What Desktop OS do you primarily use?

[CuddlyBear]

I've only had to use Windows 8 a couple of times and wow does it suck. My coworker bought a laptop with Windows 8 back when Windows 8 had just came out. She wanted some help with it because she couldn't have a DOC and a PDF open at the same time. Everytime she opened a PDF it went into that weird user interface Metro or whatever. How can they design something like this? It doesn't make any sense to jump from desktop to Metro. It's so stupid. If you're on the desktop, let the user stay on the desktop! Don't suddenly jump into Metro. It's pisspoor design and absolutely horrible from the usability standpoint. Did they even test Win 8 before release? No way I'm ever _paying_ for such garbage. Win 8 fail.

 

[Zelig]

That's a spurious complaint. The default PDF app happens to open in Metro, if you don't like it, install Adobe Reader.

Windows 7 doesn't come with any PDF app by default, so if you apply the same standards to Win7 you can't even open PDFs.

And even with the metro PDF app, it's still trivial to snap it to the side and have a DOC open at the same time, which you need to do with the desktop app anyway.

 

[CuddlyBear]

No it's a valid complaint. She couldn't even exit the Metro PDF app and get back to desktop. It's a useability nightmare swithcing from one environment to a totally different one. That's my complain, not wheter a PDF reader is installed by default or not. It adds nothing to the user to open one app in Metro and another one in desktop mode. Plus it opened the PDF in fullscreen. It only confuses the average user. It makes no sense and I have no idea why Microsoft would release such garbage. No wonder Windows 8 has failed in sells.

 

[Zelig]

You can close a Metro app the same way you close a desktop app, click in the top right, or hit alt+F4. If you want it to only take part of the screen, again, it's the same as a desktop app, you grab it at the top and drag it to where you want it. There are plenty of other ways to close Metro apps or return to the desktop. Your complaint seems to be "something changed and I don't know how to use it."

And how is "bad PDF app" worse than "no PDF app"?

 

[CuddlyBear]

You can close a Metro app the same way you close a desktop app, click in the top right, or hit alt+F4. If you want it to only take part of the screen, again, it's the same as a desktop app, you grab it at the top and drag it to where you want it. There are plenty of other ways to close Metro apps or return to the desktop. Your complaint seems to be "something changed and I don't know how to use it."

And how is "bad PDF app" worse than "no PDF app"?

Argh!

If you're using the desktop why should it suddenly switch to another user environment? That makes no sense and is horrible design. What does it add to the user to have two different environments? Absolutely nothing. It only confuses the user. You should not have to return to the desktop! You should stay at the desktop if you choose to use it. It shouldn't jump from desktop to fullscreen Metro. Can you not agree with this? Windows 8 is poorly designed and is a useability nightmare.

Edit:
Also the horizontal scrolling in some of the Metro apps. Why why why?!? Microsoft WTH? Horizontal scrolling in 2012? I remember some weather app where you scrolled horizontally with the mouse wheel (which makes no sense of course and is poor design) only for the scrolling to stop and it suddenly scrolled vertically. OMG what rubbish. How dare they even release broken software like this? We got rid of horizontal scrolling on web sites for a reason. It's bad design. Now MS decided to add it to their desktop OS?! Why? I don't get it.

 

[Zelig]

You never just randomly jump into Metro. You have to open a Metro app. If you don't want to open a Metro app, then don't open it.

I remember some weather app where you scrolled horizontally with the mouse wheel (which makes no sense of course and is poor design) only for the scrolling to stop and it suddenly scrolled vertically.

There is no Microsoft app that does this.

 

[CuddlyBear]

You never just randomly jump into Metro. You have to open a Metro app. If you don't want to open a Metro app, then don't open it.

How does the user know it opens a Metro app? It shouldn't open a Metro app when you're working on the desktop! It's bloody confusing for the user when you try to open a PDF document and it switches to some completely different looking user environment. Not every user knows about alt+tab, alt+F4 etc. They have no clue where the desktop disappeared when it jumps to Metro. They don't know how to resize the Metro app. It's an absolutely disaster by MS to release this junk. I have no idea what MS were thinking doing this.

