What do you consider Cheating?
- Thread starter Party
- Start date
My definition of cheating: using a feature for an unintended purpose. Regenerate map is there; why not use it? Quechua rush? That's just a strategy! Saving and reloading isn't FAIR, but it's not completely cheating. WB was meant for MODDING, so using it for cheating is cheating. And, yes, throwing pie at your computer hoping it will make the computer screw up and give you an advantage is cheating.
Hey guys,
I told you I'd think of more possible "cheatings" so here goes:
"Disabling any victory condition"
"Making there too many, or too few, civs on a custom game"
"Selecting Balanced resources"
"Selecting No City Razing"
There are tons of things a lot of us have done that others might consider cheating. But when we are playing to have fun, that is the primary goal. I guess I kinda equate this to board games with "House Rules." I've heard some that make sense (In monopoly, you get $500 for landing on go, instead of just $200) and some that are just plain silly (you cannot buy houses nor hotels, until you have the monopoly, AND every single piece of property has been bought or in Connect 4, a "5" or greater doesn't count as a win, because it's not 4.) However, these are my opinions. If you have fun reloading a map and playing it differently, who am I to say you're doing it wrong?
Party,
My cake comment was in reference to the FPS Portal. I was hoping there was an Orange Box fan or two here that would get it (I even linked to the Portal end song.) Alas, it looks like I'm alone. Just as fitting, though, as I'm the only FPS player I've known that also likes the Civ series.
Any Portal player would know "The cake is a lie!" and what a "Companion Cube" is. If you don't already know, don't ask.
I told you I'd think of more possible "cheatings" so here goes:
"Disabling any victory condition"
"Making there too many, or too few, civs on a custom game"
"Selecting Balanced resources"
"Selecting No City Razing"
There are tons of things a lot of us have done that others might consider cheating. But when we are playing to have fun, that is the primary goal. I guess I kinda equate this to board games with "House Rules." I've heard some that make sense (In monopoly, you get $500 for landing on go, instead of just $200) and some that are just plain silly (you cannot buy houses nor hotels, until you have the monopoly, AND every single piece of property has been bought or in Connect 4, a "5" or greater doesn't count as a win, because it's not 4.) However, these are my opinions. If you have fun reloading a map and playing it differently, who am I to say you're doing it wrong?
Party,
My cake comment was in reference to the FPS Portal. I was hoping there was an Orange Box fan or two here that would get it (I even linked to the Portal end song.) Alas, it looks like I'm alone. Just as fitting, though, as I'm the only FPS player I've known that also likes the Civ series.
Any Portal player would know "The cake is a lie!" and what a "Companion Cube" is. If you don't already know, don't ask.
Capt Buttkick
Emperor
In your own SP games, do what you feel like. I wouldn't consider anything "cheating" in a game you play for fun or to challenge yourself.
Having said that, you get bragging rights along the lines of winning a deity game on duel map, modern age start with Ghandi as your adversary![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
In organized contests like GotM or HoF you need to play by the rules which means no reloading and no advance map knowledge. This may be hard if you're using WB and/or reloading to compensate for poor strategy.
I like pie and FPS
Having said that, you get bragging rights along the lines of winning a deity game on duel map, modern age start with Ghandi as your adversary
In organized contests like GotM or HoF you need to play by the rules which means no reloading and no advance map knowledge. This may be hard if you're using WB and/or reloading to compensate for poor strategy.
I like pie and FPS
Party,
My cake comment was in reference to the FPS Portal. I was hoping there was an Orange Box fan or two here that would get it (I even linked to the Portal end song.) Alas, it looks like I'm alone. Just as fitting, though, as I'm the only FPS player I've known that also likes the Civ series.
Any Portal player would know "The cake is a lie!" and what a "Companion Cube" is. If you don't already know, don't ask.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean i've played it. My reference was to when
You finish the final task and are sent to "get baked" in the furnace.
