What civs are winnable in Emperor?

[Norton II]

Did I miss anything?

Just Babylon, which is probably impossible on Emperor.

 

[kairob]

I have followed two of the stratagy guides for Babylonia on Emporer with sevoral attempts and failed them all, but then again I am not that good in the earlier era's...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I'm having such a bad time with England. The circumnavigation and city founding is easy, but somebody beats me to scientific method all the time (last time it was Netherlands by 4 turns (in 1520!!), and they don't even have education, first time it was France who I mistakenly traded education and printing press and some cash for guilds and philosophy). Japan goes for liberalism and gets it in 1470 so using that to get SM is not feasible.

The problem is that if somebody gets SM first your UHV indicator doesn't go gray (it does when you finally research Radio after you've been beaten eons ago). Rhye can we please fix that?

Any suggestions as to which order I should research techs?

Edit: never mind, I finally did it in 1760. It appears that the AI tends to choose one path over the other (research vs. military). For example, in one game Spain went straight for paper after civil service, while in another it went for guilds and engineering first. Germany in my winning game stalled at Scientific method for the longest time while in my losing game they went straight for it. Once you get physics and electricity you're set because unless they specifically bulb for both of these they can never catch up. My pitiable empire was down to 8 cities (only 3 colonies left) so I only got a Henry VIII.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Just won France and Spain in 2 days. Each time I captured Rome and without it the research cost is just horrendous. (That's why I don't have great hopes for my next emperor endeavor, the Vikings, because Astronomy is so astronomically expensive now in the latest patch, and I can't collapse France, Spain or Portugal which build American colonies early, unlike Netherlands and England)
Plus the colosseum in Rome makes military production so much better besides just relying on your capital.
Plus the AP makes declaring peace much less likely, and spreads Christianity to all your cities.
Maybe I should load all my initial Viking troops towards Rome...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I need some advice here. Started an Arabia game, and chose gunpowder as my only tech that I can reasonably research in time (thought about Engineering but the advantages of cannon is just overwhelming). Khmer is my vassal producing some happiness (I have plenty of resources for that anyway). As you can see, I've just practically won the Emperor 2/3 UHV for Arabia, despite 2 plagues hitting me the in the late 1100's and early 1200's (one specifically hit me only). I control Rome (which is key to everything), Jerusalem, Patna which counts as the 3 shrines (or 4). Islam is at a measly 17% right now. I just declared war on Portugal to capture Toledo (which became Portuguese when Spain collapsed).

Should I go the peaceful route (spreading Islam by missionaries after switching to no religion), or should I try conquering more (like France)? I'm afraid my stability is going to be a huge issue if I remember my Monarch game correctly.

Addendum: finally did it in 1912. Kept my empire intact and just kept building courthouses and jails. Lots of curassiers saved me from infantry. Even made 3/4 of the countries Islamic (including America, all the European countries except England and Vikings, Russia, Mali. Turkey and Khmer were both Islamic before they disintegrated). Almost as frustrating as the Khmer UHV.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Aztecs can now be added to the difficult by possible list. The beginning is actually easier since you start with 10 dog soldiers that happened to be in your spawn area, giving you much more ammo against their compatriots later.
I found the the workboat trick to meet the European civs doesn't always work (Portuguese carracks can see your land from where the workboat can reach). So I sent my dog soldier to the most northeastern point of Canada and there I met the French first. Then it is all landgrab (from the Floridas, to the 2 islands and finally where England likes to places Georgetown). Making sure my Georgetown has enough culture to encompass that island just north of it was tricky (had to whip a library, send a Christian missionary and then a monastery).

Then it's compass, optics, astronomy and scientific method (after I stole banking from the Americans and researched printing press myself). Got my golden age just in time (1858).

The most frustrating part is finding suitable slaves. By 1900 everybody had infantry while I still languished in with riflemen, and can't produce enough of them en masse. But by 1950 it was worse--England just launched its spaceship, and I only had infantry/tanks vs. everybody else's mechanized infantry/gunships. So I built 15+ of them and sent them towards French Canada and hoped for the best. Thank God for the experience I had with the dog soldiers--even though I had no major wars until then, I had 3 great generals from my dog soldier hunting so my units were experienced enough to kill those advanced French troops.

 

[usi]

I just won the Viking UHV, and I guess it should be placed in the 'Easy' list.

There are two keys to the victory.

1) Capture Rome using 3 axes and an archer you start with (just like other UHVs on the emperor difficulty, you need to be lucky).
Build a Christian church there and have a priest specialist to build a shrine ASAP.
Later, you will build triremes and caravels there, and use them to sink Byzantine ships.

2) Forget about researching astronomy, and build a settler in an Incan city you capture.
For this purpose you probably want to capture Incan capital, since other cities are crappy.
Neverthless, it will still be in 1400s when you can finally whip (you should whip) a settler there.
So, be sure to declear wars on English/Spanish/French/Dutch if they researched astronomy.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Wow Usi you're good (you and your caravels) and lucky to win in 1500. Every time I send my axemen towards Rome it's either 2 longbowmen or something more. Rome is the key to everything as usual. Maybe I'll try the Vikings again.

