what is the point of the barbarians?

[jwildstr]

Willem, you miss my point entirely. I want barbarians to be at the CivIII nuisance level. I realize other people's taste and opinion differ and that's fine, but I don't enjoy the game if dealing with barbarians is a major component of it. Regardless of whether I need archers or axemen, or need new tactics, I simply do not want to have to deal with barbarians as a major part of my strategy. As for modding, I don't know how to change this nor does your short suggestion help. As others have noted, Civ 4 may be very moddable if you know how, but it is much more difficult to mod than CivIII, which did not require going into files and changing values.

If you really dislike them that much, when you start a custom game, there's a "No Barbarians" option. I assume it does what it says (never tried it).

 

[Willem]

Not always true. I put an archer on a forested hill and guess what?

The barb just walks by and helps himself to my improvements and begins pillaging!

Then put it on a Hill a little further away. If there's no improvements nearby, chances are he'll attack the Archer and die in the attempt. There is the odd one that does get through, but it's rare.

 

[Gherald]

Q: what is the point of the barbarians?

A: Heroic Epic

 

[Kerrang]

The AI bonuses are the same for every level, they never go up after Settler. So by Noble they're getting a very good advantage over them compared to the human player.

Are you sure about this? I have read in several other posts that the AI bonuses against Barbs increases with the difficulty. I also seem to recall that they do not get any bonuses before Noble difficulty. My experiences playing the game seem to bear this out, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Your first sentence also seems to contradict your second sentence. If their bonuses do not go up after Settler (the lowest setting), how would they have a better advantage over Human players by time they get to Noble?

 

[maltz]

I just don't see a point of them. All they seem to do is attack you and that's it.

Although annoying, barbarians are pretty realistic I think. Every civilization has to deal with some neighbor tribes or cities, and they are summed up as the barbarians in their own literature.

I hate the barbarians when they spawn a galley from the only dark water tile availble, and destroy all of my fishing boats.

 

[maltz]

The barb just walks by and helps himself to my improvements and begins pillaging!

Yeah the Barbarians are smart enough NOT to challenge the impossible odds, and knows when to go around to grab the low hanging fruit. The AIs aren't that dumb.

 

[Willem]

Are you sure about this? I have read in several other posts that the AI bonuses against Barbs increases with the difficulty. I also seem to recall that they do not get any bonuses before Noble difficulty. My experiences playing the game seem to bear this out, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Your first sentence also seems to contradict your second sentence. If their bonuses do not go up after Settler (the lowest setting), how would they have a better advantage over Human players by time they get to Noble?

Take a look at the XML file HandicapInfo.xml. At Settler, the AI and the human have the same bonus against the barbs/animals, 70 for animals, 40 for barbs. As the levels go up, the human gets less of a bonus, but the AI's remains the same. At Noble level, the human values are 50/20 to the AI's 70/40. By Diety the human gets no bonuses, but the AI still gets 70/40.

 

[Kerrang]

Take a look at the XML file HandicapInfo.xml. At Settler, the AI and the human have the same bonus against the barbs/animals, 70 for animals, 40 for barbs. As the levels go up, the human gets less of a bonus, but the AI's remains the same. At Noble level, the human values are 50/20 to the AI's 70/40. By Diety the human gets no bonuses, but the AI still gets 70/40.

Ah, I see now, it is the Human player loosing bonuses that does the trick. It has the same net effect, though, causing your units to become juicier targets for the Barbs as the difficulty level increases. Good to know that this starts even before Noble difficulty, thanks for the info!

 

[Stellaaa]

I must say, I appreciate the modding tip given in this thread. The barbs were driving me crazy. I gave up trying to play marathon speed because the barbs were just out of control. It seems to me the default barb level in civ iv is "raging" (compared to other civ games), I've never tried to actually set it to raging because that would be suicide for me. What I've wanted to do since I started playing this game is to turn barbs down, not off. Thank you.

Question. If you set Barbarians to "off" do any goody huts appear? Tool tips just says no barbs or animals will appear. (in other Civ's you lost the goody huts if you turned off barbs)

 

[Traflagar]

I must say, I appreciate the modding tip given in this thread. The barbs were driving me crazy. I gave up trying to play marathon speed because the barbs were just out of control. It seems to me the default barb level in civ iv is "raging" (compared to other civ games), I've never tried to actually set it to raging because that would be suicide for me. What I've wanted to do since I started playing this game is to turn barbs down, not off. Thank you.

Question. If you set Barbarians to "off" do any goody huts appear? Tool tips just says no barbs or animals will appear. (in other Civ's you lost the goody huts if you turned off barbs)

Not in CIV4. There is still plenty of goody huts, just no barbs in them.

I hate barbs too and I actually played a while with them turned off but I stopped doing it because it is so much more interesting in the early game with them on.

