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What ideology do you pick LEAST?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Maniac, Aug 14, 2013.

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What ideology do you pick least?

  1. Autocracy

    132 vote(s)
    62.0%
  2. Freedom

    16 vote(s)
    7.5%
  3. Order

    25 vote(s)
    11.7%
  4. Banana

    40 vote(s)
    18.8%
  1. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Pensacola, Florida
    interestingly enough, in my current game [only my 2nd bnw game], Napolean took autocracy although he appears to be going for a cultural victory. He has been the leader (culture and score, etc.) the whole game, so I took it too just to keep the friendship intact. We've been friends the whole game, even though we've shared border since the beginning, but we've been in several wars together against the Zulu and Japanese; have tons of trade routes with each other; resource trades, etc. My spies/diplomats have reported several times that he was plotting against me, but so far I've been able to maintain our friendship. In my first game, I took freedom and then the biggies took order, so I had some slight happiness problems for a while - until I got freedom established as the world ideology.
     
  2. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    dFland
    Autocracy. It is to ideologies what Order is to social policies. It seems like it'd be great for a warmonger, but its benefits are almost exclusively warmonger-centric, and you'll find that no matter how big of a warmonger you are, you'll have far bigger benefits going for a more indirect path with benefits all around.
     
  3. Circuit

    Circuit Writing Letters

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    United States
    So far it's Order, though I may start seeing use for it more. Autocracy does deserve more love, though. I played an Autocracy game with Shaka, and Kamehameha chose Order and since he was doing better culturally than I was, my happiness dropped. So what did I do? I killed him. After that, happiness was no longer a problem. Quite the opposite, actually; when I got Police State (which may be more powerful for a warmonger with kills under his belt than Iron Curtain, since they will have more puppets), annexing cities increased my happiness level considerably in very little time. Then throw in Fortified Borders and Militarism and you'll never have to worry about happiness ever again (I controlled all the cities on my megacontinent and was rolling with 80+ happiness). And like Arachnofiend said about Total War, "Planes that start with Air Repair." Your army will be awesome.

    So give Autocracy more love. If you're having problems, the answer is you need to kill more people (or at least maime them to the point they are no longer a problem; I didn't actually destroy kamehameha, though he was only left with one city). Then your problems will be solved.
     
  4. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    For a warmonger, Order and Autocracy gives enough happiness. But Order right off the bat gives more happiness. Since it's unlikely your cities will have Castles/Arsenals already.

    For my sole warmonger game, I took Order over Autocracy. Since I direly needed happiness and Order gave the instant boost it needed.

    I'll try autocracy though, but I doubt the end result is that much different. Autocracy merely pushes you to go all warmonger, while Order still gives you a choice to play a science/diplomatic game if you wanted to (with some science/growth bonuses).
     
  5. Circuit

    Circuit Writing Letters

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
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    1,927
    Location:
    United States
    If you have puppets, there probably will be cities with walls and castles, as puppets like to build those. Thus Autocracy seems to favor the warmonger with a few kills under his belt already, while Order seems to favor a later game expansion more.
     
  6. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Location:
    New York
    True, that is why I choose Orange most of the time. I mean, orange you glad I didn't say banana? :mischief:
     
  7. quantum42

    quantum42 Linux User

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Oregon
    I only choose autocracy twice and order twice to get the achievements associated with them. In the games I've played so far, the AI has chosen order about 2/3 and freedom about 1/3. The AI has not chosen autocracy yet.
     
  8. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Youve definitely peaked my interest on trying autocracy, but can you please post what these things do for those too lazy to look it up?
     
  9. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    2,407
    :banana:
    :banana:
     
  10. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,579
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Happiness for pretty much each military building is much better than per monument. That's what's great about Autocracy. People talk about autocracy and happiness issues, but I found it the best for happiness. +2 happiness for walls, castles, arsenals, and military bases is spectacular because it's maintenance free. It's also a level one tenet. Then you go Universal Health Care and Militarism as your next two and that's a potential 14 happiness per city + 20 from National Wonders.
     
  11. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,873
    IMO there's too much happiness in order, it makes it better than autocracy for warmongers.

    Also too many warmonger benefits in freedom.
     
  12. Danierokon

    Danierokon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    12
    Banana, that evil fruit doesn't make my people happy:mad::mad:

    Normally I will pick order/autocracy since I'm a warmonger, and these two ideologies suit me well:goodjob:
    I will go for freedom if someone first picked order/autocracy (If I have enough happiness/already exotic on others) just for the free tenets :king:

    Autocracy is actually better than before, it now gives you enough happiness for conquest and 3 promotion guys every cities without Brandenburg gate is just awesome, people need to give it a try. And Prora is a super nice wonder.

    And while freedom and order seem more popular than autocracy, they do have their downsides as well.
    Like I don't remember I have ever went for any order's level 3 tenets... And I think that +2 happiness per monument is a bit overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's great.
    Or the happiness policies in freedom are kinda weird to me, watermill/hospital/med lab everywhere is just a thing I won't do every game, especially med lab..
     
