What do you think of the Civ VI great people?

The AI will likely get a GP even if you don't pass, since there are several to choose from, so the AI will have a different advantage if you don't pass, but they will have it. Passing is not very interesting, though, because it's done blindly and you don't know what you'll get. I wonder if anyone ever uses this mechanism?
I frequently pass. Any Great Merchant before industrial era is pass because you will always want to save up points to grab Adam Smith. I pretty much always pass on great engineers that provides housing and amineties. Great Scientist also often pass.
 
The AI will likely get a GP even if you don't pass, since there are several to choose from, so the AI will have a different advantage if you don't pass, but they will have it. Passing is not very interesting, though, because it's done blindly and you don't know what you'll get. I wonder if anyone ever uses this mechanism?

Well, sometimes they do, but usually not because I chose to pass. If I see that the next one is one that I particularly want (Adam Smith, for example), I make deliberate efforts to get him/her, through projects, patronage or, as a last resort (such as Carl Sagan in a Science Victory), invading the one closest to get him/her.

But those are likely the ones post-Renaissance, and by then I have enough districts and building to get them. Sometimes I even lock out the AI from getting them by grabbing all 3 from an era and advancing to the next era GP; the AI can't generate enough points to cover that gap.
 
I think the system is much more engaging. However,
1.) My chief complaint is that they need to balance them out. The best are indispensable for certain victory conditions, a few provide good bonuses to most every situation, but most provide nearly meaningless bonuses to very situational circumstances. They need to dumb-down Adam Smith and Sagan (those bonuses should require two great people) and provide additional bonuses to the majority of the Great People who fall into the weakest category.
2.) Since many of the bonuses they provide are situational, it would be great to have an option of either selecting the unique bonus that a specific great person provides or a generalized type bonus for that class of great person. This kind of calls back to Civ5 as a unique tile improvement would be a good candidate for the generalized type bonus.
3.) Adding on to the second point, the great general bonuses are often pretty useful, but it's silly that they become obsolete after their current (or sometimes current plus subsequent) era units obsolete. It would be a good option if the great generals (and possibly all great people could have this option) could be expended to create some great work. most likely a relic. I'm not too fluent with the different types of great works in the game yet, but I believe this would also help as relics are difficult to come by as they (correct me if I'm thinking of the wrong type) can only be acquired by two means, either through huts (which stinks for people like me who play with huts off) or by intentionally killing your religious units.
 
It's certainly a refreshing change from the endless threads citing the AI shortcomings, 1UPT echo chambers, and the needless bashing of posters that prefer earlier iterations of Civ games.

I think I've said this before, but despite how hard I've been on Civ VI in several threads, I actually like a lot of what it does and have enjoyed it to some extent (I have over 200 hours played now and am waiting for an update/mod tools before playing more). Civ VI is not a horribly broken game. And the Great Person system is a good example I think of what it does well. But it makes so many simple, stupid missteps that it's incredibly frustrating. Things they got right in the past and we're just going through the motions again until the people working on the game realize that and catch up.

Going on a forum to complain about a game I don't actually like doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Though I'm certain there are some posters here who do that, I'm not one of them. I complain because I care.
 
1.) My chief complaint is that they need to balance them out. The best are indispensable for certain victory conditions, a few provide good bonuses to most every situation, but most provide nearly meaningless bonuses to very situational circumstances. They need to dumb-down Adam Smith and Sagan (those bonuses should require two great people) and provide additional bonuses to the majority of the Great People who fall into the weakest category.
I've been thinking about what can be done about Adam Smith apart from just removing him. I just had a thought. What if his effect was changed to something like: Grants an extra economy slot to the merchant republic government? This could be supplemented with a one-time bonus of some sort. The point of this would be that the effect would become more time-limited and would not be universally good, but would tie in with a subset of strategies through the link to a specific government. Apart from being more balanced, this would also have the advantage of opening for many more great people that grant policy slots to certain governments.
 
3.) Adding on to the second point, the great general bonuses are often pretty useful, but it's silly that they become obsolete after their current (or sometimes current plus subsequent) era units obsolete. It would be a good option if the great generals (and possibly all great people could have this option) could be expended to create some great work. most likely a relic. I'm not too fluent with the different types of great works in the game yet, but I believe this would also help as relics are difficult to come by as they (correct me if I'm thinking of the wrong type) can only be acquired by two means, either through huts (which stinks for people like me who play with huts off) or by intentionally killing your religious units.

They also come from Kandy's suzerain bonus. Another one is generated by Jeanne d'Arc.

