Civilization VII Dev Diary #5: Combat

Pistol-equipped cuirassiers like that are typical European cavalry of the 17th century: the European post-knights became obsessed with using gunpowder instead of lances until the first third of the 18th century, when people who didn't slow down to shoot started running over them, like Swedes and Prussians. By the middle of the 18th centry pistols had largely been replaced by carbines, swords and lances as the primary mounted weapons.

Given the uniforms of the infantry around them, it looks like they are part of a middle eastern force, so that mid-18th century date could be extended to the end of the 18th century.

Given those dates, I suspect they are 1st Tier Modern units - after all, if Modern Age starts in 1750, that is around the last date they were used in European warfare, so they could be the Basic Cavalry that Exploration Knights/Cuirassiers upgrade to when changing Ages.

The Modern Age Tech Tree shown from the video yesterday doesn't show any horse cavalry units at all, so they might also be the only Modern Age cavalry unit except for Uniques (which I do not believe we have seen in the Modern Age yet).
The Modern Age starts with Cuirassiers unlocked. I'd call those mounted units Cuirassiers, except that they are fighting alongside a unit with an assortment of rather Exploration Age-looking melee weapons, which are only in the first tier of Exploration Infantry. The men in the back appear to be holding crossbows, which are mid-Exploration. So, I don't think this picture is depicting Cuirassiers, rather a Late Exploration Cavalry.
 
Do we know what this pistol-toting Exploration Era cavalry unit is?
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They seem to be the eastern variant of the same unit seen in this pic. Judging by the era and the look of the European version, I say they are reiters, 16th / 17th century cavalry.


Also, I think in the pic we can see men at arms building fortifications and a commander in a fortified hex next to the trebuchet.
 
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They seem to be the eastern variant of the same unit seen in this pic. Judging by the era and the look of the Eropean version, I say they are reiters, 16th / 17th century cavalry.


Also, I think in the pic we can see men at arms building fortifications and a commander in a fortified hex next to the trebuchet.
Name confirmed?
Basically this unit name sould be either Harquebusier or Cuirassier. while Modern Age Cuirassier should be renamed 'Cavalry'.

Since there's no carabinier cavalry exists in game AFAIK.
 
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They seem to be the eastern variant of the same unit seen in this pic. Judging by the era and the look of the Eropean version, I say they are reiters, 16th / 17th century cavalry.


Also, I think in the pic we can see men at arms building fortifications and a commander in a fortified hex next to the trebuchet.
These shots back-date them, for sure.

On the other hand, if they are a very late Exploration Age unit, then they are hiding either under the Gunpowder Tech or some other late Exploration technology. The assumption (among all of us) was that Gunpowder opened three units: a musketman/arquebusier, Bombard, and Carrack/Galleon ship with cannon. Based on the identification of this unit at the end of Exploration, I suspect the 'hand gun' shown under the Gunpowder Tech represents the application of gunpowder to both infantry and mounted units, making this a Knight Upgrade to Reiter (first mentioned in 1546, but did not adopt pistols exclusively until a bit later). They could also be 'mounted arquebusiers' since the distinction between the arquebus when carried by mounted troops and the pistol got blurred by the beginning of the 17th century: the arquebus could be as short as 2 feet long while 'horse pistols' could be up to 18 inches long firing musket-sized balls. Reiter would be a more appropriate title for an Exploration Age unit, though.

I suggest, though, that this unit as the last of the Exploration Age may make an Age-transition Upgrade a Napoleonic-type Cuirassier with swords instead of pistols, or an early-19th century 'Cavalry' ala Civ VI, because there simply isn't any horse cavalry indicated on the Modern Age Tech Tree: the first new ground units showing are the WWI heavy tank under Combustion (2nd tier of Techs) and modern artillery and infantry (well, WWI era) under Industrialization (2nd Tech tier). Since they show WWII medium tanks 3 tiers later under 'Armor' Tech, that would make the Horse Cavalry upgrade Tier I and the two tank-types Tiers II and III.
 
These shots back-date them, for sure.

