What if China refuses some countries to the 2008 Olympics? - ok or not ok ?

[GenMarshall]

I believe that they would be foolish if they start alienating other nations from the olympics because of the boycotts. Most certanly the olympics is not a Chinese sporting event, the Olympics is a world wide sporting event held in a particular place in the world.

 

[Tycoon101]

Lets make the entire idea of banning a country nul... By hosting it at Vatican City!!!!! (Ok, bad joke, but I wanted to say it.)

I might watch the Olympics if they banned some countries, but I have a feeling that American outsourcing to China would plummet.

But this would never happen.

 

[IglooDame]

On this subject, does anyone know what the arrangements are for Taiwan this time around? I seem to remember in Athens they competed under another name due to political conderations.

That's a very interesting question - China letting Taiwanese athletes compete (against Chinese athletes) could be interpreted as de facto recognition of Taiwan's independence, I'd think.

 

[Rik Meleet]

It's a stupid question because it will never happen. This is China's big chance to show off to the world, to show that it has "arrived". The last thing it wants is to have a big fuss made over countries being banned. Personally I think the fact that this question is even asked shows how little people in the West know about China. Most Westerners still seem to be stuck in the days of the "Red Menace". Actually to be frank, I don't think most Westerners know all that much about China full-stop. For example, China's relationship with Japan is not *that* bad. There are plenty of Japanese factories, shops and goods in China. I know Japanese working in China right now. It's nothing like the relationship between Israel and Arab countries for example. N. Korea - China doesn't have any sentimental attachment to the place. It just wants to keep it as a buffer. Otherwise it's an annoying leaden weight. S. Korea and China are becoming pretty good friends now. The only place that probably won't be welcome is Taiwan and I can't see any other country (including the US) pushing the issue since in 90% of countries and world organisations, Taiwan is not officially a country.

What is far more likely to happen is that China may frown on individual athletes from countries who it considers possible problems e.g. someone who is a known Tibet independence activist. However, since China is trying to show off here, I strongly suspect that it will let them through rather than put up a fuss.

Besides in Chinese culture, a host has a lot of responsibilites to his guest. If you've ever been in a planning session for a Chinese gathering you see a lot of agonising over whether X *should* be invited even if they hate their guts because otherwise it will "seem bad" if they don't. And then you get guests agonising other whether they should go once they receive the invitation and "how it will look to others". Often an acceptable compromise is for the host to send an invitation and the hated guest to say he is "busy" and send a few gifts so everyone maintains face. The point is even if it is a "hated" guest the Chinese government will send invitations to them anyway because otherwise "it will look bad and people will talk". Honestly, who do you think the Japanese learnt this stuff from in the first place?

I immediately admit that I am not a China-expert. I asked this question not to make China look bad, but as a counter-question to the proposed Boycott by Pasi. I don't see China as "red menace". I am fairly open minded. If I insulted anyone with my question I regret the grief I caused. I do think that a good way to learn more of other(s) culture is to ask questions.

Uiler: Do you think Taiwanese athletes will be sporting for their island (carefully avoiding the word "country") in Beijing ?

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

That's a very interesting question - China letting Taiwanese athletes compete (against Chinese athletes) could be interpreted as de facto recognition of Taiwan's independence, I'd think.

Taiwan competed in 2004 as 'Chinese Taipei' so as not to upset China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics

I imagine the same will happen this time in Beijing. I honestly don't think China would have won the games unless they agreed to host Taiwanese athletes. I don't know though.

 

[Uiler]

I immediately admit that I am not a China-expert. I asked this question not to make China look bad, but as a counter-question to the proposed Boycott by Pasi. I don't see China as "red menace". I am fairly open minded. If I insulted anyone with my question I regret the grief I caused. I do think that a good way to learn more of other(s) culture is to ask questions.

Uiler: Do you think Taiwanese athletes will be sporting for their island (carefully avoiding the word "country") in Beijing ?

My apologies too. I over-reacted. I don't know about Taiwan but from some Chinese state propaganda sites :

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2000/Nov/4457.htm

Taiwan's main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) Vice-Chairman Wu Poh-hsiung signed his name in support of Beijing's bid to host the 2008 Olympic Games during his visit to the Chinese capital on November 23, 2000.

Wu is the highest-level KMT official to visit the mainland since 1949.