The Orange box is a amazing deal ad everyone should buy it. I mean TF2, Portal, Halflife 2, Halflife 2 episode 1, Halflife 2 episode 2 all of $60!
Anyway that all does not matter since Halo > Every game ever made.
(yes I know i'm going to hell for saying that on a Civ forum...)
Party,
Ahh, that's what you meant! "Whoosh" That's the sound of the joke going over my head.
I never think about that part, becauseSpoiler :
The Orange box is incredible. I'm mostly a TF2 fan, but I'm a really weird player. I only play Medic
Okay, we're way off topic now!
Stolen Rutters
Deity
Pretending that pie has no calories is cheating. You can eat pie without cheating IF you take something away for that day that has the same nutritional value (skip the rice pudding, for example).
As for cheating.. For multiplayer, its completely and utterly intolerable in any way. Same goes for score contests on single player maps. Any kind of unfair advantage you get over the others is cheating period.
Cheating in single player is a completely different story. We are different, and find different things challenging / annoying. For some, trying to make the most out of a bad start is an interesting challenge. For me, its extremely annoying, simply because i know i'll bleed away before 0AD, resulting in me wasting hours on a game that i had no chance to win from the start.
Personally:
I do check the maps i play beforehand for necessary basic resources around my empire. (yes, in wb) Either copper, or iron MUST be present somewhere around - not necessarily close, but still within reasonable reach.
There is nothing more annoying for me than to play 3-4 hours only to be ran over by barbarians who come with axeman and swordsman versus my archer only (no copper or iron) army.
In lights of the above, i do regen maps that do not fit my above criteria witha few added extra requirements (like not being in middle of freakin jungle, or tundra), or if i dont like the general shape of the world i was given.
Apart from that, i also reload the game at times when i accidentally mess something up - like forget to kill a barb that was about to pillage (i always have the welcoming committee out there, but sometimes hit enter for next turn before i remember intercepting them).
Generally i dont like reloading.. Once i started a map, i consider it to be a challenge i accepted, and reloading is kind of abandoning it. So reload only if its something trivial i just overlooked or did accidentally.
In addition i consider the usage of certain wonders to be.. well, unfair against the AI. Like the great wall for example. If you play with raging barbs, its just not fair to build that, and get rid of a big part of the challenge.
Generally, there is no such thing as cheating in single player. Its just challenges you take, or refuse to take, or simply make easier.
Cheating in single player is a completely different story. We are different, and find different things challenging / annoying. For some, trying to make the most out of a bad start is an interesting challenge. For me, its extremely annoying, simply because i know i'll bleed away before 0AD, resulting in me wasting hours on a game that i had no chance to win from the start.
Personally:
I do check the maps i play beforehand for necessary basic resources around my empire. (yes, in wb) Either copper, or iron MUST be present somewhere around - not necessarily close, but still within reasonable reach.
There is nothing more annoying for me than to play 3-4 hours only to be ran over by barbarians who come with axeman and swordsman versus my archer only (no copper or iron) army.
In lights of the above, i do regen maps that do not fit my above criteria witha few added extra requirements (like not being in middle of freakin jungle, or tundra), or if i dont like the general shape of the world i was given.
Apart from that, i also reload the game at times when i accidentally mess something up - like forget to kill a barb that was about to pillage (i always have the welcoming committee out there, but sometimes hit enter for next turn before i remember intercepting them).
Generally i dont like reloading.. Once i started a map, i consider it to be a challenge i accepted, and reloading is kind of abandoning it. So reload only if its something trivial i just overlooked or did accidentally.
In addition i consider the usage of certain wonders to be.. well, unfair against the AI. Like the great wall for example. If you play with raging barbs, its just not fair to build that, and get rid of a big part of the challenge.
Generally, there is no such thing as cheating in single player. Its just challenges you take, or refuse to take, or simply make easier.
Okay, we're way off topic now!