There is no Microsoft app that does this.

It was installed by default on Windows 8 RTM which I tested some years ago so I'm pretty sure it was an app by Microsoft. I could remember wrong tho. Anyway the fact that it had horizontal scrolling makes it a horrible app.

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/horizontal-scrolling/
Some short article why horizontal scrolling is bad on the desktop.

 

[Zelig]

How does the user know it opens a Metro app? It shouldn't open a Metro app when you're working on the desktop! It's bloody confusing for the user when you try to open a PDF document and it switches to some completely different looking user environment. Not every user knows about alt+tab, alt+F4 etc. They have no clue where the desktop disappeared when it jumps to Metro. They don't know how to resize the Metro app. It's an absolutely disaster by MS to release this junk. I have no idea what MS were thinking doing this.

So then the user should open a different PDF app.

"I don't know how to use it" does not equal "it's a disaster".

Again, if you're using Windows 7, you can't open a PDF at all.

It was installed by default on Windows 8 RTM which I tested some years ago so I'm pretty sure it was an app by Microsoft. I could remember wrong tho.

Yup.

Anyway the fact that it had horizontal scrolling makes it a horrible app.

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/horizontal-scrolling/
Some short article why horizontal scrolling is bad on the desktop.

That's not explaining why horizontal scrolling is bad, it's a pro/con list, of which none of the cons apply to Windows 8. (1 - scrollbars are being deprecated, don't appear by default in either Win8 or Mac OS and it's trivial to not use them. 2 - Users will expect horizontal scrolling after a few days of use. 3 - Whatever you'd see vertically, except horizontal.)

 

[CuddlyBear]

So then the user should open a different PDF app.

"I don't know how to use it" does not equal "it's a disaster".

Again, if you're using Windows 7, you can't open a PDF at all.

Are you taking the piss at me? I don't give a damn if a PDF reader is installed or not. The UI is inconsistent all around. Use the desktop and boom it takes you to Metro. This shouldn't be allowed happen! That's the problem. It is a disaster if the users don't know how to use it. It's no wonder they don't know how to use it when they've mixed two user environments to create an inconsistent mess. Click the speaker icon on the desktop, then click the network icon and compare what happens. Two completely different UIs. Why? Two different control panels. Why? It's bad design. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Windows 8 sales show it's a disaster.

Yup.

I actually checked on Youtube and yes I remembered correctly. When you open the weather app and scroll down with your mouse wheel to move right (which makes no sense at all obv) you hit a spot where it starts scrolling vertically. It's a small thing but a huge design flaw. The app is broken.

That's not explaining why horizontal scrolling is bad, it's a pro/con list, of which none of the cons apply to Windows 8. (1 - scrollbars are being deprecated, don't appear by default in either Win8 or Mac OS and it's trivial to not use them. 2 - Users will expect horizontal scrolling after a few days of use. 3 - Whatever you'd see vertically, except horizontal.)

Empirical usability research shows that horizontal scrolling is rubbish. It's bad for the users. Google it. Almost every bloody Metro app installed by default I tried had horizontal scrolling. The start menu had horizontal scrolling. Why? I mean try it yourself. It's so much easier to grab the scrollbar on the right and move it vertically than on the bottom of the screen and move it horizontally. Horizontal scrolling makes sense with touch gestures but not with a mouse.

 

[Zelig]

Are you taking the piss at me? I don't give a damn if a PDF reader is installed or not. The UI is inconsistent all around. Use the desktop and boom it takes you to Metro.

That simply isn't the case. I use Win8 on a daily basis, and I never experience "boom I'm in Metro".

It is a disaster if the users don't know how to use it.

So is every OS.

It's no wonder they don't know how to use it when they've mixed two user environments to create an inconsistent mess. Click the speaker icon on the desktop, then click the network icon and compare what happens. Two completely different UIs. Why? Two different control panels. Why? It's bad design. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Yes, the volume slider is a bit weird, they should probably update it.