 

[HourlyDaily]

To each his own, but as a person whose idea of fun is to play a builder/turtle game only on huge maps (which are small enough in Civ4), barbarians are the prime reason I have put the game away for a while. It feels too much like cheating to turn barbarians off, but figthing off the constant waves of barbarians that appar on huge maps/epic speed is no fun me, just tedious. I don't like having to rush to copper mining (and being toast if there is no copper reasonably available), I don't like building waves of archers/axemen instead of city improvements/wonders, and I just don't like being forced to fight a constant war (I generally avoid war when possible)--and with an opponent that is stronger than the AI civs. Frankly, with GalCiv2 and Oblivion out, I probably won't play much Civ4 unless they patch a more customizable barbarian level ala CivIII.

Yeah I agree with you there completely due to the annoyance factor.
But ironically, once I have comfortably expanded and advanced, the game stops being as fun. This is because I don't like to declare war - the rewards aren't great enough in terms of captured cities. So then all it is is a build rush. And I'm someone who doesn't like to completely destroy other Civs, just cripple them.

I love the barbarians concept and am glad they can once again control cities.
In response to the OP - I'm sure most big civilizations had the same attitude to barbarians as you do in this game. But don't assume too much - ask the Manchu dynasty. In terms of a gameplay concept I understand why it doesn't please everyone, but I love the history in this game.

 

[zeeter]

The reason for barbarians in the game is that for one thing, they make the game a bit more interesting in the beginning. The biggest thing that they do, though, is stop rampant expansion. The babs coupled with the monetary penalties prevent you from performing the settler rush. You really can't move too far away from your first cities with your next one. The new city needs to be supported by the original cities.

Once you get iron working, the barbs are a breeze. They can be taken out with archers, but that's just a waste of archers sometimes. After I get swordsmen I actually hope for barbs so that I can capture their cities. They provide a good amount of gold at a time when most civs are running in the red due to overexpansion.

 

[MattJek]

I just don't see a point of them. All they seem to do is attack you and that's it.....Your basically at war with them all the time, but you can't destroy them (take them out of the game) and every now and then they kill a few of your workers and destroy a few improvement.
Why do they only attack the human players?

Thats why their called barbarians. Did you expect them to walts up to you workers and discuss philosophy with them?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

they re there to make the game harder.

 

[Chieftess]

I just don't see a point of them. All they seem to do is attack you and that's it.

Your basically at war with them all the time, but you can't destroy them (take them out of the game) and every now and then they kill a few of your workers and destroy a few improvement.

Why do they only attack the human players? as well. IMO, they just a annoyance and adds nothing to the game.

Play with barbs set to the max, and agressive AI, and put yourself in an isolated part of the map (better yet, play the Great Plains map for that effect). Like Civ3, you "destroy" them when your culture borders expand everywhere. If not, they reappear. Just look at the coast of Somolia - Pirate ships still roam there.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

The barbarian problem is very realistic to me, I to have problem dealing with them but i'll manage most of the times. i even think that the barbarians are rather weak.

every classical age civ had his or her problems with barbarians, see it as a way to learn if your army is ready to defend its borders. like it is said before if you can't deal with the barbs you ain't ready for the major civs

 

[Helmling]

To each his own, but as a person whose idea of fun is to play a builder/turtle game only on huge maps (which are small enough in Civ4), barbarians are the prime reason I have put the game away for a while. It feels too much like cheating to turn barbarians off, but figthing off the constant waves of barbarians that appar on huge maps/epic speed is no fun me, just tedious. I don't like having to rush to copper mining (and being toast if there is no copper reasonably available), I don't like building waves of archers/axemen instead of city improvements/wonders, and I just don't like being forced to fight a constant war (I generally avoid war when possible)--and with an opponent that is stronger than the AI civs. Frankly, with GalCiv2 and Oblivion out, I probably won't play much Civ4 unless they patch a more customizable barbarian level ala CivIII.

Turn up the number of AI civs. 18 players is appropriate for a Huge map. On those settings Barbs aren't that big a problem.

I'm a builder too, but it shouldn't be *that* easy. That's what Barbarians are for--keeping you from being complacent.

 

[Kerrang]

Turn up the number of AI civs. 18 players is appropriate for a Huge map. On those settings Barbs aren't that big a problem.

I'm a builder too, but it shouldn't be *that* easy. That's what Barbarians are for--keeping you from being complacent.

Hey Helmling! Are you the same Helmling that used to post on the Den of Infidels? Judging by your website, I would say you are. I used to hang out there, and used the handle Ulrich, good to see you around.

 

[FranklinNoble]

Barbarians = Easy Upgrades

 

[The 777 Hoax]

To get on your nerves.