I just won Inca and it too should be placed in the easy category. Just found all the cities (as in my wiki strategy guide) but instead of going for optics (which is so damn expensive with prerequisites), cap your research at 0% after sailing, bronze working, monarchy and calendar. Spawn 1 great merchant and send it towards either Rio or the northern Portuguese city and net about 900 gold. The rest of the 2000 will be your research money. Especially be nice to Spain or England (who usually founds a city on the island north of South America). The third goal was kind of an anticlimax since it was pure growth and research until 1802.

 

[Jet]

Did I miss anything?

Non-UHV victories.

Unless your question was only about UHV victories, but you didn't say it was.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yes I'm just counting UHV victories, although with the destabilization of large empires it's tough to imagine a domination victory. Cultural is probably impossible due to the 50000 culture now needed for legendary, although if you have 3 or more religions I imagine it's possible.
In my Germany game I won by mistake with domination (since I had nuked every other civ to slow their fusion research) with Mongolia and Japan vassalizing which tipped me over the land criteria (I already had the population in Europe). So I went back and undid the vassalization, and still won in the same year--2012 I think.

 

[jessiecat]

Yes I'm just counting UHV victories, although with the destabilization of large empires it's tough to imagine a domination victory. Cultural is probably impossible due to the 50000 culture now needed for legendary, although if you have 3 or more religions I imagine it's possible.
In my Germany game I won by mistake with domination (since I had nuked every other civ to slow their fusion research) with Mongolia and Japan vassalizing which tipped me over the land criteria (I already had the population in Europe). So I went back and undid the vassalization, and still won in the same year--2012 I think.

Don't know about UHV victories on Emperor. Never tried it.
But how fast can you win a UHV on any level? As I mentioned in another
post, I recently won a fast UHV as the French on Viceroy. Had all the
conditions before 1750. Only the Eiffel Tower to go. Got that in 1778,
only 6 turns after the 1760 requirement. It may have been on easy,
but it couldn't get much faster, could it?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Don't know about UHV victories on Emperor. Never tried it.
But how fast can you win a UHV on any level? As I mentioned in another
post, I recently won a fast UHV as the French on Viceroy. Had all the
conditions before 1750. Only the Eiffel Tower to go. Got that in 1778,
only 6 turns after the 1760 requirement. It may have been on easy,
but it couldn't get much faster, could it?

Fastest win must be pre-BTS Babylon UHV--win in 6 minutes! (Now it's almost pure luck with Monarch level)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Usi, I just dupicated your Viking victory. Got a Shaka Zulu in 1500.
A couple small details (everybody knows that history as we know it was due to accidents of man and nature):
1. Avoid that independent trireme on your way to Rome (if it doesn't see you it won't attack)--it sank one of my galleys until I figured out I need to let it pass first.
2. Switch to HR, vassalage AND serfdom the first move--the extra turn of anarchy is worth it because for the longest time I couldn't figure out why I was unstable after conquering Rome (I needed the stability in the Feudal age with vassalage).
3. Portugal was a pet sinking ground for me--I needed to kill their carracks because they can go to South America with settlers and they kept on throwing their unpromoted carracks on my caravels (got 25 ships in 1450 and used most of my golden age starting 1475!)
4. Don't even try to get great merchants in Rome--the great priest will usually spawn. In fact use all its production rather to build caravels.
5. Don't really need caste system since with research at 0% and 1 great merchant it is enough for the 5000 gold in 1500. Almost forgot I need to whip that settler in Cuzcu.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Got my second highest score (20000) in 980 with Netherlands and Ethiopia as my vassals.
Trick is to collapse Egypt first and then Greece (since Pericles tends to turtle and not go for any military techs like Egypt), build Great Lighthouse and Colossus for the economy, go for Monarchy, Math (for catapults) and then kill Babylon. It was a little tricky around 300AD since Babylon collapsed leaving Hattusas enveloping my final dye, but I captured it and Gordion too.

Played a nasty trick on Arabia--gave them Jerusalem (which then they made their capital), and unfortunately for them there were 2 barb camel archers right outside their city. So they disappeared for a turn. Then they respawned with Sur and Jerusalem and one other city southeast of Babylon (which is mine) in the desert. I promptly declared war and recaptured Sur and Jerusalem, and finally got their small capital. Too bad this weakened me to prompt Persia to declare war on me with superior tech, but I won the war with war elephants and numbers and they had to cede a little city (Artacoana I think) to me.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Had to practice with monarch first. Took me 2 tries to get to spread my religions evenly. Then all those barbarian horse archers made me rethink my strategy--instead of building Shenyang, Dairen is better because it's on the coast (so gets a religion spread to it early), no forests immediately around it so my spearmen can kill the horse archers outside my walls. Also tried to build a cathedral in Xian but it was busy building spearmen, so instead Beijing had 2 cathedrals, Guiyang had one chopped and Hancheng had one whipped. (all the other cities either do not have enough production or don't grow quick enough). Barely squeaked in the 4 cathedrals by 990AD.
Then it's chariots, catapults (cheapest army units) until 1600AD. Khmer and India were vassals.