On the other hand, if they are a very late Exploration Age unit, then they are hiding either under the Gunpowder Tech or some other late Exploration technology. The assumption (among all of us) was that Gunpowder opened three units: a musketman/arquebusier, Bombard, and Carrack/Galleon ship with cannon. Based on the identification of this unit at the end of Exploration, I suspect the 'hand gun' shown under the Gunpowder Tech represents the application of gunpowder to both infantry and mounted units, making this a Knight Upgrade to Reiter (first mentioned in 1546, but did not adopt pistols exclusively until a bit later). They could also be 'mounted arquebusiers' since the distinction between the arquebus when carried by mounted troops and the pistol got blurred by the beginning of the 17th century: the arquebus could be as short as 2 feet long while 'horse pistols' could be up to 18 inches long firing musket-sized balls. Reiter would be a more appropriate title for an Exploration Age unit, though.

I suggest, though, that this unit as the last of the Exploration Age may make an Age-transition Upgrade a Napoleonic-type Cuirassier with swords instead of pistols, or an early-19th century 'Cavalry' ala Civ VI, because there simply isn't any horse cavalry indicated on the Modern Age Tech Tree: the first new ground units showing are the WWI heavy tank under Combustion (2nd tier of Techs) and modern artillery and infantry (well, WWI era) under Industrialization (2nd Tech tier). Since they show WWII medium tanks 3 tiers later under 'Armor' Tech, that would make the Horse Cavalry upgrade Tier I and the two tank-types Tiers II and III.
Yet I don't understand why FXis choose Cuirassiers as Tier0 Age 3 Cavalry choice rather than Carabiniers or Line Cavalry? Did Firaxis ran short of more proper name? Didn't Firaxis even know that US Army NEVER raises Cuirassiers.
 
Yet I don't understand why FXis choose Cuirassiers as Tier0 Age 3 Cavalry choice rather than Carabiniers or Line Cavalry? Did Firaxis ran short of more proper name? Didn't Firaxis even know that US Army NEVER raises Cuirassiers.
Yes, but the US is just one civ out of many of that age and other did raise cuirassiers and similar cavalry. The US is not the gold standard.
 
Yes, but the US is just one civ out of many of that age and other did raise cuirassiers and similar cavalry. The US is not the gold standard.
Yet still unit names has to cover anyone else who never uses cuirassiers.
And by 1750s most shock cavalry, or 'line cavalry' no longer wears armor.

The Gold Standard is already there before the US of A came to exists. Besides, Cuirassiers were only a fraction of Heavy Cavalry (as per Civ6 rules) and most if not all are also elite guards.
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^ Here. British Regiment of Horse (I don't know if Brit units are 'Light' or 'Heavy' cavalry but French unit showing here was Royal Musketeers.
 
^ No I don't mean that.

But look at warfare of 1750s. How many Cuirassier units were there? How many were actually wear steel armor to fight battles, and how many 'Heavy' cavalry of that time didn't wear armor but still being described as 'big men on a big horse' ?

Coupling with the fact that Cavalry class is now converged (No 'light' and 'heavy' distinctions anymore). AND there's no 'armorless' carabinier cavalry shows up BEFORE Combustion tech replaced all of them with landships. These are reasons I don't agree with the term 'Cuirassiers' being Tier 0 Modern Age cavalry. Instead it should be Final cavalry unit of Age 2. (There's a picture of Age 2 cavalry with pistol / carbine thing elsewhere in this forum.)
 
Coupling with the fact that Cavalry class is now converged (No 'light' and 'heavy' distinctions anymore). AND there's no 'armorless' carabinier cavalry shows up BEFORE Combustion tech replaced all of them with landships. These are reasons I don't agree with the term 'Cuirassiers' being Tier 0 Modern Age cavalry. Instead it should be Final cavalry unit of Age 2. (There's a picture of Age 2 cavalry with pistol / carbine thing elsewhere in this forum.)
I think the decision between Modern Tier 0 and Exploration Final Tier is just a choice of FXS, so no need to mad about it.
 
Hey all! Yesterday's Modern Age stream was packed - lots of reveals, including a peak at Civ VII's combat. 🧡
I'm sure this will be the TOP of the combat in the franchise.
 
Do we know what this pistol-toting Exploration Era cavalry unit is?
Commander-unpack.png

The earliest pistol-wielding cavalry force in Europe was the German Black Knights, called "Schwarze Reiter" or shortened as "Reiter". When this type of unit was introduced to France and England, they picked up new names such as "pistolier" or "pistoleer". I suppose pistoleer is a nice generic name.
 