Since it's my own thread we hijacked I think we're still good.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Save and reload is only NOT cheating in the context of a game crash where you have to go back several turns to your last save position, and perhaps in cases where you made an honest mistake (i.e., hitting [ENTER] before you actually wanted to end your turn.)
A Quecha rush is not cheating.
Worldbuilding is ALWAYS cheating.
Regeneration is probably cheating unless you hit "RETIRE" so that your Hall of Fame shows all the games you wimped out of.
A Quecha rush is not cheating.
Worldbuilding is ALWAYS cheating.
Regeneration is probably cheating unless you hit "RETIRE" so that your Hall of Fame shows all the games you wimped out of.
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
I say that gaining units via WB is like hiring mercenries or a random event.
aragami_frog
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2007
- Messages
- 53
I only enter worldbuilder when I know I can't win the save and to just have some fun to kill some time. I've never finished such a save after entering worldbuilder.
Last time I did it was because a nation like 30-40 turns into the start of the game declared war on me and took out one of my 3 cities and was located far away from my nation and I was destined to die.
I just entered worldbuilder and set a few other nations against him and rebuilt my one.
Last time I did it was because a nation like 30-40 turns into the start of the game declared war on me and took out one of my 3 cities and was located far away from my nation and I was destined to die.
I just entered worldbuilder and set a few other nations against him and rebuilt my one.
Sometimes when I know I'm gonna lose (or have lost and clicked just one more turn) I give myself one nuke for each of the winner's cities, and then when they have all esploded I have 5 Modern Armor placed to the north of each of them.
Or sometimes I declare war on everyone and delete all my units, seeing which one can kill me first.
Or sometimes I declare war on everyone and delete all my units, seeing which one can kill me first.
BrantleyL1
Warlord
Cheating?? Who are you cheating?
Honestly, I try and play the game straight. I don't reload, peek in worldbuilder, etc.
But it's a game. Not a competition. Now, if you are playing a competitive game than pretty much all of that is cheating.
You are not harming anyone. It's not like it's a test (in school).
We are all trying to learn and get better - so, if you start a war that proves to be unwise, why NOT go back and try it again? Build stronger and start the war later. You will NEVER be in exactly that situation again. So, as I see it, going back and trying it again - you will learn something.
All that said, I use "going back" very frugally. My current game - there is NO copper, iron, horses, etc nearby. The AIs apparently have plenty of those. But are strong now - too late for a archer rush. So, I am going to start over from the beginning. Reposition my cities slightly and archer rush a nearby civ. They have copper. Then I can work on real world domination.
It's no fun being frustrated.
Honestly, I try and play the game straight. I don't reload, peek in worldbuilder, etc.
But it's a game. Not a competition. Now, if you are playing a competitive game than pretty much all of that is cheating.
- If you don't like your starting position, why not regenerate?
- If you are not sure about if THIS war is a good idea, why not save and reload if it turns out bad?
- Why not restart & try and forget critical info that you know now?
- Why not give up if all seems lost?
You are not harming anyone. It's not like it's a test (in school).
We are all trying to learn and get better - so, if you start a war that proves to be unwise, why NOT go back and try it again? Build stronger and start the war later. You will NEVER be in exactly that situation again. So, as I see it, going back and trying it again - you will learn something.
All that said, I use "going back" very frugally. My current game - there is NO copper, iron, horses, etc nearby. The AIs apparently have plenty of those. But are strong now - too late for a archer rush. So, I am going to start over from the beginning. Reposition my cities slightly and archer rush a nearby civ. They have copper. Then I can work on real world domination.
It's no fun being frustrated.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
In your own SP games, do what you feel like. I wouldn't consider anything "cheating" in a game you play for fun or to challenge yourself.