Great Generals are fine for me, they give bonuses for military, you just need to use them wisely. Free tier 4 promotions, powerful units (sometimes before the required tech) or forming Corps and Armies before the civic comes are worth it, in my opinion. I recall a story about MP where people would rage-quit because someone hoarded Great Generals and they had a Cavalry army with many promotions in the early Renaissance.

I've been thinking about what can be done about Adam Smith apart from just removing him. I just had a thought. What if his effect was changed to something like: Grants an extra economy slot to the merchant republic government? This could be supplemented with a one-time bonus of some sort. The point of this would be that the effect would become more time-limited and would not be universally good, but would tie in with a subset of strategies through the link to a specific government. Apart from being more balanced, this would also have the advantage of opening for many more great people that grant policy slots to certain governments.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Tying Great People bonuses to governments limits strategies, in my opinion. Just like those Yu-Gi-Oh! cards that have great synergy with one or two cards, but in other situations are completely useless.

I figure it would be good if it converted a slot of your choice into an Economic or Wildcard slot. You still get the same number of slots, which means you need to trade off.
 
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Tying Great People bonuses to governments limits strategies, in my opinion. (...) I figure it would be good if it converted a slot of your choice into an Economic or Wildcard slot. You still get the same number of slots, which means you need to trade off.
It does limit strategies, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. Imo. it wouldn't be much different than GP that ties into specific victories like granting tourism or space race bonuses. I don't have a problem with certain GP being situational, although I still would strongly favor this being tied to a pool system where you pick your GP from a number of options instead of the current fixed order system.
 
It does limit strategies, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. Imo. it wouldn't be much different than GP that ties into specific victories like granting tourism or space race bonuses. I don't have a problem with certain GP being situational, although I still would strongly favor this being tied to a pool system where you pick your GP from a number of options instead of the current fixed order system.

Actually, the only order is the era they come from. For example, in all games you'll find Sagan, Kwolek and Abdul Salam as the 3 Great Scientists from the Information Age, but the order they appear is quite random. I've seen all 3 come first in a game or another.

If we're talking about a pool of GP, in my opinion they should still be separated by era. For example, 5 Great Engineers in the Industrial Era, from which 3 could be recruited, at the choice of the current recruiter. It doesn't make sense to recruit Sagan way back in the Ancient Era.

Another problem about tying GP to governments is the same that occurs with some policies: some won't be recruited at all. I'd never, for example, recruit a GP that enhances Monarchy, unless it was something in the order of 2 extra policy slots to make Monarchy OP.
 
Great merchants and engineers are usually great. Great scientists are a bit worse, there are many quite useless (1 eureka etc.).
Given by how easy the combat is in Civ6, I'm not bothering with generals and admirals anymore. I mean I don't use their combat bonus ability, because moving them around with your army is tedious and you really don't need the bonus. So I always use their one-use ability (this may also be the reason why I skip some of them when the one-use ability is not good for me).
And musicians, writers and artists? In many games I avoided them, because I didn't want to get accidental culture victory (happened to me few times). On the other hand when I wanted to end a game and culture victory seemed to be the easiest one, I rushed them.
What I don't like with these 3 is that there is no alternate use as in Civ5. You even no longer get money for selling them. So if I'm avoiding culture victory, I often just destroy them and get nothing at all. I think there should be the option to sell them for money or for culture (selling for culture would make sense IMHO).

Great Generals are obscenely good. The most important is the extra movement (which they didn't have in Civ V). Secondly, they STACK. Not only does the +5 combat strength stack but the extra movement stack. It is terrifying when you have 5 movement Crossbowmen (with +15 combat strength) due to having 3 Great Generals.

Even when I have advanced past the era for a Great General, I find it more useful as a 4 movement scout, caravan protector, and fog buster, than wasting the General for a one-time use ability (or a unit I could easily purchase).

You can always create a Great Work and sell it to the AI. They will often pay lots of gold for it.

On the whole I think that the Great People system is simply amazing in Civ VI and I love how you have to compete for great people, it's such a good system. However, I firstly think that there should be more variance with great people and not just Sun Tzu all the time as the first great general. Secondly, as you pointed out, the fact that when you capture great people they mystically return to the owner's capital seems totally dumb. Surely you should be able to capture them?

? It is randomized which great people show up (and in which order). So Sun Tzu isn't always the first great general. Sometimes it is Hannibal. Sometimes it is Boudicca.

No thanks on capturing Great People. It is bad enough being able to capture Settlers (as opposed to Civ V when capturing a settler turned it into a worker).

I overall like the system, but it does seem to have some flaws for me. The biggest one is that in many cases, rushing for a certain type of great person will actually be in your disadvantage. This is most pronounced with Great Artists, where the early ones will give you religious art, which is actually in your disadvantage because it's very hard to get theming bonuses with these. The great engineers is another prominent example of the early ones being basically crap.