  13. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Without playing too many BNW games here's how my mind works (on Immortal):
    Code:
    if (Venice) {
      choose autocracy.
      "Mobilization: Gold cost of purchasing units reduced by 33%."
      //You almost always are buying stuff as Venice and I like killing stuff.
    } else if (behind in tech) {
      choose autocracy.
      "Industrial Espionage: Spies steal technologies at twice the normal rate."
      //Simply the most efficient way to catch up on techs, hands down.
    } else if (doing well in tech pace and have or plan to get secularism) {
       choose freedom.
      //Secularism 2 beakers, + Statue of Liberty 1 hammer + "Civil Society: Specialists 
    consume only half the normal amount of Food." + "Universal Suffrage: Specialists in 
    Cities produced half the normal amount of Unhappiness. Golden Ages are 50% longer." 
    leads to specialists being quite amazing. 
      //Although side note, SoL hammer bonus doesn't work on artists/writers/musicians, 
    while the secularism bonus does, filed a bug about this.
    } else {
      //Haven't gotten to this point yet!
    }
    
    TLDR: Order.
     
  14. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    2,379
    Autocracy has kinda lackluster 1 tier policies, but tier 2 is badass. Tier 3 is actually underrated, because... Compare it to the horrid stuff Order gets, really.

    Wasting GE on spaceship parts? Really? +10 science at this stage of the game is nothing. +33% tourism against less happy civs? Well, it has its uses because AI now can get unhappy on Emperor, but the cultural overlords typically have dozens of wonders, which means they also swim in happiness. The third one is free Courthouse which would be nice, but... Just compare it to Autocracy's Tier 2 belief. Build Courthouses 50% faster AND +3 happiness per courthouse.


    Generally I noticed that for me Order has best Tier 1 tenets and good tier 2 while it has almost completely useless Tier 3 (unless going for cultural, in which case every other ideology would help you more).

    Autocracy has mediocre-bad Tier 1, very awesome Tier 2 and great tier 3. Freedom has mediocre-at-best T1, very hard to rate T2 (it's great or even overpowered if you just went Industrial, got coal quickly and want to milk the Foreign Legions, otherwise worse than other policies) and godly T3.



    Poor Autocracy is underrated. It's very good, but yeah Tier 1 quickly runs out of good policies.
     
  15. evilcat

    evilcat Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    Autocracy, the only thing it does is warmongering, and is not even expetional at it.
     
  16. Byzantine Bomb

    Byzantine Bomb Warlord

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Not a lot of lovefor autocracy it seems. I must be the minority stating that it's my favorite.
    Freedom and Order I seldom pick.
     
  17. Lord Alexander

    Lord Alexander Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    118
    Don't think I picked autocracy yet but I have picked Order and Freedom a few times my favourite being Freedom.
     
  18. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,179
    Why would you say you are going to have happiness and tourism problems? Autocracy gives the most raw happiness out of all three, and simply by taking over a tourism-heavy neighbor, you will likely be pumping out way more tourism than anyone else. The tourist giants in my games are always someone like Washington, who has double everyone else's because he stole half from war.

    I wouldn't use the AI as a measuring stick. We all know how successful war-mongers like Montezuma are... In the hands of the player though, Autocracy gives a number of comparable bonuses.

    Spaceflight Pioneers vs. Third Alternative. Both give 10 science. One doubles strategic resources (useful) the other allows you to rush spaceship parts with engineers (meh).

    Socialist Realism vs. Militarism. +2 happiness on monuments is great when combined with Resettlement, but the half cost is forgettable and it isn't difficult to put the effort into armories, which then pass up this tenet.

    Treaty Organization vs. Gunboat Diplomacy. I'd call it about equal.

    And yeah, there are a number of policies that are purely for war, but the idea is war will turn around and give bonuses in return. A puppet spammed with trading posts and Free Thought gives a decent amount of science and gold.

    The argument is "Well, I don't need help with war-mongering, I can just pick Freedom/Order and still take over the AI". True. Just like someone doesn't need help working specialist slots, so can pick Auto/Order and still work specialists. Or someone who doesn't need help playing a wide builder game and uses Freedom/Auto and still plays wide.

    If you don't enjoy investing into a large military and using brute-force to get what you want, of course you won't enjoy Autocracy, but it certainly shouldn't be because the policy tree is weak because there are a number of good tenets, some of which don't have anything to do with war-mongering.
     
  19. 3drawegroeg

    3drawegroeg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    I've only picked autocracy in one game, but it's been by far the most fun to play. I'll be picking it more often. Someone has to be the bad guy! :)
     
  20. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    It's definitely fun to go warmonger sometimes. You can only play so much peaceful diplomatic/cultural/science games before you just decide to man up and kill Shaka/Oda/Genghis because they've been pissing you off for the last couple of peace games, lol.
    http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5)
    Industrial Espionage: Spies steal technologies twice as fast.

    Happiness bonuses:
    Fortified Borders: +1 Local Happiness per Walls, Castle, Arsenal and Military Base.
    Militarism: +2 Local Happiness per Barracks, Armory and Military Academy.
    Police State: +3 Local Happiness from each Courthouse. Build Courthouses in half the usual time.

    Total War: +25% Production towards Military Units. New Units receive +15 XP.
     

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