What Happens to Piety...?

[mitsho]

Tradition and Liberty as conflicting has the problem of them both being at the start where there's not much choice. Say you build the oracle and go heavy on culture and then are forced to open Honor... Of course that could be solved by allowing policy saving generally

I also hope that Order, Autocracy and Freedom will be available earlier with the extended tech tree and that each one of them incorporates one espionage tech. Espionage doesn't need to be specialized as the Culture or Science Tree, as it should be worthwhile in every gameplay style, I'd say.

Piety will obviously be changed somehow, Mandate of Heaven will probably be a name for a belief (makes more sense). But they do need to keep the culture bonus as there needs to be some culture policies. I guess it's to early to tell

 

[bcaiko]

So here's the rub, since I think most of us agree that Piety will be altered to have several religious bonuses. What Social Policy will be the go to for someone going for a Cultural Victory if Piety doesn't provide culture?

As it stands, it's impossible to secure a Cultural Victory without the Piety tree.

 

[Gucumatz]

So here's the rub, since I think most of us agree that Piety will be altered to have several religious bonuses. What Social Policy will be the go to for someone going for a Cultural Victory if Piety doesn't provide culture?

As it stands, it's impossible to secure a Cultural Victory without the Piety tree.

Not true. In previous Immortal games I have done it without Piety and went Rationalism to catch up in tech on a One City Challenge.

 

[MadDjinn]

So here's the rub, since I think most of us agree that Piety will be altered to have several religious bonuses. What Social Policy will be the go to for someone going for a Cultural Victory if Piety doesn't provide culture?

As it stands, it's impossible to secure a Cultural Victory without the Piety tree.

Not true. In previous Immortal games I have done it without Piety and went Rationalism to catch up in tech on a One City Challenge.

ok, it's far faster to win a culture game if you finish Piety early, even if you flip later and finish with Rationalism.

It is a bit of a 'rub' though. If Piety becomes more Religion than Culture, and all other things considered, no other (aside from Freedom) SP tree 'becomes' culture boosters, then something else has to enhance a culture VC.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

There are probably beliefs that enhance culture.
The religion screenshot shows a founder belief that increases culture by 10% if you're not at war. That doesn't sound like much, but maybe there are more suitable beliefs, and maybe Piety has a policy that increases the effect of beliefs.
If you want to go culture, use Piety to improve your religion and then, use religion to improve culture.
It's also possible that some of the nwe wonders or buildings help with a culture victory. A wonder that increases culture for every specialist like the Sistine Chapel did in cIV might be one possibility.

 

[Monthar]

Why would something else have to enhance Cultural VC? For all we know, all the new stuff added, changes to City States and diplomacy, the undisclosed number of new techs, changes to combat, etc., might make all the other VC's take longer, thus removing the need for the Piety tree's Culture boosts.

 

[chazzycat]

they could move some culture to tradition, that wouldn't surprise me.

as far as espionage, personally I think it belongs more with autocracy than order. maybe order should have some defensive espionage boost or something, but Stalin, the KGB and all that was not really communism - it was totalitarianism.

 

[Louis XXIV]

The problem is the Soviet Union had elements of both, but those are mutually exclusive in Civ5. If I were to choose which one had better spies, the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, I'd choose the USSR.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I still awnt two brand new trees xD just ot make it more intresting xD

 

[chazzycat]

The problem is the Soviet Union had elements of both, but those are mutually exclusive in Civ5. If I were to choose which one had better spies, the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, I'd choose the USSR.

Well that's 100% true, but I think it was more of a matter of the USSR having more resources devoted to it, given their superpower status post-WW2 and need to spy on the US nuclear program. Maybe another factor was that the German intelligence types were a little busy with their "master plan".

Come to think of it, the British have historically had pretty damn good spies, and they are neither autocratic nor communist. Maybe the most important thing is who spends the most money on it?? let's hope it's not implemented that way in civ

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, the Soviets basically just pushed human intelligence (the US, on the other hand, pushed technological intelligence, although we did start a lot of coups to make up for that). That being said, while devoting resources is really the key, I think the Soviet Union did get a surprising amount of turncoats for ideological reasons. Nazi Germany isn't going to get many people willing to betray their country for the ideology of ultra-militant nationalism and those who would are fairly easy to spot. It's not as easy to spot a Communist. However, on the other hand, the US got a lot of Soviet defectors who agreed to spy on them because they thought the regime was oppressive.

So, in short, no one should get espionage bonuses. However, Civ2 and I think Civ3 did give bonuses to communism so, if you give it to anyone, follow tradition (plus, espionage could use it).

 

[bcaiko]

Why would something else have to enhance Cultural VC? For all we know, all the new stuff added, changes to City States and diplomacy, the undisclosed number of new techs, changes to combat, etc., might make all the other VC's take longer, thus removing the need for the Piety tree's Culture boosts.

I certainly hope that in some way the victory conditions are more balanced. Of the non-time victories, Cultural is by far the toughest right now. In part because it can't be your back-up victory type.

 

[TimeWeaver]

Come to think of it, the tree of tradition actually has "religion" written all over it. Its focus is early civ kingships, where the royal highness is godlike and sacred and the capital a centre for religion/rituals in certain forms. I reckon that this tree will be a must for those going for small empires with a big emphasis on religion and of course culture.