What do you think about the voice acting in Civ 6?

[Kimiimaro]

There sure is a difference between good voice acting and gramatically correct voice acting. Attila from Civ V is a great example. His voice acting was nice, since he really sounded like a fearsome and bloodthirsty warmongering warrior, but about the grammar part... We all know that even the Chuvash speakers couldn't fully understand him.

I'd like to keep the native languages, but I'd rather have them to fit the character and with grammar mistakes, rather than 100% correct and boring. I just want the leaders sound like they have personality, in which, IMO, was Civ V mostly better than Civ VI. Bored Augustus, strong Ashurbanipal, rigid Bismarck, or friendly Ahmad al-Mansur...

I mean... Take Pedro II. In Civ V, I see an old and tired man, who is tirelessly working for his beloved people and who tries to bring Brazil towards glory. What I see in Civ VI: "You took Gustave Eiffel? I can't have all the great people for myself?! I denounce you!"

Although the music, character model and background also helped in Civ V. Pedro has slow and somewhat sad sounding peace music, you see him working in his study and you also see the dark sky behind him. He also looks like a respectable old and tired man. Compare this to guy with huge red nose standing in a random dark room and with carnival music playing in the background...

 

[halfhalfharp]

What? Why? Only speakers of those languages know if it is correct or not, but how good the voice acting is can be judged by anyone. And it sure isn't inaccuracy that 'ruins' the leader screens, but bad voice acting. Some people care that Cleo, Tomyris and Frederick aren't speaking the correct languages of their times, far less people are interested in the grammatical mistakes in their lines. But we all care if the lines aren't delivered with expression, with a nice voice and fitting to the animation.

Yep. There are many criticism about their correctness of language. That's true and a worth-debating issue.
But we won't see Ossetic/Middle Egyptian/German covering all the games' language delivery so using English to cover all is as terrible in that sense.

Also keep in mind that the leaders talking is a feature of only the last two civ games and I wouldn't it consider "one of the best features in civ series." It is a whole lot of work for only a little bit of immersion. It is nicer than the silent nods etc. of civ IV in my opinion, but there is still way too much silence and not enough lines to make the leaders screens really immersive. As a feature it is way too half-baked to be a core thing (and of course doesn't add to the gameplay). I really wish Firaxis would invest more time in gameplay and AI development instead of in these shenanigans that most players click away quickly or disable after a few games anyway. (If I want to hear how certain languages sound there are plenty of other ways to do that)

In the end it seems to be about personal preferences. Silent leaders - Native languages - All english - No leader animations and voice acting at all. You'll easily find people that prefer any of those and make a case for it.

I also think it is a good idea to look at other games and game series how they handled the issue. The approach of civ V and VI isn't very common. Most games that have people/leaders you encounter speaking to you translate the lines or have them in english for all localizations. An exception that comes to mind are the Knights of the old republics games that have aliens speak like they do in the movies, which makes a lot of sense for this game and adds to immersion. Age of Empires and most other famous RTS like most C&C, WarCraft, StarCraft etc have all longer dialogues translated into english, usually with accents if appropriate while units often respond in 'native' languages where appropriate. Most RPGs that I played where you often meet people that speak foreign languages also translate voice acting into english with accents. Now, you can make a case that it is a unique feature of the newer civ titles and thus shouldn't be abandoned. But in that case, they should aim for more quality. To get back to age of empires example: just look how it evolved from AoE I to AoE II (both in game and narrations) to AoM and AoE III. It got way better with every game. (I still wonder why the Greeks in AoM have no accent when talking english though...) Civ V to Civ VI isn't that much of an upgrade in that regard. We have some more fitting languages now, but the number of lines wasn't significantly increased and the voice acting itself isn't better imho.

Maybe its not such "core" when compared to many other essential features (like CUA and leaders) but it certainly stands out in the game market as I have never seen a multi-lingual game like this. Personally I really hope that they can speak more ofc. That's something that gives higher immersion.

I will argue that AOE series' VA focus on the Civ that we are playing, i.e., we will hear turkish when we play as turks. But they do not give that immersion of who your enemies are. If we are facing Japan in the game, we will never hear a single Japanese word in the game, except in cinematic, ofc.

If we are taking other games with high linguistic immersion as examples. I will suggest Nioh as a reference. They have done a great job to create the atmosphere, although some of the narratives and subtitles are in english. All the characters speak their natural native languages (Japanese, in most cases) under most circumstances and render the player feel like he is a true foreigner. That should set an example for depicting an experience in a foreign land.