The Beijing 2008 Olympic Games Bid Committee is thinking seriously inviting Taiwan to co-sponsor the 2008 Olympic Games, said a leading official with the committee's press and public affairs department on Thursday on condition of anonymity.

The possibility of Beijing and Taiwan co-sponsoring the games exists, and relevant departments are studying the situation, the official said.

``If the 2008 Olympic Games is to be held in Beijing, some of the mass events like soccer, baseball and basketball may be held in Chinese cities including Shanghai and Guangzhou, but why not Taiwan's Taibei?'' the official said.

Hong Kong and Taiwan press have been reporting on the likelihood of the mainland and Taiwan co-hosting the 2008 Olympics. It is widely believed that co-hosting will enhance reconciliation and cooperation between the two sides of the Taiwan Straits, and at the same time, add strong weight to Beijing's bid.

The official refused to say whether and when the committee will send an official invitation to Taiwan, which, resulting from a civil war between the Communist Party and the Kuomintang (Nationalist) Party in the 1940s, is not unified with the mainland yet.

According to a poll of 20 normal people in Taipei, Tainan, Kaohsiung, Taichung and Taoyuan by the Taiwan daily Minsheng Pao, most of them felt that Beijing's bid to host the 2008 Olympics was a big event for Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Straits. If Beijing does win the right to host the 2008 Olympics, it will be the honor for the entire Chinese race so they should work hand in hand to support Beijing's bid.

Taiwan basketball star Cheng Chilong and Mrs. Chen Sihan from Taoyuan both felt that the motherland had a lot to offer, especially since its athletic facilities have reached world-class standards, Beijing has met all the conditions to host the Olympics so we should give them our full support.

(China Daily 11/24/2000)

A more recent 2006 one:

http://english.people.com.cn/200601/24/eng20060124_237920.html

The Beijing Organizing Committee for the 2008 Olympic Games will fully consider the will of the Taiwan compatriots when designing the roadmap of the Olympic torch relay, to enable them to share the joy and glory brought about by the Olympic sacred flame.

This remark was made by Li Weiyi, spokesman of the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council at a regular press conference on Tuesday.

Li noted that the compatriots of Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao, as well as the overseas Chinese, had given all-out support to Beijing's Olympic bid, and that the hosting of the Olympic Games is a grand event for the entire Chinese nation.

"Therefore, the will and interests of everyone will be fully considered," he added.

Chinese President Hu Jintao had welcomed the Taiwan compatriots to participate in the construction of stadiums for the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games, as well as in other commercial activities relating to the Games, when he met with Taiwan businessmen during a recent inspection tour of southeast China's Fujian Province, said Li.

"We welcome Taiwan athletes to compete in the 2008 Olympic Games, and also welcome other Taiwan compatriots to come and serve as volunteers for the Games," Li added.

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200107/26/eng20010726_75849.html

Many Taiwanese are inspired by the new: Beijing wins the bid to host 2008 Olympics. To host 2008 Olympics Games has become a hot issue on the Chinese mainland and Taiwan in recent days: What a dose can this mean to Taiwan? What would it bring to Taiwan?

Sports Circles: Promote Cross-Straits Cooperation
Ta-Chou Huang, head of Taipei Olympics Committee sent a greeting message to Beijing after IOC announced the award. He said that it will be more convenient for Taiwan to contact with the mainland and Taiwan will have more chances to participate in various international events as Beijing will get more chances to host international matches, it is also conducive for Taiwan to developing its sports career. He is very cheerful when hearing Beijing's victory.

Wu, Ching-Kuo, Taiwan's member of the IOC, said in an interview with reporters that at the moment when Beijing wins, Mr. He Zhenliang and I hugged together, we cried, it is really unforgettable. He said that Olympic flame is a symbol of peace, not anything has something to do with politics.

He said that he would try his best to help Beijing as an IOC member, he believes that Beijing will host the best ever Olympics.

Business Circles: Not Let the Great Opportunities Slip Away
Ten days later after Beijing won the bid, Beijing once again announced to invest huge sums of money in constructing Olympics gyms and facilities, these undoubtedly are good news to Taiwan's flagging economy. Business circles in Taiwan have pinned great expectations on this great chance.

Recent days, Taiwan's stock markets slumped to 4,000 points. Investment sources said that Beijing's success in winning the bid will have positive effects on Taiwan' stock.

