don't have any leader guesses here). Second, Siam could make its return after Civ VI didn't feature it. I think Narai, Rama IV or Rama V could all make interesting leader choices. Ramkhamhaeng is possible as a tried and notorious leader, but less likely. I can also picture Vietnam being featured due to how fresh it is to Civ. Dunno what leader they could go for, but I think Ho Chi Minh is unlikely. I wouldn't rule out Indonesia or Khmer happening at some point, but I don't think they will be release civs.

Preorder: Viking Civ (NOT BLOB!) - preorder civ should be big enough name to pique interest. I think Vikings would be good for that - they would have fairly unique playthrough and they're plenty popular. My candidate would Denmark with Cnut the Great.

As a side note, I also think there's a good sporting chance that Kyiv will appear as a city state.

Nice that you noted that each of those civs weren't blobs.
Also as a notable hater of Eva Peron I'd be upset if she'd be the leader of Argentina

Bird Jaguar IV is the obvious answer.

Imagine if Bird Jaguar IV actually comes up as a leader for the Maya

Ok I have perfected my ideal list for release, which hopefully intersects with Firaxis logic of choice...

America - Dwight Eisenhower (for ww2 ruler and non controversial modern leader, as they are in short supply)

They might be in short supply.

Inca - idk (they don't have much to choose from ) (why Inca? because why Aztecs get to be first every time? also South America needs them)

Pachacuti is always a choice...

England - Alfred the Great (for sake of medieval, Anglo-Saxon England)

Controversial because he burned cakes one time I'd be happy if Alfred is England's Civilization VII leader

France - Louis XIV (incredible personality and someone from early modern era)

Kinda controversial since his actions led to the decline and fall of monarchist France

Germany - Konrad Adenauer (to promote Peaceful Non-Prussian Germany, and again: have some non-controversial modern leader)

Rome - Marcus Aurelius (incredibly interesting personality)
Greece - Themistocles (to promote maritime, trade-based Greece)
Italy - Caterina Sforza (Italy not being here before is a crime) (bonus point: we need competent girls) (potentially teased in a trailer)

I like Marcus Aurelius and Themistocles, never heard of Catherina Sforza before

Egypt - Hatshepsut (potentially teased in a trailer) (we need competent girls)

A fellow Hatshepsust agenda member?

Ottomans - Kösem Sultan (we need competent girls, very interesting character)

Never heard of Kösem

Mongolia - Genghis (sigh, no one can replace him)

Mandukhai is watching you

China - some emperor of Song or Ming dynasty (to justify scientific and naval focus; also dynasties not covered yet)

I thought they had Yongle as an alternate leader during the Leader Pass?

Japan - I'm torn between Meiji or one of legendary shaman queens, to leave samurai zone

Meiji!!!

19th civ - some crazy unpredictable wildcard, idk native Australians for example

So we have 19 civs, covering all staples and regions, one third ruled by women without pulling any desperate unpopular maneuvers (Catherine di Medici Christina, that crazy Portuguese queen etc), a mix of all eras and personalities, very few stereotypes, fresh cast, 2-3 new civs, one rare comeback, and few veterans coming earlier this time... It is too perfect for me, Firaxis definitely won't do this - I have failed hard.

Christina was a good choice (hot take) but in the end nice list!

 

[Leyrann]

Why would you want either of these mass murderers in the game when there are far more positive options for China (Chiang Kai-Shek, Sun Yat-sen, Qin Shi Huang, Taizong) and the Dutch (William the Silent)? It would be like choosing Hitler over Bismarck. William of Orange was a vertically challenged incestuous coward who is not worth emulating. Mary was literally his first cousin, which might be why they never had any successful pregnancies. His biggest "achievement" was the Protestant Ascendancy, which brought centuries of misery.

Um. William the Silent = William of Orange. The William that married Mary is William III.

Also, first cousin relationships aren't all that genetically problematic (unless repeated) - the increased risk of birth defects compared to no recent common ancestors is equal to the increased risk between a 25 year old woman and a 35 year old woman having a child; and no one would claim that it's unethical for a 35 year old woman to have children because of the increased risk of birth defects.

Kinda controversial since his actions led to the decline and fall of monarchist France

I think you're confusing Louis XIV with Louis XVI? XIV is the Sun King, XVI is the one who encountered a guillotine.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I think you're confusing Louis XIV with Louis XVI? XIV is the Sun King, XVI is the one who encountered a guillotine.

No, I'm not. Louis XIV's costly wars and lavish spending led to his kingdom's downfall. Also Edict of Fontainebleau is another reason why I'm not a Louis fan.

 

[Vandlys]

Um. William the Silent = William of Orange. The William that married Mary is William III.

Also, first cousin relationships aren't all that genetically problematic (unless repeated) - the increased risk of birth defects compared to no recent common ancestors is equal to the increased risk between a 25 year old woman and a 35 year old woman having a child; and no one would claim that it's unethical for a 35 year old woman to have children because of the increased risk of birth defects.



