What Civs and Leaders do you all predict will be in VII's base game?

[Lord Lakely]

Well it’s not much, but there is the tweet reply to Eagle Pursuit from Ed Beach a while ago seemingly in support of adding Ukraine.

Or an equivalent thereof (Kievan Rus')

 

[Krajzen]

Or an equivalent thereof (Kievan Rus')

Like I said once: Kievan Rus is not an "equivalent" of Ukraine. It is medieval state of very unclear early history, culture and language, covering areas of nodern day Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, with multiple autonomous centers of power, which is very controversial among historians in many aspects, especially regarding "who spoke what language where and how does it relate to later identities there". It is also atomic bomb of political controversies, with its very existence being interpreted by Putinism as a justification of current war and an argument against Ukrainian identity.

If we want Ukraine then we should simply add "Ukraine" with specifical local elements from different eras, not Pandora's Box of shared Russo-Ukrainian civ and city list where it is impossible to assign language to its leader without international incident level political contriversy

 

[Potworny]

Well it’s not much, but there is the tweet reply to Eagle Pursuit from Ed Beach a while ago seemingly in support of adding Ukraine.

I expect that plenty of the devs would love to include Ukraine, but a whole another can of worms is whether or not the publisher would want that. There sadly seem to be a lot of people who are opposed to Ukraine vehemently, even outside of the obvious, so 2K may have some doubts.

 

[DeutschDachs]

NGL, I kind of think that Stalin might be back for Russia because we already had Catherine in 5, Peter in 6 and now Stalin in 7.

Still holding out for Ivan the Terrible, Russia's first Czar who doubled its territorial size and commissioned the building of St Basil's

Ivan III (the Great) would also be interesting pick as he freed Moscow from the Mongols and united Novgorod and Muscuvy under his rule

They're the two longest reigns in Russian history as well

 

[Gori the Grey]

another 4-8 years, another Gandhi...

There is no peace, only Gandhi

India (please anyone but Gandhi)

we've all gotten tired of the "Ghandi nukes you" so change it up for once in the entire series.

I took just the first four or five "for heaven's sake, not Ghandi" quotes as my pretext for sharing my (to my own mind) killer idea for finally axing the nuclear Ghandi in-joke.

Have a Great Peacemaker as a kind of great person. Have Ghandi be one of them with the special quality that he can mediate wars during the nuclear age particularly well.

Game still has a Ghandi. Still linked with nukes. But not the same-old, same-old joke. And since you don't have to do the old joke any more, you can have a new leader for India. Or unblob it and have several.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I might be OOTL, but I saw here and on another forum that Mary Stuart is likely. What is the basis for this? Seems like a longshot imo

One of the voice actresses in the trailer has a Scottish accent

Then we could get one of powerful de facto "female sultans" of Ottomans (can't wait to see angry Turkish nationalists and alt right chuds seething about Muslim woman leader )

I don't think Turkish nationalists would mind (but I'm sure I will if there's no alternative male leader considering there are so many more great and interesting male sultans (and viziers) besides the infinitely repeating Suleiman and Mehmed II)

 

[Kimiimaro]

One of the voice actresses in the trailer has a Scottish accent


I don't think Turkish nationalists would mind (but I'm sure I will if there's no alternative male leader considering there are so many more great and interesting male sultans (and viziers) besides the infinitely repeating Suleiman and Mehmed II)

We've actually only seen Mehmed II once in Civ, that is in Civ IV.

I wouldn't mind seeing him return... Though I have other preferences. But they aren't particularly emblematic of what one imagines when saying "the Ottomans", and I don't think Firaxis will flood the game with 19th Century figures just to pander to my historical tastes anyway

 

[moondog385]

Still holding out for Ivan the Terrible, Russia's first Czar who doubled its territorial size and commissioned the building of St Basil's

Ivan III (the Great) would also be interesting pick as he freed Moscow from the Mongols and united Novgorod and Muscuvy under his rule

They're the two longest reigns in Russian history as well

Ivan III is definitely my pick for a non-Enlightenment Russia leader. Hope we get away from that for the base game, at least.