A researcher on behalf of "Trade Point Taiwan" said that Taiwan's shoes makers, clothes factories, building materials industries, toy factories, furniture industries, which have already opened business on the mainland, would be direct beneficiaries of the 2008 Olympics. Besides direct business opportunities, Taiwan business circles can also have chances.

Many Taiwan products like mechanical and electrical equipment, machinery products, plastic cements and steels are related with Olympics. Beijing may also use Taiwan's products like souvenir, clothes, shoes and sports gym building materials. In the meantime, information and telecom sector also expect to share the opportunity. Taiwan business circles should by no means let slip such a great opportunity.

Academic Circles: Promote Talents Exchange, Grasp Opportunities
Since Beijing wins the bid, Taiwan should also make contributions to the Olympics. Taiwan has a well-developed news media cause, they can provide experience for the mainland in media work, one fourth of the world population are Chinese, Taiwan and mainland use the same language, there offers good opportunities Taiwan can grasp.

Mainland needs more professionals in sports managing, the two sides will have more cooperation chances in the coming seven years. Currently, Taiwan's enterprises do not have enough cognition about sports value, still more, they lack experience in sponsoring international events. Enterprises will help promote Beijing Olympics by way of sponsoring, it is also a good approach to realize cooperation between the two sides through exchanging experience, increasing dialogues and promoting exchanges. This will bring Taiwan more tangible and intangible benefits, Taiwan should not lag behind when global business circles are also seeking opportunities.

I guess it is part of the "panda" diplomacy strategy. They will offer Taiwan some hosting in the name of "goodwill" and if President Chen refuses then they he will look bad. The opposition KMT leader will then declare that *he* would like the chance to host the games, they should be closer to their "brothers" on the mainland etc. I guess if they are planning to go this tack they will probably also allow direct flights between the mainland and Taiwan during the games.

So it looks like Taiwan participation may not neccesarily be a problem though under the name "Chinese Taipei" since the Chinese government seems to be trying to go the higher moral ground route. Reminds me a bit of a HK show I'm watching right now when two families are at odds. One family debates whether to send a party invitation to the other because he knows that the other will refuse. His advisers tell him that he should send an invitation anyway and if the other guy doesn't come (which he didn't) then the other guy will look bad and no blame will be set on him. When the other guy received the invitation he of course refuses to go. However on the prodding of his wife he sends a few gifts with a servant so that his refusal to go won't look too bad. However his son and daughter secretly go without their father's permission. I guess the equivalent in this case is that the Taiwanese politicians and separatist movement will reject all overtures but the Taiwanese people will probably visit Beijing in their droves to watch the Olympics and get caught up in "Olympic fever"

In recent years the Chinese government has tried to switch to Han unity strategy. Mainland Chinese, Taiwanese, HK, all overseas Chinese are all "brothers" in that they are all the "children and grandchildren of the Yellow Emperor" so I guess this strategy fits into this. These "peaceful" maneouvers should not be seen as China accepting Taiwan - it is more a tactic to try to convince Taiwanese that they and mainland Chinese are part of the same "family".

Looking at the usually virulent anti-Chinese Taipei Times it looks like Taiwan is likely to participate in 2008 Olympics under the name Chinese Taipei. In fact it voted in *approval* of Beijing's bid. I think Olympic fever will staunch the separatist sentiments of all but the most hardset anti-Chinese:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2004/09/10/2003202341

Taiwan's unprecedented two gold and three silver medals at the Athens Olympics excited the nation as a whole. President Chen Shui-bian (陳水&#25153 has said that Taiwan's goal should be to win seven gold medals in the 2008 Beijing Olympics, greatly boosting the fighting spirit of the country's athletes. But for Taiwan, the Olympics is not only a matter of sports. With the next Olympics to be held in the place that is most hostile to Taiwan, political considerations are unavoidable.

So, with the Beijing Olympics only four years away, what should Taiwan do? Various approaches are already appearing. Senior presidential advisor Peng Ming-min (彭明&#25935 thinks that if Taiwan can only participate under the name "Chinese Taipei," it would be better not to go at all. China has always used sports as a way to manipulate political issues. Four years from now, Beijing is certain to once again take advantage of the Olympics to play up the Taiwan issue. The country is afraid of being belittled because it can only participate under the name of "Chinese Taipei," but managing to change that name to "Taiwan" in the short term will be difficult. Insisting that a name change is a prerequisite for participation is tantamount to an early announcement that Taiwan will not participate in the 2008 Olympics. If we do not participate in 2008, should we then participate in the 2012 and the 2016 Olympics if the name still cannot be changed? The number of international organizations open to Taiwan is already severely restricted, so the name issue has to be handled cautiously.