The earliest pistol-wielding cavalry force in Europe was the German Black Knights, called "Schwarze Reiter" or shortened as "Reiter". When this type of unit was introduced to France and England, they picked up new names such as "pistolier" or "pistoleer". I suppose pistoleer is a nice generic name.
I could agree on this. BUT there's another breed of gun cavalry as well - Harquebusiers. and they carry lighter arquebuses, some even trained to shoot on hoseback, trained to support pistoliers (who tend to wear better and heavier armor)

Pistoliers shown here carry wheellock pistols.
Asian and maybe Continental Americans might carry simpler matchlocks.

And these pistols use the same musket ball caliber. and having a reasonably long barrel for battlefield uses. hence the name 'horse pistols'.
Japanese matchlock horse pistol.jpg
 
The earliest pistol-wielding cavalry force in Europe was the German Black Knights, called "Schwarze Reiter" or shortened as "Reiter". When this type of unit was introduced to France and England, they picked up new names such as "pistolier" or "pistoleer". I suppose pistoleer is a nice generic name.
The contemporary nomenclature for cavalry units in Europe from the mid-16th century on got really, really complicated. Units like the 'Reiters' with gunpowder weapons were variously called pistoliers, or mounted arquebussiers, but by 1632 Cruso's "Military Instructions for the Cavalry" divided cavalry into Lancers (which meant the old–fashioned knights with lances, NOT light cavalry as they became later), Cuirassiers, Harquebusiers, Carbiniers and Dragoons.

Harquebusiers and carbiniers were virtually identical, since their weapons were simply 'longer than pistols' but varied from 30 to 48 inches long and their tactical purpose was identical: provide fire support fo the cuirassiers.

Cuirassiers by the early 17th century, by the way, were equipped with a sword and two pistols each, but also heavily-armored with full body armor, helmet and thigh armor, and so were very expensive - only a single regiment was raised in the English Civil War, for example.

Dragoons were mounted infantry, not trained or given horses good enough to charge with, and in continental armies of the time were frequently classified separately, as in "Horse, Foot and Dragoons" to describe an army's components.

Since everybody except dragoons could be wearing some kind of metal cuirass at some time between about 1500 and 1650 (including harquebusiers and pistoliers and carbiniers), the graphics get confusing: the pistol-toting cavalry shown in the game video could really be Cuirassiers, Pistoliers or 'Reiters' depending on the exact date or the army: The Russians were forming units of 'reitars' as late as late as the second half of the 17th century and everybody's cavalry were still issued pistols (1 or more) right into the middle of the 18th century, even though it was no longer considered tactically efficient to try to use them in battle: John Churchill, in fact, starting in 1702 only issued 3 bullets to each of his cavalrymen because their pistols were only to be used to protect their horses when they were turned loose to forage, NOT in battle!

As for the term 'Cuirassier' itself, it is also a misnomer. While it always meant an armored cavalryman, men on equally-large horses with heavy straight swords and the same tactical purpose - to charge home and break an enemy unit in battle - were also formed without body armor of any kind: the English/British 'Heavy Dragoons' were heavy cavalry of that type, without the cuirass but with every other cuirassier's characteristic in battle. The Royal French Army in the century before the revolution had only a single regiment of armored cuirassiers, the Cuirassiers du Roi, but dozens of regiments of men on equally-large horses with equally heavy swords and the tactics of Battle Cavalry. In-game, they would have the same tactics and virtually the same factors as 'cuirassiers'.

Even as late as the Napoleonic Wars, only the Russian and French armies had large numbers of armored men on big horses as Cuirassiers. The Austrians only armored the front of their men (their 'cuirassiers' wore no metal back-plates) and the British and Prussian armies had no armored cavalry at all, regardless of what they were called.

Ironically, everybody formed regiments of armored cuirassiers after the Napoleonic Wars, just when rifled firearms made body armor virtually useless. By the end of the 19th century, except for parade units like the British Horse Guards , body armor was no longer worn by any cavalry.
 
The contemporary nomenclature for cavalry units in Europe from the mid-16th century on got really, really complicated. Units like the 'Reiters' with gunpowder weapons were variously called pistoliers, or mounted arquebussiers, but by 1632 Cruso's "Military Instructions for the Cavalry" divided cavalry into Lancers (which meant the old–fashioned knights with lances, NOT light cavalry as they became later), Cuirassiers, Harquebusiers, Carbiniers and Dragoons.