The other flaw, which is somewhat related to the above, is the fact that often when you pick a great person, you'll unlock another one which is much better, even from the same era. This for me is very bad game design, because it punishes you for being first to achieve something (which should always be rewarded in a game like this).

Theming is a mess.

But Religious Art is actually the easiest to theme in the beginning. You could theme Religious Art in the Renaissance or Industrial era. It is impossible to theme Portraits or Landscapes until the Modern Era, and to theme Sculptures until Atomic. The problem is that there is no more Religious Art after Industrial. Also, Religious Art can be stored in Cathedrals (my favorite religious building).

Uh, if you don't like the current Great Person being offered, you can PASS on him/her. That's the existing mechanic to ensure you don't get screwed earning a Great Person first (and getting one you can't use).

I really like the system in Civ VI. It is just great to compete. I agree that some Great Scientists are not good enough and I constantly earn Great Admirals on water maps that I don't use / want. And somehow passing on GP doesn't seem right to me. However, their movement needs to be cut down heavily. Only the rare ones that have abilities in far away lands (Darwin, the one that gives a luxury from some point of the map) should have 4 movement. The others can teleport anyway and thus 2 movement should be sufficient. I like that they are unkillable - it would be too easy to exploit for human players since you always know when and where a GP will spawn. If you could kill/capture the great prophet of another civ, the whole religious race would be useless. You'd always just wait for your neighbor to generate that Great Prophet and steal it.

The 4 movement is a logical result of the district system (which can be 3 distance away from your capital) and the requirement that many Great People need to travel to a district to use their ability.

Most of the time, when you earn a Great Person you can use them that turn. It would be annoying if you had to wait 3-4 turns (or more) to even use the Great Person because of its slow movement.

Whilst great scientists are boring, they are effective. I'd like the great artists/musicians/writers to have some form of passive or alternate abilities, similar to what they had in Civ 5

No, no, no. That would be bad, bad, bad.

In Civ V, there were lots of Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians but it was ultimately a limited number. Thus, I was sad when Great Works were forever lost because the stupid AI used them for culture, golden ages, or concert tours.

In Civ VI, there are even fewer Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians. I don't want to see the AI's destroying Great Works for such ephemeral benefits. I like how the AI's end up with Great Works and you can trade for them.

I also think Great Writers are the most usable of the three culture/tourism related great people. They don't need to be changed at all - giving steady tourism and culture makes cultural districts worth building and I like that the buildings in there are more or less worthless when they are not filled with writings or art or whatever.
I can even imagine a similar thing for the last building in the science district: instead of giving science directly, they could have place for a great scientist and you need to put the GS in there to get his/her benefit and some steady science income.
Great Musicians and Artists are another thing however. The shuffling around Great Works of Art is tiresome. Why not include much more artists that are cheaper but everyone just generates one piece of art?
I'm fine with archeologists though. It is a bit of work to get 3 or 4 themed museums, but it is doable and not too tiresome. I feel I'm often very lucky anyway when it comes to digging up things. I also like how other civs denounce you when you dig in their lands and take the artifacts with you.

Uh, I enjoy shuffling the Great Works around and organizing them.

I just wish there was an option to expand them for an golden age like earlyer civs.
If i dont find a use for them. Sometimes you own to many great generals/admirals.
Or a scientist that boosts faith which you dont have a good use for.
Maybe it would be good to get a discount for your first one. It is hard to compete if you are late for say culture or science. And there are 3/4 civs way ahead in the race.

As mentioned, I always have a use for Great People. Even ones with crappy abilities are useful as 4 movement, unkillable units.

I don't like the generals/admirals at all. They give a bonus you don't really need, you have to attach them, move them around, then they become obsolete. I actually prefer Civ IV great generals, which I alwyas put as military instructors in cities. Also, the way they were earnt in previous games (based on combat) made more sense. It synergised with how you played. It was simple, straightforward. Now it's bland, you have to pay faith or gold to get great generals instead of actually fighting.

I don't attach Great Generals. I just have them follow my armies around. They serve as useful scouts, can locate enemy troops, and can block certain units too.

Whoever says that Generals are a waste of time, it's because they never used their retire ability. You can have early access to powerful units with promotions and maybe a corps or amy out of it.

For example, combining all Medieval Era GG, you end up with a Knight Corps and 25% combat bonus for mounted units. 4 movement and 72 strength is nothing to sneeze at, especially that early in the game. But you need to invest almost everything into it: early Encampments in all cities and running Encampment projects instead of infrastructure. High risk, high reward.