Chen's talk of winning seven gold medals in the Beijing Olympics suggests that Taiwan not only intends to take part in the 2008 Games, but will also send its top athletes to create a stir there. This will certainly heighten international awareness of Taiwan. The country does not have the resources to play tough with China over the cross-strait issue, and any victory will have to be the result of strategic flexibility. There is no hurry on the issue of Taiwan's name. The question of whether or not to go to Beijing is a problem, but there are many variables to deal with in the meantime, and Taiwan has no need to make a snap decision about it.

The private sector in Taiwan is already exploring the possibility of winning the bid to host the Olympics in 2016. This is food for thought for both the government and the public. In competing for this bid, Taiwan will show itself to have a place and status in the international community, earning a higher degree of visibility within it.

Bidding to host the 2016 Olympic Games is a campaign that will require the mobilization of society as a whole. In addition to the participation of the entire sports sector, the assistance of the government and non-governmental organizations will be necessary. The process would also help consolidate Taiwanese unity and stimulate citizens' sense of honor. Of course, China's attitude will be key to a Taiwanese bid for the 2016 Olympic Games.

When Beijing was bidding for the 2008 Olympic Games, Taiwan cast its vote of approval, disregarding cross-strait tension. This allowed Beijing to stand out from its major competitors and win the bid. Therefore, this would be the best time for China to return the favor and express its goodwill toward Taiwan.

If China opposes an Olympic bid by Taiwan, the international community and the Taiwanese people will clearly see the true face of Chinese arrogance. But if Beijing supports a Taiwanese bid, and the two countries' teams were to appear side by side in Taipei, it would be the ultimate reflection of the peaceful spirit of the Olympics. The host of the 2016 Olympic Games will be decided prior to the 2008 Olympic Games. Perhaps Taiwan could decide whether to attend the event in Beijing based on China's attitude toward a Taiwanese Olympic bid.

Also looks like the Taiwanese have rejected Beijings offer of the Olympic Torch going through Taiwan because Beijing wanted to classify it as on the "domestic" route. Ah, yes the guest have refused to come. Now one has to ask, does he have enough politeness and breeding to send a few gifts? I still think most of the Taiwanese people will probably sneak away to the party no matter what their "dad" says.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2005/10/21/2003276664

 

[Rik Meleet]

Uiler: thank you for the interesting insights.

 

[Elrohir]

If China did that, then the Olympics should be held in another country, and they should be disallowed from partcipating for one year. Individual countries could also take action on their own. (Higher tariff's, harsh letters, etc) I doubt China would hurt their image in doing such a thing though; they're all about projecting a positive imagine to everyone. (While they establish an economic and political hegemony in the Far East)

 

[Warman17]

Based on the Boycott 2008 Olympics thread by Pasi Nurminen.

How would you react and what would you think if China didn't allow any Japanese athletes to the 2008 Beijing Olympics because of WWII atrocities? Would you support China or condemn China for that?

And what if China wouldn't allow nations that invaded North-Korea in the 1950's (USA, Turkey, South-Korea, Australia, Belgium, Canada, France, UK - to name a few) into the 2008 Olympics.

Does China have that right or China does not have that right ?

China does not have the right to do so. The Olympic Commitee chose China, which means that China is recieving a responsibility, not a privledge. It's not their olympics to do as they please, it's the world's olympica. No nation can close off any nation from the omlympics because they are holding them. They have the responsibility to bring the world together in athletic competition, not tear iyt apart by politics.

 

[Atropos]

There is a fundamental disparity between boycotting an Olympics and being banned from an Olympics. It's the difference between choosing not to vote and being forced not to vote.

 

[7ronin]

One of the conditions for being permitted to host the Olympics is that you will allow every country recognized by the IOC access to your country and the Olympic venues. No agreement, no games.

China and Japan signed a Peace and Friendship treaty over thirty years ago. Whatever public opinion and sentiment may hold in China, the two governments long ago reached a rapprochement for the events of World War II. Chinese-Japanese trade is so big now that the Chinese government would never even think of jeopradizing it because of the Olympics.

I think your basic premise is a non-starter.