 

[Morningcalm]

How good does the VA in native languages sound like, only native speakers can know. They will still give the realistic feelings for non speakers, who are majorities.

But having the VA speaks English, everyone will be able to judge and criticize.

Thus language inaccuracy doesn't reduce the realistic feeling into dust, I supposed. Accuracy of a few languages and totally not doing the languages for the whole game are two different levels.

Even if there is a miss in language accuracy from leaders to leaders, for example, Attila from Civ V, doesn't hinder the realistic atmosphere for most players, who are non speakers of the language.

At least he is speaking Garbage Chuvash rather than English. And we won't feel like everyone that we encounter is from post British colonies. Language inaccuracy/VA not meeting expectations here can be tolerated for me, but not a language mis-selection for the whole game.

And please stop using AoE series to compare. Civ series have a diplomatic screen for every encountered leader. That is where their VAs should be focused on rather than the units/narrative cinematics. Its all okay to speak eng if we remove this feature, muting the leaders' lines for good and tearing away one of the best features in Civ series. But hearing them all speak English demerits the whole game.

Yes, everyone is a critic. Which is why sometimes it's fine to experiment with a new style. Civ VI did that with a graphical style and interface many reviled and mocked as childish or Facebook game-like. But it is lively (rather than bland) and some like that. The same could be said of a new approach where AI leaders combine English with the actual language (I.e. "Ahnyonghashimni-ggah. I am Sejong, humble servant of my people. I seek to understand the world so that I may better the lives of others. I wonder, are you of the same mind?") Select lines could be delivered in the original language (like some one-word war declarations). It would aid understanding and coherency, and allow professional VAs to shine. Especially given, for example, how poorly delivered Sejong's lines in Civ V were.

I refuse to stop comparing Civ AI voiceover to Age III AI voiceover. The two are almost identical in purpose, with the AI reacting to your ingame deeds and misdeeds in a flavorful way (notably, the Age III AI also have wonderful Surrender request lines, which are reminiscent of the Civ AI Defeated lines).

Nothing I have suggested implies "muting" the leaders is what I want. Rather, less wonky or downright inaccurate translations work.

You mention Attila--I think he had an excellent voice actor and terrible translations. He's a key example of someone who would come off better in a mixed English-Chuvash voice over. Similarly, the weakest voice actors in Age III AI actually came from the ethnically/linguistically correct voice actors (Hiawatha was voiced by a Native American, Ashoka by an Indian). The best came from (typically) foreign voice actors who nonetheless did an excellent job at imbuing the leaders with character and historical flavor. (And as you can see from the link, there was a significant effort nevertheless to cast secondary characters with people more ethnically appropriate.)

I remember with great fondness Suleiman's proverbs in Age III (many drawn from Suleiman's actual writings, according to designer Sandy Petersen).

 

[Art Morte]

My favorite is the bit where Wilhelmina has a fervent desire.

 

[halfhalfharp]

There sure is a difference between good voice acting and gramatically correct voice acting. Attila from Civ V is a great example. His voice acting was nice, since he really sounded like a fearsome and bloodthirsty warmongering warrior, but about the grammar part... We all know that even the Chuvash speakers couldn't fully understand him.

I'd like to keep the native languages, but I'd rather have them to fit the character and with grammar mistakes, rather than 100% correct and boring. I just want the leaders sound like they have personality, in which, IMO, was Civ V mostly better than Civ VI. Bored Augustus, strong Ashurbanipal, rigid Bismarck, or friendly Ahmad al-Mansur...

I mean... Take Pedro II. In Civ V, I see an old and tired man, who is tirelessly working for his beloved people and who tries to bring Brazil towards glory. What I see in Civ VI: "You took Gustave Eiffel? I can't have all the great people for myself?! I denounce you!"

Although the music, character model and background also helped in Civ V. Pedro has slow and somewhat sad sounding peace music, you see him working in his study and you also see the dark sky behind him. He also looks like a respectable old and tired man. Compare this to guy with huge red nose standing in a random dark room and with carnival music playing in the background...

Yeah thats an accurate description of what I feel as well. Thats a combination of background designs, character designs and Music selection, although the VA also plays an important role in further dissatisfaction. I prefer to give the blame to the background design above the others, but thats not the main topic of this thread.

The same could be said of a new approach where AI leaders combine English with the actual language (I.e. "Ahnyonghashimni-ggah. I am Sejong, humble servant of my people. I seek to understand the world so that I may better the lives of others. I wonder, are you of the same mind?") Select lines could be delivered in the original language (like some one-word war declarations). It would aid understanding and coherency, and allow professional VAs to shine. Especially given, for example, how poorly delivered Sejong's lines in Civ V were.