IS ANYBODY ELSE PLAYING EMPEROR UHVS??

 

[usi]

IS ANYBODY ELSE PLAYING EMPEROR UHVS??

Here I am.

I guess Malinese UHV is doable, so I tried it twice and got about 1700 and 1900 gold in 1300CE.
Nevertheless, eccentrics somewhere got more gold, and I failed the first UHV condition in both trials.

Now I'm working on the Whole Empire challenge, but I'll work on Emperor UHVs again later.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I guess Malinese UHV is doable, so I tried it twice and got about 1700 and 1900 gold in 1300CE.
Nevertheless, eccentrics somewhere got more gold, and I failed the first UHV condition in both trials.

No, I think as it is right now, unless France collapses, you'll never be first in gold in 1300. (I got 1700 twice and it wasn't enough)
I also tried it with the 3000BC unlocked file, and I got to 1800 gold with 4 cities, but somebody beat me again (probably Rome)
Before when Mali started out with 1200 gold instead of 600 it may have been possible, but now
1. nobody wants to open borders unless you trade them your trump card (Divine Right) for a song
2. fishing AND sailing takes more than 14 turns so getting harbors built before you build your cities is impossible; before (in Monarch), the migration technique (up to north Africa) is actually good because by the time you get there you'll have fishing and sailing.
3. even if you get the 1300 criteria, you cannot get any research done in time for feudalism, guilds, compass, banking, paper, all the good stuff that you need to get 500 gold per turn at the end.

I think if it is at all possible, Malian cities should start with libraries. (Since the University of Sankore was in Timbuktu, and in the game it's impossible to build it, all that learning should be represented by at least some libraries) Or an Islamic missionary to start would be good too.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Finally did Turkey, although I started with the 3000BC map and waited 40 minutes. Did not ever use the worldbuilder once, but I took over quite an impressive Babylonian empire (Artaxata north of Babylon had Moai Statues, Parthenon, Sistine Chapel) very quickly. Destroyed Arabia and Persia but kept them alive. Was starting to despair for a third vassal when Portugal, who was at war with Maya, wanted my protection (they were still very small). Arabia and Persia kept on trying to collapse so I was still not set.
Then a really strange thing happened...Russia having collapsed already, Germany declared war on me with infantry but didn't really attack me (I turtled in Dirac with lots of cannon and Janissaries). I must have built enough troops for Khmer and Mali to abandon their former master India (who was, up till now, the score leader, having an impressive technical lead on everybody) and to choose me as their master!! I quickly squeezed Arabia and Persia to death with my resource demands. I was set till 1870. Had the highest score, 2nd largest empire and 1st in population, extending from Aksum to north of the Black Sea, from Dirac to Shush.
Now if only the 600 AD start was so easy.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Key is to build a galley and send all troops to capture Keijo (2 starting swordsmen), Hangzhou (an archer) and Guangzhou (need to build a samurai to kill the spearman) even before doing anything else. Then it's the race to optics (first to Inca vassalizes him after capturing Cuzcu, and circumnavigation adds a lot to score), paper/education/liberalism (raises your score by almost 30 points if you get nationalism as your free tech), and building lots and lots of troops (will somehow influence China to be your vassal when Mongolia spawns). I also got got University of Sankore which helped with science. Built the Statue of Liberty with a saved engineer and 10 turns of handwringing suspense (since England had Democracy forever). I was first in score for the majority of the game (almost by 100 points in 1500) until superpowers like Russia and Spain caught up to me in the mid 1800's and an unfortunate plague hit me just at the end.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

3000BC is definitely easier than 600AD, because, Greece, Rome, Ethiopia are still alive. (Got actually 13 civs open borders with me; I haven't even contacted Russia, Mongolia who was destroyed by China). Good trick is to declare war on a "stable" civ, e.g. I opened borders with Japan (who NEVER opens borders otherwise) when China declared war on Japan and I joined the latter. Inca was interesting--Arabia almost killed it and it wanted to vassalize me. Well, I said, Arabia's going to vassalize you soon, so I might as well declare war on you and open borders with Arabia, another famous isolationist.
By far the most humiliating victory, but I got it in 1650.
BTW, I found that founding a city will count, even if you lose it by congress (I lost the "Cape of Good Hope" to Netherlands via congress but it still counted.

Here's a screenie of all my possible Emperor victories. I'm starting to think Persia is impossible due to lack of Great Wall and expensive Monarchy and Currency research, and I've given up on Egypt, since I got beaten every time on the Great Library)...all done without "cheating" (i.e. starting with another civ or editing my maps). Granted there was a lot of reloading.