While many of the Great Generals do have good abilities, I still think they are more useful as 4 movement, unkillable units that can teleport between your cities.

They serve as unkillable scouts, fog busters who ward away barbarians, caravan defenders who protect them from barbarian scouts, and teleporting blockers who can prevent enemy religious units from converting your cities.
 
Actually, the only order is the era they come from. For example, in all games you'll find Sagan, Kwolek and Abdul Salam as the 3 Great Scientists from the Information Age, but the order they appear is quite random. I've seen all 3 come first in a game or another.

If we're talking about a pool of GP, in my opinion they should still be separated by era. For example, 5 Great Engineers in the Industrial Era, from which 3 could be recruited, at the choice of the current recruiter. It doesn't make sense to recruit Sagan way back in the Ancient Era.

Another problem about tying GP to governments is the same that occurs with some policies: some won't be recruited at all. I'd never, for example, recruit a GP that enhances Monarchy, unless it was something in the order of 2 extra policy slots to make Monarchy OP.
I agree with everything you say. When I ask for a pool of GP, it should definitely be an era-pool!

Also, I agree about what you say with Monarchy, but I will claim that the problem with that is not necessarily the idea of linking certain GP to governments, but rather that some governments are just hugely inferior, with Monarchy possibly being the worst of all (a plethora of military slots, and then you get extra housing (what would you even need that for if you go domination) from medieval walls (lol - have anybody ever build medieval walls, and even more relevant, why would they do it if going domination?)).
 
I would like that great admirals and generals can be used for something like a unique improvement like citadel/coastal fortress which when worked could provide units produced in that city with a unique promotion and extra exp generation.
 
I would love if artists etc could culture bomb stealing tiles or some other secondary bonus. Every game i end up with 4-5 artists with no where to go.
 
I'm confused about the game mechanics of skipping great people. The situation I've encountered may be unusual, as I'm a very experienced civ5 player trying to learn the ropes in civ6, so I brought the difficulty down to emperor, which is probably way too low, but I'm trying to learn. As a consequence, I'm entering the modern era and the two remaining civs are both about to enter the renaissance era, which may have caused the problem I'm encountering.

I skipped a great scientist because it was a garbage one, Galileo. I thought that would move me to the next GS with my progress in tact, meaning that I'd be very close to being able to pick up the next one. But apparently, you have to wait for someone to pick up the one you skipped or have everyone skip that great person to move on to the next? Is that right?

This seems to have caused a long-tern, almost permanent block on that type of great person. The AI that is closest to being able to pick up a great scientist has 27 GPP out of 197 and is only gaining two points per turn. The rate may increase, but it's still going to take a very long time, quite possibly until after I finish the game, for them to reach it. Meanwhile, I have over 400 GPP, more than double the amount needed to purchase, which means (I think) that if I had picked him up, I'd be closing in on picking up the NEXT great scientist. Should I reload and just take him? Maybe I'm not understanding the system too well, but from what I see it seems like a very flawed system.

Moving forward, should you just pick up a garbage great person if it seems no one else is going to qualify to take it for a long time?
 
I'm confused about the game mechanics of skipping great people. The situation I've encountered may be unusual, as I'm a very experienced civ5 player trying to learn the ropes in civ6, so I brought the difficulty down to emperor, which is probably way too low, but I'm trying to learn. As a consequence, I'm entering the modern era and the two remaining civs are both about to enter the renaissance era, which may have caused the problem I'm encountering.

I skipped a great scientist because it was a garbage one, Galileo. I thought that would move me to the next GS with my progress in tact, meaning that I'd be very close to being able to pick up the next one. But apparently, you have to wait for someone to pick up the one you skipped or have everyone skip that great person to move on to the next? Is that right?

This seems to have caused a long-tern, almost permanent block on that type of great person. The AI that is closest to being able to pick up a great scientist has 27 GPP out of 197 and is only gaining two points per turn. The rate may increase, but it's still going to take a very long time, quite possibly until after I finish the game, for them to reach it. Meanwhile, I have over 400 GPP, more than double the amount needed to purchase, which means (I think) that if I had picked him up, I'd be closing in on picking up the NEXT great scientist. Should I reload and just take him? Maybe I'm not understanding the system too well, but from what I see it seems like a very flawed system.

Moving forward, should you just pick up a garbage great person if it seems no one else is going to qualify to take it for a long time?

Yeah, if you're far and away destroying everyone else in GPP, you're best not to skip any, as it can be a long time for the AI to pick them up. Galileo isn't that bad, anyways. It's easy to find one spot that's got 3 mountains, and not too hard to get 4, so he's worth 750-1000 beakers. Roughly speaking, that's a free tech, and since it's science it at least has the advantage in that you can choose which tech it goes towards.