If the lines starts with "Ahnyonghashimni-ggah" and then the rest becomes Korean accented Japanese, will you appreciate it as well? Thats what other language speakers shall feel when you are using English to cover all.

If the answer is no, then I think we should reconsider how biased it is to use English as the main language delivery, for a game facing players from all over the world and having a lot of language versions for this purpose, especially when it has already gone for native languages deliveries.

 

[God of Kings]

What do the Chinese think of the AoE series (including AoM, which has a Chinese-flavoured expansion pack)?

 

[Xur]

1. The leaders are fluff imo. Their constant trade offers / popups annoy me more than anything. Combine that with agendas, and I'm in a position where I automatically hate quite a lot leaders. That in turn get linked to their voice, so I dunno if the "actor" is at fault.

2. The silly tech/culture quotes are maybe also partially the reason why I dislike Sean Bean in civ6.

All in all, I've turned all voice / music off and listen to something else. Music isn't a voice, but it is also annoying playing as a European civ and get constant jungle drums or asian music. I really dislike that you almost never get your own music. The worst thing ever is to meet Australia, and get stuck with that crap awful Mathilda music.

 

[Ever Adrift]

I don't have voices on for leaders - I also play in strategic view... the game can move so slow that I do all I can to limit the computing power it needs.

That said, I do have an opinion on Sean Bean and the quotes used for civics/science... Bean is surprisingly bad. I figured he would be perfect, given GoT - but it definitely feels like he is phoning it in here. It doesn't help that the quotes are awful. Worst of any civ game - too many really modern, Western quotes for old civics and science. Seems to me that quotes actually from the proper era should have been used...

As a result, I continually change the spoken language to hear people other than Bean read the quotes in other languages. Have it set to Russian now, waiting to a subpoena from the Special Counsel

All that said, no one will ever do better than Leonard Nimoy did.

Unless they get someone like Christopher Walken, haha

 

[halfhalfharp]

What do the Chinese think of the AoE series (including AoM, which has a Chinese-flavoured expansion pack)?

They have got local chinese voice actors for the cinematics and narratives so I think they don't have the complains in AoE/AoM series.

 

[Morningcalm]

If the lines starts with "Ahnyonghashimni-ggah" and then the rest becomes Korean accented Japanese, will you appreciate it as well? Thats what other language speakers shall feel when you are using English to cover all.

If the answer is no, then I think we should reconsider how biased it is to use English as the main language delivery, for a game facing players from all over the world and having a lot of language versions for this purpose, especially when it has already gone for native languages deliveries.

Lol. It would be in Korean-accented English, not Japanese. So it would not be offensive. Of course, as there currently regional variants of Civ, it's not like everyone would be forced to get the English version--there would be Korean-accented Japanese for a Japanese release, Korean-accented French for a French release, etc.

Many games already have such variability in voiceover. It's not controversial in the slightest, and comparable to how foreign movies get dubbing or new voice over for ease of understanding. Not all that voice acting is bad either (many Studio Ghibli films were dubbed in English for American releases and they were fine). And Civ already features regional voice over for tech and civic quotes, civ intros, etc.

 

[Kimiimaro]

(many Studio Ghibli films were dubbed in English for American releases and they were fine)

By mentioning this, you've reminded me Spirited Away and Porco Rosso. Now I have to fight with the urge to watch these great films again.

 

[Guandao]

How do we create an accent in English for Akkadian-speaking leaders? Or for other extinct languages, in general?

Will the Roman leader sounds like Ezio from AC2? With an Italianish accent? Should the Assyrian/Babylonian leaders have Arabic English accents? Same goes for the ancient Egyptian leader? or the Carthaginian one?

How does a Mayan accent sound like in English? Or in Quechua? Perhaps, they will sound like Guatemalan/Peruvian Spanish speakers speaking English?

I think ethnically correct voice actors (like Hiawatha and Akbar in AoE3) put out mediocre performances sometimes, because they weren't trained to do voice acting. VA work in the USA at least is still dominated by White Americans....I'm actually very interested in VA and can easily identify many well known American voice actors by listening to a clip of their work.

It just seems like a lot of work, even more than the voice acting now. We have to dub parts in English, French, Spanish, German, Polish, Russian, Chinese, etc. That's a lot of different voice actors to hire.

For all its faults, I still prefer the "native" languages approach. I think it's improved with Civ6. Sure we have Gilgamesh speaking Akkadian, Gitarja saying Indonesia, Seondeok saying Korea, and Victoria being.....idk.