Having said that, you get bragging rights along the lines of winning a deity game on duel map, modern age start with Ghandi as your adversary
In organized contests like GotM or HoF you need to play by the rules which means no reloading and no advance map knowledge. This may be hard if you're using WB and/or reloading to compensate for poor strategy.
well ... i'm a permanoob and a QM in HoF at the same time. which means i had to get a legit deity play-by-the-rules win. but mine was vs. Asoka not Gandhi, does that count? *gigglefest*
seriously, most games i play like HoF games even if i don't submit them. but there was a while this summer when i was pretty darn sick, and on heavy medication, and i had a heck of a lot of fun playing with worldbuilder, it completely fit my mood at the time.
"hey, the label on this cough syrup says i can't drive. it doesn't say i can't edit the .xml to give myself every trait. let's see what that's like..." it was kinda overpowered, in case you wondered. i completely clobbered everybody, it rocked hardcore.pshaw. pie has calories. the trink is that they're completely canceled out if you drink diet coke with it! my father came up with that diet plan when i was in junior high. for him, it doesn't work out that well, he's got more weight issues now than he did then :eyeroll:. but it works great for me
.JustinianVII
Prince
Not really sure I consider that cheating. Maybe someone just wants to play and beat the game by a good old-fashioned slugfest, rather than Diplomatic, Cultural, or Space Race. To me, it seems to be more of a preference than lowering the bar to one's advantage.
Right right, JustinianVII!
You wouldn't consider it cheating, but someone else might.
That's why I said "possible." If this poll were to be redone, it would need about 4x as many options as it currently has.
King Flevance
Deity
Save/Reload - Cheating. I have done it.
Quecha rushing - Not cheating. Never done it. Although I have axe rushed Huayna many times.
Regenerate starting spot - Not Cheating. The game hasn't started yet. This one is on the borderline though. I usually don't regenerate but I have.
World builder to add/remove anything. - Cheating. However, I use world builder to raze my own roads until I can figure out how to add in my new command through modding. And I dont consider this cheating as I cover the minimap and zoom in on the road tile so I can't see any possible nearby resouces. Sometimes the road happens to be on one but I just ignore it. Not like that gives any "key info" anyways. KNowing I have Uranium/Aluminum in the medieval age gives me no edge.
World Builder to gain info - Cheating.
World Build in general - Cheating.
I like Pie - Not cheating. Pie is tastey. While its unfair the AI cannot ever eat pie I may go as far to call it an exploit due to being extremely unfair. But certainly not cheating.
Quecha rushing - Not cheating. Never done it. Although I have axe rushed Huayna many times.
Regenerate starting spot - Not Cheating. The game hasn't started yet. This one is on the borderline though. I usually don't regenerate but I have.
World builder to add/remove anything. - Cheating. However, I use world builder to raze my own roads until I can figure out how to add in my new command through modding. And I dont consider this cheating as I cover the minimap and zoom in on the road tile so I can't see any possible nearby resouces. Sometimes the road happens to be on one but I just ignore it. Not like that gives any "key info" anyways. KNowing I have Uranium/Aluminum in the medieval age gives me no edge.
World Builder to gain info - Cheating.
World Build in general - Cheating.
I like Pie - Not cheating. Pie is tastey. While its unfair the AI cannot ever eat pie I may go as far to call it an exploit due to being extremely unfair. But certainly not cheating.
What about out-and-out quitting a game near the beginning, if you discover you're playing against someone you really hate?
I started a game last night, and quit as soon as I met Monty. Man, I hate having him as a neighbor!! Plus, panthers ate the first settler I was able to build - totally wasting about 25 turns of build and move time.
So I quit that game and started a new one. Is that cheating? I don't think so.... I would have hated that game and was doomed to never finish it.
Amy
I started a game last night, and quit as soon as I met Monty. Man, I hate having him as a neighbor!! Plus, panthers ate the first settler I was able to build - totally wasting about 25 turns of build and move time.
So I quit that game and started a new one. Is that cheating? I don't think so.... I would have hated that game and was doomed to never finish it.
Amy
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