I think you're confusing Louis XIV with Louis XVI? XIV is the Sun King, XVI is the one who encountered a guillotine.

Willam the Silent is known as William of Orange in the Netherlands.

William III is known internationally as William of Orange, and as King of Scotland as William II.

...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

No, I'm not. Louis XIV's costly wars and lavish spending led to his kingdom's downfall. Also Edict of Fontainebleau is another reason why I'm not a Louis fan.

I don't think him or anyone would have predicted that would happen. Then again, it's not like the others after him did anything about it anyways, so you can't totally put the blame on him.

Playing as a French leader who is able to lavishly spend money for cultural advancements and amenities sounds fun anyways.

 

[Krajzen]

No, I'm not. Louis XIV's costly wars and lavish spending led to his kingdom's downfall.

His death preceded revolution by 74 years, with many of his actions preceding it by over 100 years... It's like blaming FDR for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, or emperor Meiji for ww2

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I don't think him or anyone would have predicted that would happen. Then again, it's not like the others after him did anything about it anyways, so you can't totally put the blame on him.

Playing as a French leader who is able to lavishly spend money for cultural advancements and amenities sounds fun anyways.

His death preceded revolution by 74 years, with many of his actions preceding it by over 100 years... It's like blaming FDR for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, or emperor Meiji for ww2

I mean both of you are right for that. My backup argument for why I don't like Louis XIV is that he created the Edict of Fontainebleau

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I don't think him or anyone would have predicted that would happen. Then again, it's not like the others after him did anything about it anyways, so you can't totally put the blame on him.

Playing as a French leader who is able to lavishly spend money for cultural advancements and amenities sounds fun anyways.

Louis XIV is reported to have said on or near his deathbed:

"Perhaps I have been too fond of War."

But this is less likely to have been because the War of the Spanish Succession bankrupted France (although it did) than that the war had decimated the nobility of France: Susane's histories of the French Army (9 volumes total) carefully list all the officer casualties by name where he could find them, and they were simply catastrophic from 1702 to 1714 - leading from the front in battles you lose as badly as they lost Blenheim, Ramillies, and Oudenarde was as close to suicidal as any actions in French military history. I still remember shuddering when I read of one aristocratic family at Blenheim, whose regiment was shot to pieces by English artillery - the head of the family, his brother, his son, and his nephew were all killed - essentially, the male line of that family wiped out in one afternoon.

Louis XIV 'lit the fuse' of the Revolution, but his successors fanned it almost continuously for the next 74 years, and the specific cause was Louis XVI's attempt to squeeze more taxes out of the French Estates General without taxing any of the French aristocracy or the church. To say that did not go over well with the remainder of the Estates - the merchant-middle class and peasants - is one of history's Great Understatements.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I made a prediction about civs earlier but not leaders. Here they are:
1. America-I have a feeling they will go classic again and go Abraham Lincoln. Only because the teaser depicted what it looks like was an African American steel-driving man.
2. Arabia- Umar II or any Umayyad caliph for a change.
3. China- I se Taizong mentioned frequently, and I bet Firaxis has taken notice.
4. Egypt- Probably Nefertiti or Hatshepsut from the trailer.
5. England-Elizabeth is sure to return again at some point, right? If there aren't alternate leaders, she would be in the base game.
6. France- It's time for Louis XIV to return.
7. Germany- Frederick the Great has been missing for a while.
8. Greece- Alexander. Same rationale as England.
9. India-Gandhi most likely. Hopefully they do Ashoka and could use him later.
10. Japan-Meiji if he can be depicted? If not another shogun leader.
11. Rome-Hadrian?
12. Russia-Catherine the Great
13. Vietnam- Le Loi for a more historical choice for Vietnam.
14. Maya-The return of Lady Six Sky or Pacal.
15. Argentina-Eva Peron
16. Italy-Cosimo or Lorenzo de Medici because Ed Beach is a fan.
17.Assyria-Ashurbanipal
18.Mongolia-Genghis Khan
19. Iroquois-Jigonhsasee

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I made a prediction about civs earlier but not leaders. Here they are:
6. France- It's time for Louis XIV to return.
9. India-Gandhi most likely.
15. Argentina-Eva Peron

Hello, you were saying?

 

[Xandinho]

Better developing my list of Civs for the base game:

Civilizations that are almost 100% certain:
1. America
2. Arabia
3. China
4. Egypt
5. England
6. France
7. Germany
8. Greece
9. India
10. Japan
11. Rome
12. Russia

I'm just not completely sure about Russia, but I still believe their chances are pretty high. It's such an old veteran that has been in the franchise since Civ1, and even before Arabia and Persia made their debuts.