 

[reddishrecue]

Still holding out for Ivan the Terrible, Russia's first Czar who doubled its territorial size and commissioned the building of St Basil's

Ivan III (the Great) would also be interesting pick as he freed Moscow from the Mongols and united Novgorod and Muscuvy under his rule

They're the two longest reigns in Russian history as well

I also thought of that, yeah. Ivan the Terrible is possible.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Ivan the Mighty, rather than the Terrible - the word is used in the old English meaning, of Terrifying rather than Terrible. I've posted on him before, aside from his Terrifying aspects, he also had Basil's Cathedral built, formed the first Streltsi musket units, and established the first printing plant/press in Moscow, and personally wrote a bunch of religious essays that are still considered to be very good, so potential Religious and even Cultural aspects as well as Terrifying/Militant.

Ivan III is another potential Russian Ruler, but I prefer Dmitri Donskoi. He led the force at Kulikovo that drove off trhe 'Tatars' (Mongol successors) and made Moscow truly independent of them, paving the way for it to start expanding and absorbing the other Russian city states.
BUT he was both Prince of Moscow and Grand Prince of Vladimir, so he could serve as Leader regardless of which city state is chosen as the basis for future Russia. Moreover, in addition to building the Moscow Kremlin and having serious military chops, he is also venerated as an Orthodox Saint so, again, both military and religious potential as a Leader.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Ivan the Terrible is possible

As suggestions go, that's not . . . terrible.

Buwahahahahahahahaha

 

[Vahnstad]

If they do Russia, no Romanovs or communist leaders please. I prefer Rurik dynasty or Kyivan Rus, something new dating back prior to Russian imperialism. Otherwise it's just Peter & Catherine The Great over & over again...

I'm fine with Ivan The Terrible, he has never appeared before in a civ game, so this should be his chance.

 

[Vahnstad]

If we want Ukraine then we should simply add "Ukraine" with specifical local elements from different eras, not Pandora's Box of shared Russo-Ukrainian civ and city list where it is impossible to assign language to its leader without international incident level political contriversy

Who would be that leader of Ukraine.

I'm fine with Zelenskyy but he seems too recent. And it seems weird to pick a leader who wasn't even a leader yet IRL when civ 6 released.

And Ukrainian nationalists during WW2 who rebelled against the Russians collaborated generally with the nazis so those are not a good pick either. Leaders like Kravchuk were basically still puppets of the Russians.

Some of the better choices seem to be actually communists that were both communist revolutionaries and in favour of Ukrainian self-determination/nationalist. I think these might be the picks, esp. as some of those were killed during the great purge. I think of Hrushevsky, Vynnychenko or Petliura.

But what I don't want is a Ukrainian nationalist who had ties with the nazis...

Edit: Petliura also not a good option as he ordered several Jewish pogroms... as commander of Ukrainian National Army.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Who would be that leader of Ukraine.

I'm fine with Zelenskyy but he seems too recent. And it seems weird to pick a leader who wasn't even a leader yet IRL when civ 6 released.

And Ukrainian nationalists during WW2 who rebelled against the Russians collaborated generally with the nazis so those are not a good pick either. Leaders like Kravchuk were basically still puppets of the Russians.

Some of the better choices seem to be actually communists that were both communist revolutionaries and in favour of Ukrainian self-determination/nationalist. I think these might be the picks, esp. as some of those were killed during the great purge. I think of Hrushevsky, Vynnychenko or Petliura.

But what I don't want is a Ukrainian nationalist who had ties with the nazis...

Edit: Petliura also not a good option as he ordered several Jewish pogroms... as commander of Ukrainian National Army.

The only palpable choice is someone from the Cossack Hetmanate, like Bohdan Khmelnytsky (who, er, also massacred Jews and Poles, but much longer ago, so maybe not as bad?)