 

[Zaarin]

VA work in the USA at least is still dominated by White Americans....

Is it? I mean, sure, I can think of plenty of prominent white VAs like Jennifer Hale, Grey DeLisle, Mark Meer, Tara Strong, etc., but I can also think of plenty of notable nonwhite VAs: Masasa Moyo (Silk Fox in Jade Empire, Vella in Broken Age; African-American); Cree Summer (Numbuh 5 and Cree Lincoln in Codename: Kids Next Door, Yzma in The Emperor's New Groove; African-Canadian); Kimberley Brooks (Ashley Williams in Mass Effect; African-American); Lea Salongea (Jasmine in Aladdin, singing voice of Mulan; Filipina-American); Jackie Chan (Chinese-American); Shohreh Aghdashloo (Shala'Raan in Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3; Iranian American--I love her voice, wish she'd do more voice work)...But yeah, not many Native American/First Nations VAs.

 

[Guandao]

Is it? I mean, sure, I can think of plenty of prominent white VAs like Jennifer Hale, Grey DeLisle, Mark Meer, Tara Strong, etc., but I can also think of plenty of notable nonwhite VAs: Masasa Moyo (Silk Fox in Jade Empire, Vella in Broken Age; African-American); Cree Summer (Numbuh 5 and Cree Lincoln in Codename: Kids Next Door, Yzma in The Emperor's New Groove; African-Canadian); Kimberley Brooks (Ashley Williams in Mass Effect; African-American); Lea Salongea (Jasmine in Aladdin, singing voice of Mulan; Filipina-American); Jackie Chan (Chinese-American); Shohreh Aghdashloo (Shala'Raan in Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3; Iranian American--I love her voice, wish she'd do more voice work)...But yeah, not many Native American/First Nations VAs.

There are some nonwhite VAs (African American ones especially like Kevin Michael Richardson and Phil Lamarr). Even Asian American ones like Eric Bauza, James Sie (who actually voiced Jackie Chan/and Shendu in Jackie Chan Adventures), Kaji Tang, Gwendoline Yeo, Stephanie Sheh, Kim Mai Guest, Kelly Hu, etc. I'm not sure if I consider Jackie Chan "Chinese-American" though lol. I guess the situation is changing and more non-White VAs exist now. I'm probably exaggerating to some extent by calling American voice acting "dominated by White Americans".

Shame about the Native American/First Nations VAs though. I know of a few from DC/Marvel animation. The Native American characters in American comics tend to be very stereotypical (Plains Indian) except for a few exceptions. DC even had a couple of Native American villains who was to get "revenge against the White man".

 

[Zaarin]

Also Sumalee Montano, who voiced the Female Inquisitor in Dragon Age: Inquisition; couldn't tell you what she sounds like, though, because I kinda adore Alix Wilton Regan to pieces.

 

[halfhalfharp]

There are some nonwhite VAs (African American ones especially like Kevin Michael Richardson and Phil Lamarr). Even Asian American ones like Eric Bauza, James Sie (who actually voiced Jackie Chan/and Shendu in Jackie Chan Adventures), Kaji Tang, Gwendoline Yeo, Stephanie Sheh, Kim Mai Guest, Kelly Hu, etc. I'm not sure if I consider Jackie Chan "Chinese-American" though lol. I guess the situation is changing and more non-White VAs exist now. I'm probably exaggerating to some extent by calling American voice acting "dominated by White Americans".

Shame about the Native American/First Nations VAs though. I know of a few from DC/Marvel animation. The Native American characters in American comics tend to be very stereotypical (Plains Indian) except for a few exceptions. DC even had a couple of Native American villains who was to get "revenge against the White man".

I will say Jackie Chan is American Chinese, rather than Chinese American, I supposed, as he wasn't born in America, but in Hong Kong.

But anyway chinese american/american chinese will be a terrible choice for VA as they actually speak a relatively "American" accent in the ears of chinese using English as their 2nd language. Again, accent is a very biased thing and it only sounds right to a portion of people in a corner/section of the world.

And I can't agree more, to your mentions of ancient languages before "English" ever existed. If we gonna reconstruct an English accent with the dead languages, why shouldnt we just use those languages in VA?

Btw, I am really curious in how Firaxis recruit those voice actors?

 

[Zaarin]

I will say Jackie Chan is American Chinese, rather than Chinese American, I supposed, as he wasn't born in America, but in Hong Kong.

For most English speakers, an American Chinese would be an American citizen of non-Chinese descent who was born in China; a Chinese-American would be someone of Chinese ethnicity with American citizenship.