Windows 8 sales show it's a disaster.

XP rebound and bad press, no relation to OS quality.

I actually checked on Youtube and yes I remembered correctly. When you open the weather app and scroll down with your mouse wheel to move right (which makes no sense at all obv) you hit a spot where it starts scrolling vertically. It's a small thing but a huge design flaw. The app is broken.

Oh, you mean where a clearly tabular piece of data scrolls in the direction of the data?

I imagine you must be similarly opposed to any horizontal scrolling present in apps that scroll vertically. Damn Microsoft Word for desktop and that huge design flaw and broken app.

Empirical usability research shows that horizontal scrolling is rubbish. It's bad for the users. Google it.

Nah, link it. I don't think it's particularly important anyway regardless of result, given that I never need to scroll horizontally in Win8.

Almost every bloody Metro app installed by default I tried had horizontal scrolling. The start menu had horizontal scrolling. Why? I mean try it yourself. It's so much easier to grab the scrollbar on the right and move it vertically than on the bottom of the screen and move it horizontally. Horizontal scrolling makes sense with touch gestures but not with a mouse.

So don't use the metro apps if you don't like them. Most of the Windows 7 default apps also suck.

Why would I ever grab the scrollbar? I can use my mouse wheel. On the start menu I can just type the program name.

 

[CuddlyBear]

Sod off. This is going nowhere. You're not even denying the problems I've mentioned or tried to defend them. You're just saying: "I don't have those problems therefore you're doing it wrong."

Windows 8 gets bad press cus it sucks. That's it. It sucks! That's why people don't like it and it has failed in sales.

 

[peter grimes]

Moderator Action: Please don't insult people. Telling someone to "sod off" isn't constructive. Any more excesses and you'll likely be infracted.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Zelig]

Sod off. This is going nowhere. You're not even denying the problems I've mentioned or tried to defend them. You're just saying: "I don't have those problems therefore you're doing it wrong."

Windows 8 gets bad press cus it sucks. That's it. It sucks! That's why people don't like it and it has failed in sales.

You're saying "x is a problem because I don't know how to do it". I'm saying "I know how to do x and have never had the problem you describe".

Windows 8 gets bad press because MS is terrible at marketing and the press doesn't like them. Retail sales are pretty much irrelevant to total Windows sales - it's doing poorly in sales because the contingent of businesses who were still on XP are only upgrading to Win7 now - really no relation to anything present or absent in Win8.

Also it gets bad press from people who try it very briefly, notice stuff has changed and write it off as "waaaa change" without bothering to learn how to use it.


So I ask you: If Windows 8 sucks so much, what problems should I expect to have with it?

 

[Quintillus]

If Windows 8 were the cat's meow, business upgrading from XP would be going to it, not Windows 7. It's been out for over a year and a half now, which is enough time for businesses to start moving to it if they want to. Some of the preference for Windows 7 may be due to there being less change, but if the change had clear and significant benefits, that would outweigh aversion to change. IMO, for most users, Windows 8 doesn't have clear and significant benefits (tablet users and a few who like it being an exception).

I'm still perfectly happy staying with Windows XP, and have found that it isn't actually that difficult to remain up-to-date on patches with x64, even after April.

However, I'm sure some people will take issue with that, even though it's none of their business, so it's probably prudent to quote peter grimes' post.

Moderator Action: Please don't insult people. Telling someone to "sod off" isn't constructive. Any more excesses and you'll likely be infracted.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Zelig]

Businesses have long deployment plans and tend to stick to single OS versions. Most businesses already had some Win7 computers when Win8 was released, so continued to just migrate everything to Win7.

Otherwise I agree - Win8 is a superset of Windows7 features and pretty much no different than Win7 for desktop use. I use Win7 on my office desktop because I haven't felt like spending a day to set up Win8. My SSD will probably get annoyingly small in the next year or so, so I'll probably upgrade to Win8 when I move to a larger SSD.