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Or Ivan Mazepa

 

[HNation]

• China (my pipe dream is bringing Mao back.
• Dutch (Billy Orange

Why would you want either of these mass murderers in the game when there are far more positive options for China (Chiang Kai-Shek, Sun Yat-sen, Qin Shi Huang, Taizong) and the Dutch (William the Silent)? It would be like choosing Hitler over Bismarck. William of Orange was a vertically challenged incestuous coward who is not worth emulating. Mary was literally his first cousin, which might be why they never had any successful pregnancies. His biggest "achievement" was the Protestant Ascendancy, which brought centuries of misery.

I can understand going with a controversial/dishonorable/murderous leader when they are by far the best known leader of their people (Genghis Khan) or when other possible leaders are just as bad as they are (Shaka, which other Zulu Kings could you use? Dingaan, who is most famous for killing children by smashing their heads onto wagon wheels?)

I think Firaxis has been trying to avoid the most controversial leaders in recent games.

If you want a controversial leader, why not pick one who was controversial because he believed in Catholic Equality at a time when sectarian bigotry was the norm in Britain and Ireland? Why not pick James VII & II? A way better choice than Chairman Mao (who killed the most people of any world leader) or William of Orange (who was one of Ireland's worst enemies in history, alongside Cromwell, Bertrand Russell's grandfather, and Trevelyan).

 

[Krajzen]

Who would be that leader of Ukraine.

I'm fine with Zelenskyy but he seems too recent. And it seems weird to pick a leader who wasn't even a leader yet IRL when civ 6 released.

And Ukrainian nationalists during WW2 who rebelled against the Russians collaborated generally with the nazis so those are not a good pick either. Leaders like Kravchuk were basically still puppets of the Russians.

Some of the better choices seem to be actually communists that were both communist revolutionaries and in favour of Ukrainian self-determination/nationalist. I think these might be the picks, esp. as some of those were killed during the great purge. I think of Hrushevsky, Vynnychenko or Petliura.

But what I don't want is a Ukrainian nationalist who had ties with the nazis...

Edit: Petliura also not a good option as he ordered several Jewish pogroms... as commander of Ukrainian National Army.

Any of famous hetmans would be fine as a leader of Ukrainian civ (though I honestly have no idea if Khmelnytsky is fine as he massacred a lot of Poles and Jews - personally I could deal with it for the 17th century but others may not). Fortunately there are several alternatives, like Mazepa proposed above.

There were also some nice leaders of Galician-Volhynian duchy, and finally some Kyiv-based rulers of Kievan Rus, though I'm afraid that would be a risky pick for clash with Russian perception of them.

I think hetmans are the best ideaa as they were very colourful personalities of very unique culture/state, which is also unambigously considered "Ukrainian" and avoiding 20th century controversies.

 

[Arcaian]

Why would you want either of these mass murderers in the game when there are far more positive options for China (Chiang Kai-Shek, Sun Yat-sen, Qin Shi Huang, Taizong) and the Dutch (William the Silent)? It would be like choosing Hitler over Bismarck. William of Orange was a vertically challenged incestuous coward who is not worth emulating. Mary was literally his first cousin, which might be why they never had any successful pregnancies. His biggest "achievement" was the Protestant Ascendancy, which brought centuries of misery.

I'm a little confused as to why Chiang Kai-Shek would be an alternative to mass murderers, given the millions of people murdered during his decades as a dictator.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Why would you want either of these mass murderers in the game when there are far more positive options for China (Chiang Kai-Shek, Sun Yat-sen, Qin Shi Huang, Taizong)

Mao, for all the atrocities he committed, was immensely successful. The only things against him are that his atrocities are just too recent to be palpable, and the fuzziness regarding his depiction when it comes to the CPC.

William of Orange was a vertically challenged incestuous coward who is not worth emulating.

This is offensive to vertically challenged persons, incest enjoyers and cowards

Mary was literally his first cousin

Oh, so not incestuous?

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

This is offensive to vertically challenged persons, incest enjoyers and cowards

To all of those on the forums who are as such, please stand up.