What is your least favorite BNW civilization

[Ianwill93]

Poland. The worst inclusion yet in my opinion..... Especially because it eliminated some other civs from being in the game that I would've much rather had.

 

[iRule]

People really like Portugal the way it was designed, which is quite a surprise for me. A mad queen, a generic UA name in Latin, an evidently uninspired UU, the list goes on. Portugal achieved great culture and impressive deeds, but I feel they are oddly represented. Anyway, I voted Venice because what the hell WHY VENETO?...

What?

Well, you're right on the queen - Maria I was a terrible leader and bears little importance in Portuguese history besides the creation (which actually wasn't a decision of her) of the United Kingdom of Portugal and Brazil. And, well, ultimately that marked the beginning of the demise of the Portuguese Empire (Brazil became Portugal's heart, especially Rio de Janeiro, and would eventually rebel when Lisbon tried to get back its power from Brazil, which resulted in Brazilian independence), but besides that everything fits really well.

The UA name is amazing and shows Firaxis did a great job in Portugal's research. If you don't know what "Mare Clausum" is, google it up. The Portuguese Mare Clausum theory (and its rebuttal by Hugo Grotius) marked the beginning of contemporary International Law, and you know exactly what's at the heart of this expansion pack.

The nau is a rather straight choice for Portugal, but really, what else would describe Portugal? Its abilities are pretty unique though.

The feitoria is far, far from bland, it's a game changer... and so on.

Honestly, the Portuguese civilization would be perfect if not for two things - the odd choice of Maria (I'll never get - I mean, I do get, but come on - what went through Firaxis heads with that) and the hideous introduction for Portugal, that is almost more about Brazil than Portugal, and that's when I really get thinking "what the hell were Firaxis thinking, is there any other Civilization which is almost as much about a different Civ than the very civ itself?".

I know why that happened - Maria, as I said, played a huge role in Brazil's independence, and technically lived (and well, died) in Rio de Janeiro. So Maria was, in a way, the first Portuguese-Brazilian leader of Portugal, and the intro texts are about the leaders, but really, that just shows Maria was a terrible choice by Firaxis.

Besides that, Portugal seems really great. Even the icon - it's light-years ahead in quality of Civ IV's one, and I dare say it's one of the coolest in the game.

P.S - That being said, when I'm talking about Brazil the way I did in this text I'm not saying the issue with me is about Portugal getting mixed up with Brazil. Not at all. It's just that I hate when there's a try to make a civilization the continuation of another one, and it's the first time this happens in Civilization. There are few countries - and peoples - I like more than our Brazilian brothers

 

[PhilBowles]

the hideous introduction for Portugal, that is almost more about Brazil than Portugal, and that's when I really get thinking "what the hell were Firaxis thinking, is there any other Civilization which is almost as much about a different Civ than the very civ itself?".

Arabia's is mostly about Morocco...

 

[Galgus]

Shoshone, they seem only interesting in the first few turns of the game.

 

[Merciorum]

Poland. The worst inclusion yet in my opinion..... Especially because it eliminated some other civs from being in the game that I would've much rather had.

Several centuries of democracy and the largest cavalry charge in history beg to differ.

 

[Kizo]

So how do you achieve rapid expansion with Ceremonial Burial? Religious Texts? Religion spreads at glacial pace without assistance, so missionaries are generally pretty important for all beliefs based on numbers of followers or cities (the former more than the latter).

Itinerant Preachers and keep expanding. The core of an ideal expansionist religion to me is Ceremonial Burial + Asceticism + Itinerant Preachers, adding Desert Folklore/Stone Circles and Pagodas if the terrain allows. I never build temples or buy missionaries; the third Great Prophet is enough to spread religion to the heart of my empire, and Itinerant Preachers does the rest for the remainder of the game, converting all new cities within a few turns of founding them.

 

[JokerJace]

Poland. The worst inclusion yet in my opinion..... Especially because it eliminated some other civs from being in the game that I would've much rather had.

All you Poland haters clearly don't know much about it's history...

 

[anewone]

All you Poland haters clearly don't know much about it's history...

That's not the case most of the time. For me, Poland just seems to be the blandest civ of the new batch. They just get an extra social policy per era, a bit upgraded stables and a mounted UU that doesn't seem to be anything special. It has to be seen how it plays though. Venice would be another one I'm not that fond of, but that's just because I was hoping for another non-European civ. At least it plays really differently from other ones.

 

[DeutschDachs]

That's not the case most of the time. For me, Poland just seems to be the blandest civ of the new batch. They just get an extra social policy per era, a bit upgraded stables and a mounted UU that doesn't seem to be anything special. It has to be seen how it plays though. Venice would be another one I'm not that fond of, but that's just because I was hoping for another non-European civ. At least it plays really differently from other ones.