OneDrive integration is a pretty clear and significant benefit for home users though.

OTOH, Windows XP is terrible, and XP x64 has always been nigh-unusable. I used XP x64 from its release until the release of Vista, and the upgrade to Vista resulted in an immediate "holy crap, everything just works!" compared to XP x64.

 

[Quintillus]

I'd read a lot about XP x64 being unusable. But after installing it on a desktop in 2011, it actually was surprisingly smooth (on my laptop from 2007, the SD card reader didn't have drivers, which was mildly annoying, and I eventually went back to x86). The only thing that doesn't work well is my early-2000's printer, and I don't have a cable long enough to connect it to my desktop from its current location, anyway. I think the release of Vista (Vista x64 in particular) actually helped XP x64 in terms of usability, since 64-bit driver development became more common and a fair amount of that ended up trickling down to XP x64, too.

We'll have to agree to disagree on XP being terrible, though. No point in arguing about that.

I hadn't thought of One Drive integration. The funny thing it's used at my place of employment (with 99% Windows 7 machines, but Office 2010/2013 depending on the computer), but I haven't used it at home since 2011, when I used SkyDrive for sharing pictures (which it was pretty good at). I suppose how much of a benefit it is depends on the home user's use pattern. For the average home user who never makes a backup, it may well be a significant upgrade. I'd rather just use my own storage, and Office 2013's desire to save to the cloud is mildly annoying, but for someone with no backups locally I can see the benefit.

Although what really annoys me about Office 2013 is the informal language. If I open Word 2010 and try to exit without saving, it asks, "Do you want to save your changes you made to Document1?" Very nice, descriptive, and proper. In Office 2013, it says something like "Want to save your changes to Document1?" What type of English is that? Texting English? I'm okay with the humorous sad face in the Windows 8 BSOD, but the informal language in Office 2013 just strikes me as unprofessional.

 

[Mise]

My company took years to migrate from XP to 7. Literally years. There are still XP virtual machines that we have to use because the software is incompatible with 7. Upgrading to 8 would take another 2-3 years, and probably won't ever happen. However, if we were to decide to upgrade today, it would be to Windows 8. Not an old version of Windows that is already out of date, not some future version of Windows that nobody can possibly plan for, but whichever version of Windows is most up to date at the time when the planning is done.

 

[Zelig]

I don't think printers ever work well. I've simply given up on them with my move to paperless, and plan on never owning one again.

I can send faxes, apply my signature and fill forms from my PC, so for the two times per year I need to print things I just use my work printer.

I haven't commented on OneDrive Pro for business simply because I haven't used it. MS is, as usual, bad/confusing with their branding, and OneDrive and OneDrive Pro are actually different products. (like the hotmail-based outlook.com email with no relation to Outlook, and the exchange based Office 365 web email)

Besides providing backups and syncing, OneDrive for home use also allows, depending on use case, better performance. My desktop/home server only has a 128 GB SSD Windows drive with access to all my OneDrive documents, since the entire files aren't locally synced.

 

[Quintillus]

Haha, that's a good point about printers never really working well. When my friends call me with technical questions, I always hope it's not about printers. Unfortunately it's not uncommon that it is about printers (why they think I know a lot about printers, I haven't figured out). I don't use mine very often anymore. Occasionally to print maps since I'm too cheap for a GPS/data plan, and once in a blue moon for paperwork (most recently taxes, which I sometimes file electronically, and sometime don't, whichever requires less effort in a given year). Hence why my printer is an early-2000s one that I inherited from my parents when they upgraded.

I didn't realize OneDrive Pro and One Drive were different products. I'd figured they were just different tiers of the same basic product, perhaps with some added features in the Pro version. But it's been a long time since I used the non-Pro version. The UI was different then, but I'd just thought the UI had changed over the years.

 

[timtofly]

I am glad when printers don't work well, because that's my job (repairing them). However most of the time unless there is an absolute physical problem with the printer or network hardware, it is always a corrupted file or user error. And before any one starts asking me a lot of questions, I only work on HP laser printers.