13. Maya: the base Mesoamerican Civ slot this time. Maya is a fan favorite, as it was the most requested civilization to be in Civ6 after GS.
14. Muisca: I believe they will opt for something new in South America, and Muisca has always been highly requested. Brazil also has a good chance as it's a significant market, but I'm not so sure they would add it to the base game twice in a row. Gran Colombia also has a chance due to Simón Bolívar's charisma.
15. Ashanti: it has always been highly requested around here, just like Kongo was before it debuted in Civ6. In addition, it's a new name. A Maghreb civilization led by Dihya also has a good chance, especially since we didn't have a representative from this region in the previous game.
16. Assyria: since we can expect an ancient civilization from Mesopotamia, Assyria could make its return to the franchise in Civ7.
17. Mongols: from the trailer, it looks like they will return pretty early. A Central Asian civilization is expected to fill the slot that was once occupied by Scythia.
18. Indonesia: there were a lot of complaints about the fact that Civ6 did not have a representative from Southeast Asia at its launch. I believe that Indonesia has a good chance of filling this slot as it's an emerging gaming market, but I'd say that Siam is also a strong contender.
19. Italy or Italian representation: the pre-order this time will be for the much-requested Italian representation in Civ, which was lacking in Civ6.

I don't think we'll get Spain or Viking nation in the base game this time around, since Civ6 came with a lot of Europeans and there were really a lot of complaints around that. Even Italy as a pre-order is debatable, as they could go to Iroquois as they were also heavily requested in Civ6.

 

[HNation]

I'm a little confused as to why Chiang Kai-Shek would be an alternative to mass murderers, given the millions of people murdered during his decades as a dictator.

Chiang killed far fewer people than Mao, and Chiang actually had a good ideology.

Mao, for all the atrocities he committed, was immensely successful. The only things against him are that his atrocities are just too recent to be palpable, and the fuzziness regarding his depiction when it comes to the CPC.

Immensely successful in killing tens of millions of people and causing untold cultural destruction, yes.

This is offensive to vertically challenged persons, incest enjoyers and cowards

Thanks for noticing

Oh, so not incestuous?

First cousin marriages are incestuous.

Um. William the Silent = William of Orange. The William that married Mary is William III.

William III = William of Orange.

Also, first cousin relationships aren't all that genetically problematic (unless repeated) - the increased risk of birth defects compared to no recent common ancestors is equal to the increased risk between a 25 year old woman and a 35 year old woman having a child; and no one would claim that it's unethical for a 35 year old woman to have children because of the increased risk of birth defects.

Well, I do think it's troubling how the average age to have children keeps going up for numerous reasons, including birth defects, less time with grandparents, etc...I don't think it's unethical, per se, but it is, at the very least, ethically questionable to postpone childbearing until your mid-30s or later, especially if you do it because you would prefer to spend your 20s enjoying life. You're essentially placing hedonism ahead of your children's well-being.
First cousins being romantic/sexual partners is icky and weird.

I think you're confusing Louis XIV with Louis XVI? XIV is the Sun King, XVI is the one who encountered a guillotine.

Shames that King James VII & II wasn't able to make William of Orange have such an encounter.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

First cousin marriages are incestuous

This happens to be a very narrow Eurocentric view. But wait till you hear about Cleopatra

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Immensely successful in killing tens of millions of people and causing untold cultural destruction, yes.

Mao transformed a country crippled by European imperialism, Japanese atrocities and ethnic infighting into a superpower that could challenge the US and the USSR, so yes he was immensely successful, brutal as he was

 

[Krajzen]

Mao is this annoying case, where his insane achievements in the 1920 - 1949 period combined with his powerful personality make him both really good candidate for civ leader and genuine contributor to Chinese history, while the brutality of communist China and especially his catastrophic late ideas make him not viable. Like it or not, he managed to rise from rags to defeat impossible odds, and turned complete Syria-tier trainwreck of early 20th century China into functional unitary state free from any outside control, on the path to later industrialization under Deng Xiaoping. Meanwhile his terrible late ideas killed dozens of millions of people

 

[GeneralZIft]

Mao is this annoying case, where his insane achievements in the 1920 - 1949 period combined with his powerful personality make him both really good candidate for civ leader and genuine contributor to Chinese history, while the brutality of communist China and especially his catastrophic late ideas make him not viable. Like it or not, he managed to rise from rags to defeat impossible odds, and turned complete Syria-tier trainwreck of early 20th century China into functional unitary state free from any outside control, on the path to later industrialization under Deng Xiaoping. Meanwhile his terrible late ideas killed dozens of millions of people

If Civ was less "pop history" "family friendly" "colourful, cheerful" and more kinda grim, serious tone, then you could see leaders like Mao or Stalin and mechanics like slavery, plague, sacrifice and such.

I doubt we'll ever see that, I mean over the years it definitely shifted from one to the other and to be honest it's more digestible this way

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

If Civ was less "pop history" "family friendly" "colourful, cheerful" and more kinda grim, serious tone, then you could see leaders like Mao or Stalin and mechanics like slavery, plague, sacrifice and such.

I doubt we'll ever see that, I mean over the years it definitely shifted from one to the other and to be honest it's more digestible this way

We do have slavery and sacrifice in Civ6, they're just not very explicit about it

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Syria-tier trainwreck

The insults in this thread just keep on coming