Now, whether you should go back and take them, I'm not sure. Sounds like you're royally crushing them anyways, so you're probably best to just keep going and finish the game. They might pick up the pace, and by the time they get them, you might even have enough to get back to back scientists.
 
I overall like the system, but it does seem to have some flaws for me. The biggest one is that in many cases, rushing for a certain type of great person will actually be in your disadvantage. This is most pronounced with Great Artists, where the early ones will give you religious art, which is actually in your disadvantage because it's very hard to get theming bonuses with these. The great engineers is another prominent example of the early ones being basically crap.

The other flaw, which is somewhat related to the above, is the fact that often when you pick a great person, you'll unlock another one which is much better, even from the same era. This for me is very bad game design, because it punishes you for being first to achieve something (which should always be rewarded in a game like this).

To fix these things, I would like to see changes like:
  • When you unlock a Great Person, you can choose from any person from the remaining pool from that specific era. This means that first person always gets to pick the person he prefers from that era.
  • When the great person era advances, GP points need to reset for all players with regards to that type of person. The current system where passing on early great persons to secure later (and better) ones seems illogical and bad for gameplay to me.
  • Great person costs, particularly in earlier eras, need to be scaled down to balance above.
Also related to that, but not specifically about great persons:
  • Super fast era advancement, particularly around classical-medieval-renaissance-industrial era, needs to be fixed. As currently is, most of the GPs from these eras before industrial are never unlocked.
Finally, I have to say that while I like the difference in the great persons, and don't mind some being better than others (particularly if a free-pick mechanism is introduced), Adam Smith needs to go. As much as I love him, he is just ridiculously overpowered, and the fact that there's a whole meta-game around getting him specifically in every single game sort of kills the whole point with the system.

+1 to this guy. This would make the system more competitive (and more of a first come first serve race)

The current system however is fine, although Great Generals and Admirals are admitedly not as good. I suggest +10 combat strength and a specific buff for a certain unit, but make them harder to get.
 
Yeah, if you're far and away destroying everyone else in GPP, you're best not to skip any, as it can be a long time for the AI to pick them up. Galileo isn't that bad, anyways. It's easy to find one spot that's got 3 mountains, and not too hard to get 4, so he's worth 750-1000 beakers. Roughly speaking, that's a free tech, and since it's science it at least has the advantage in that you can choose which tech it goes towards.

Now, whether you should go back and take them, I'm not sure. Sounds like you're royally crushing them anyways, so you're probably best to just keep going and finish the game. They might pick up the pace, and by the time they get them, you might even have enough to get back to back scientists.
Good to know about not skipping. As for Galileo, I'm comparing the beakers he'd grant in comparison to my total beakers per turn, again maybe this is more of a civ5 way of looking at it. As such, I figured he'd be an alright great scientist if I was at the stage in the game where I was making about 50 or 60 beakers per turn, as a triple mountain spot would then give about 15 turns worth of research. As I'm currently closing in on 300 beakers per turn, he'd give less than three turns worth of research, which seems unworthy.
 
I just wanted to add that the current situation where you might end up with an abundance of Great Writers, Artists and Musicians that you can't use (especially as Russia and Kongo) is also due to the AI not really building Theatre Squares (or maybe I'm biased, because I play with the AI+ mod and this is not a problem with the original AI). If playing Kongo or Russia with a heavy culture focus, I end up getting all of these GP. Even with other civs that can happen - and not just because I tend to overbuild Theatre Squares when going for a cultural victory, it really is because the AI is building next to none. Maybe we would think different about them and secondary abilities, if the AI would get some more of them. That would also encourage trading of Great Works to get theming instead of massing stuff in all your museums.
 
I just wanted to add that the current situation where you might end up with an abundance of Great Writers, Artists and Musicians that you can't use (especially as Russia and Kongo) is also due to the AI not really building Theatre Squares (or maybe I'm biased, because I play with the AI+ mod and this is not a problem with the original AI).
I seem to observe the opposite, so this might be an issue with AI+ mod. On emperor, I find it very hard to earn more than at best one great artist before modern era unless I go with very heavy culture focus. The AIs just keep recruiting them ahead of me so cost goes up and up faster than I earn the points. Writers are somewhat easier.
 
I skipped a great scientist (...)
This seems to have caused a long-tern, almost permanent block on that type of great person.

That's very much the situation I encountered so I wondered why anyone would skip GPP.
The suggestions to pick from a pool sounds good.
 
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