It's probably the most unique horse unit in the game, I dont understand. If you want a dull horse unit look at the shoshone. I dont see how the stables are much different from a lot of ub that just tweak their original. Only valid complaint ive seen is what do free social policies have to do with poland or solidarity. I personally think that will be fun but i see the point

 

[PhilBowles]

It's probably the most unique horse unit in the game, I dont understand. If you want a dull horse unit look at the shoshone. I dont see how the stables are much different from a lot of ub that just tweak their original. Only valid complaint ive seen is what do free social policies have to do with poland or solidarity. I personally think that will be fun but i see the point

Game mechanic-wise, social policies = ideologies in the late game, which makes them an obvious fit for Solidarity. Poland is what you get when designers think "how can we give this civ an ideology-themed bonus, but in a way that still makes them relevant in the pre-Industrial era?" Half the eras are Industrial or later, so 50% of Poland's bonus is to their ideological tenets (more if you count the Future Era, but for me at least the game's usually over by then).

As for the uniques, I agree it's hard to be thrilled by them. Unique or not, the Winged Hussar is a Lancer replacement and people don't build Lancers. The Ducal Stables are an improved Stables ... but no one really builds those either.

As for me, I'm not a fan of "free bonus" civs that do little to affect the way you play, and whose benefits you don't need to work for. Generally, policies (unlike, say, Mayan Great People, the identity of which you'll often vary depending on timing and game context) aren't timing-dependent beyond "the earlier the better", and so it's difficult to see that getting a few earlier policies will change anything in Poland's playstyle. A unique cavalry unit and military building certainly won't.

 

[Securion]

Game mechanic-wise, social policies = ideologies in the late game, which makes them an obvious fit for Solidarity. Poland is what you get when designers think "how can we give this civ an ideology-themed bonus, but in a way that still makes them relevant in the pre-Industrial era?" Half the eras are Industrial or later, so 50% of Poland's bonus is to their ideological tenets (more if you count the Future Era, but for me at least the game's usually over by then).

As for the uniques, I agree it's hard to be thrilled by them. Unique or not, the Winged Hussar is a Lancer replacement and people don't build Lancers. The Ducal Stables are an improved Stables ... but no one really builds those either.

As for me, I'm not a fan of "free bonus" civs that do little to affect the way you play, and whose benefits you don't need to work for. Generally, policies (unlike, say, Mayan Great People, the identity of which you'll often vary depending on timing and game context) aren't timing-dependent beyond "the earlier the better", and so it's difficult to see that getting a few earlier policies will change anything in Poland's playstyle. A unique cavalry unit and military building certainly won't.

So what your saying is that Poland = Hard Mode?

Just like in RL then? Have Poland ever had it easy...?

 

[phaethon16]

I picked Shoshone, because the bonus for fighting in their own territory as part of a UA is a little bland (I don't mind the Berber cavalry though) and the Commanche Riders look weak. I'll still play them, but I could have done without those two things. All others civs look interesting if you play them right.

 

[Hans Castorp]

I picked Shoshone, because the bonus for fighting in their own territory as part of a UA is a little bland (I don't mind the Berber cavalry though) and the Commanche Riders look weak. I'll still play them, but I could have done without those two things. All others civs look interesting if you play them right.

Me too, because of the UA and the Comanche raider. The Pathfinder looks like a decent enough unit, and I can well believe that the AI will be geared towards using the rapid spread of territory to good effect, but the whole feels fairly unimaginative. (Dis)Honourable mentions on that score must also go to the Zulu and the Polish UA, though I suspect as a package they will both be more interesting to play as. Hard to say before playing though. So much depends on AI character, start biases and so on.

 

[anewone]

It's probably the most unique horse unit in the game, I dont understand. If you want a dull horse unit look at the shoshone. I dont see how the stables are much different from a lot of ub that just tweak their original. Only valid complaint ive seen is what do free social policies have to do with poland or solidarity. I personally think that will be fun but i see the point

Shoshone does have really boring horse unit, but the pathfinder is pretty nifty and I like their UA as well. Social policies fit Solidarity as it's the name of a Polish trade union which was able to cause big changes in society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_(Polish_trade_union)

 

[Sikandar]

Assyria and Venice are the only ones that I especially like.

Pinning down which of the remaining ones I dislike most is too difficult.

 

[XboxAddict77]

I voted for Venice ad Zulu
Venice because I would have preferred Italy of maybe Switzerland, Italy would have fit the whole tourism thing.
I think I'll enjoy playing as zulu but not against the Zulu because I think Shaka will be Vanilla Alexander all over again.
I just hope there's another ex Pack or some dlc to fill my civ wish list.

 

[IkM]

Brazil for me.

btw, favourite faction of most is Venice. also, second least favourite is Venice too. lol.

 

[Rajjah]

Venice is high up on both everyone's favorite civ and least favorite so at least it ignites passion for people. Zulu is currently the least favorite and ranks at the bottom on people's favorites in the other poll which is even worse than people's general meh reaction to Poland.

 

[Ianwill93]

All you Poland haters clearly don't know much about it's history...

Don't particularly care to either. Many had a problem when Austria was included, and I certainly disagreed with them then, but this one seems uninspired and lackadaisical.

I would've personally wanted Mali included in the game as a replacement for Songhai or as a new civ in this expansion. Either way it doesn't matter, I just wont ever play as Poland....

 

[Ianwill93]

I'm surprised about all of the Venice and Brazil haters actually.
Venice sounds somewhat ineffective but at least they're completely different from everything else. I was hoping that the Huns were designed that way when G&K was coming out.

And Brazil is a BRIC nation, you had to know it was coming... lol.