 

[halfhalfharp]

For most English speakers, an American Chinese would be an American citizen of non-Chinese descent who was born in China; a Chinese-American would be someone of Chinese ethnicity with American citizenship.

Oh yeah, I am not that good with Eng sorry for the silly mistake. But what I am trying to say is that, he wasnt american born, that makes me think that he is more chinese in origin, compared to many american born chinese, who speak English as a native language.

But anyway its a minor detail.

Lol. It would be in Korean-accented English, not Japanese. So it would not be offensive. Of course, as there currently regional variants of Civ, it's not like everyone would be forced to get the English version--there would be Korean-accented Japanese for a Japanese release, Korean-accented French for a French release, etc.

Many games already have such variability in voiceover. It's not controversial in the slightest, and comparable to how foreign movies get dubbing or new voice over for ease of understanding. Not all that voice acting is bad either (many Studio Ghibli films were dubbed in English for American releases and they were fine). And Civ already features regional voice over for tech and civic quotes, civ intros, etc.

And then they will have to hire a specific team to do the accented native language for every language version?
Oh, my... that cost much more than just going specific native languages, which is a relatively low-cost, cleaner, more accurate, and faster way to solve it.
And I wonder, if Koreans ever know what korean french sounds like.

 

[Morningcalm]

And then they will have to hire a specific team to do the accented native language for every language version?
Oh, my... that cost much more than just going specific native languages, which is a relatively low-cost, cleaner, more accurate, and faster way to solve it.
And I wonder, if Koreans ever know what korean french sounds like.

They already hire a specific team to do that for each region. The voice actress of Seondeok was also part of the voiceover team for Civ V and detailed the hours spent on voicework for both V and VI in an interview which Sarah Darney linked in these forums.

Specific native languages are not more accurate, as already discussed. (How could it be, given who they have cast for each leader? Only a few are deemed accurate, and many note even seeming fluent native speakers hired for the roles make curious grammar choices in their lines.)

And again, they already did specific voice over for each region, so the cost would not be prohibitive, especially compared to most modern RPGs. The entire point of having region-specifc voices is to encourage better voice acting and accuracy.

Several Koreans do know what Korean-accent French sounds like. And if they didn't, I hardly see how it would matter--the French would be listening to the French version, not Koreans to the French version. Unless said Koreans are fluent in French, raising the likelihood they know what Korean-accented French sounds like. XD

How do we create an accent in English for Akkadian-speaking leaders? Or for other extinct languages, in general?

Will the Roman leader sounds like Ezio from AC2? With an Italianish accent? Should the Assyrian/Babylonian leaders have Arabic English accents? Same goes for the ancient Egyptian leader? or the Carthaginian one?

How does a Mayan accent sound like in English? Or in Quechua? Perhaps, they will sound like Guatemalan/Peruvian Spanish speakers speaking English?

I think ethnically correct voice actors (like Hiawatha and Akbar in AoE3) put out mediocre performances sometimes, because they weren't trained to do voice acting. VA work in the USA at least is still dominated by White Americans....I'm actually very interested in VA and can easily identify many well known American voice actors by listening to a clip of their work.

It just seems like a lot of work, even more than the voice acting now. We have to dub parts in English, French, Spanish, German, Polish, Russian, Chinese, etc. That's a lot of different voice actors to hire.

For all its faults, I still prefer the "native" languages approach. I think it's improved with Civ6. Sure we have Gilgamesh speaking Akkadian, Gitarja saying Indonesia, Seondeok saying Korea, and Victoria being.....idk.

You wouldn't necessarily need an accent. See for example Age of Empires III. Not all the AI there have distinguishable accents as such (like Cuauhtemoc). And in Age II, the Saladin campaign narrator didn't have a recognizable accent as such.

For Akkadian, you could easily just glean what you can from the language and come up with something more reasonable than say, Rameses II speaking Arabic.

And yes, oftentimes ethnically appropriate actors are not the best at voice acting. As this thread is about voice acting rather than linguistic accuracy per se, my suggestion is for a more accurate, region specific approach that would make for more readily understood, historically flavorful, and flavorful characters in Civ games. Firaxis may opt in any event to continue getting "accurate" people to speak each foreign language, but I think it's safe to say most such people are bad at voice acting. Simple inflection would go a long way.

Also, I note that Augustus in Civ V had Italian-accented Latin. You can tell from the cadence.

 

[God of Kings]

Also, I note that Augustus in Civ V had Italian-accented Latin. You can tell from the cadence.

Interestingly enough, Augustus's voice actor is not ethnically Italian.