Harquebusiers and carbiniers were virtually identical, since their weapons were simply 'longer than pistols' but varied from 30 to 48 inches long and their tactical purpose was identical: provide fire support fo the cuirassiers.

Cuirassiers by the early 17th century, by the way, were equipped with a sword and two pistols each, but also heavily-armored with full body armor, helmet and thigh armor, and so were very expensive - only a single regiment was raised in the English Civil War, for example.

Dragoons were mounted infantry, not trained or given horses good enough to charge with, and in continental armies of the time were frequently classified separately, as in "Horse, Foot and Dragoons" to describe an army's components.

Since everybody except dragoons could be wearing some kind of metal cuirass at some time between about 1500 and 1650 (including harquebusiers and pistoliers and carbiniers), the graphics get confusing: the pistol-toting cavalry shown in the game video could really be Cuirassiers, Pistoliers or 'Reiters' depending on the exact date or the army: The Russians were forming units of 'reitars' as late as late as the second half of the 17th century and everybody's cavalry were still issued pistols (1 or more) right into the middle of the 18th century, even though it was no longer considered tactically efficient to try to use them in battle: John Churchill, in fact, starting in 1702 only issued 3 bullets to each of his cavalrymen because their pistols were only to be used to protect their horses when they were turned loose to forage, NOT in battle!

As for the term 'Cuirassier' itself, it is also a misnomer. While it always meant an armored cavalryman, men on equally-large horses with heavy straight swords and the same tactical purpose - to charge home and break an enemy unit in battle - were also formed without body armor of any kind: the English/British 'Heavy Dragoons' were heavy cavalry of that type, without the cuirass but with every other cuirassier's characteristic in battle. The Royal French Army in the century before the revolution had only a single regiment of armored cuirassiers, the Cuirassiers du Roi, but dozens of regiments of men on equally-large horses with equally heavy swords and the tactics of Battle Cavalry. In-game, they would have the same tactics and virtually the same factors as 'cuirassiers'.

Even as late as the Napoleonic Wars, only the Russian and French armies had large numbers of armored men on big horses as Cuirassiers. The Austrians only armored the front of their men (their 'cuirassiers' wore no metal back-plates) and the British and Prussian armies had no armored cavalry at all, regardless of what they were called.

Ironically, everybody formed regiments of armored cuirassiers after the Napoleonic Wars, just when rifled firearms made body armor virtually useless. By the end of the 19th century, except for parade units like the British Horse Guards , body armor was no longer worn by any cavalry.
FXis has indeed a wrong nomeclature. Cuirassier should be a name of Late Exploration Age cavalry wielding firearms as graphically presented here. and ... to be more descriptive, and to fit will with many others. Tier 0 Modern Age cavalry unit should be renamed Line Cavalry. for the reasons above. (just 'Cavalry' may do even.) especially only a handful of Cavalry forces of 18th century were indeed named cuirassiers (most of them were elite guards, and not every elite horse guards were cuirassiers.. French Royal Musketeers NEVER wears cuirass at any point in their history). and US Army NEVER bothers raising any (and frankly enough, never applies this name nor included steel cuirasses as a standard cavalry equipment regardless that Springfield Armory can craft ones, I'm not sure if there's any armorer left in North America at that time but i'm sure that Europeans who came to North America before 1700 came with fighting men in steel armor--From Ponce de Leon and his Conquistador host to John Smith (forget Pocahontas princess lore) and Calvinist pilgrims of Plymouth, New England) . even when the nation is ready to equip ones by 1830s, since their cavalry doctrines were firepower oriented--AND-- in the same time, advanced firearms already became available (Hall Rifle, and more importantly, Colt Revolvers). so Federal investments in US Army cavalry forces went towards firepower and thus strenghten American cavalry traditions, rather than replicating European Gloryboys on Horseback.

Since, so far I don't see Modern Age 'armorless' cavalry unit appears anywhere before they evolved into Landships. not even as Tier1 unit (should be named 'Carabiniers' and wore Mid 19th Century uniform). If Cuirassier is a wrong unit name (but not icon, this helmet was commonly worn by any cavalry units short of Hussars, who wore either fur caps or shakoes), what's better name if Dragoons shouldn't also be taken as well? I'd say 'Line Cavalry'.

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^ This 'What if' cavalry unit. US Army Cuirassier, with all equipments made by Springfield Armory.
 
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