What is your least favorite BNW civilization

[Crafty Bison]

'm gonna reserve judgement on the Zulu. I think I heard someone somewhere suggest that the UB gave +1 movement for all pre gunpowder units. If that was true, it would be awesome, as it's what I love most about Persia anyway, and this one is earlier, when it actually matters.

 

[phaethon16]

I picked Shoshone, because the bonus for fighting in their own territory as part of a UA is a little bland (I don't mind the Berber cavalry though) and the Commanche Riders look weak. I'll still play them, but I could have done without those two things. All others civs look interesting if you play them right.

You know what, I take this back. The Shoshone look like an interesting variety of turtle civ, and I really don't dislike any of the civs. True I'd rather have Italy than Venice and the Zulu don't suit my playing style, but Venice is very interesting and the Zulu will be a fun experiment. I feel a little tacky saying it, but all nine civs look great.

 

[The QC]

For me, Poland just seems to be the blandest civ of the new batch.

For me, the lack of personality in Poland is what makes it great.

I always thought that the game needs a "default" civ, that has bonuses to be competitive, but does not have a pre-defined strategy. You really can do anything with Poland, which you can't say about any other civ. And, while simple, the UA is quite strong.

I have somewhat of a dislike for Morocco, for the mirror reason: they have a lot of pre-defined choices. Grab desert tiles, spam them with Kasbahs, take the Desert Folklore pantheon, build Petra, take a defensive stance and try to trade peacefully... Just too repetitive. It also feels like a 'make or break' civ. If they get Desert Folklore and Petra, they will be strong, if either is missed, time to rage quit.

Having said that, I actually voted for Brazil, which looks very unexciting. I may change my mind if the new cultural victory turns out to be super-fun - I don't see it yet, but maybe...

 

[theadder]

I have somewhat of a dislike for Morocco, for the mirror reason: they have a lot of pre-defined choices. Grab desert tiles, spam them with Kasbahs, take the Desert Folklore pantheon, build Petra, take a defensive stance and try to trade peacefully... Just too repetitive. It also feels like a 'make or break' civ. If they get Desert Folklore and Petra, they will be strong, if either is missed, time to rage quit.

Deviating from a prescribed plan is part of what makes Civ games fun.

I don't think that any of the civilisations require a predefined plan that has to be perfectly executed. I don't see the place for the "rage quit" in Civ.

Work around the lack of Desert Folklore. Take some religious city states, perhaps. Bypass a religion and do other things.

 

[Melo-Franco]

Portugal's mare clausum: okay, I know a little latin and I understand the concept. But it still kind of misses the point when it comes to name something exclusively Lusitanian. First: it was first a Venetian/Genoese (or Roman, if understood in lato sensu) thing. Second: the Iberian mare clausum related to Spanish power as well. It's not especially Portuguese, that's what I mean. I don't like the Carnival name for Brazilian UA for that matter.

Brazil haters: it seems you are frequently a) Antiquity-centered or b) Northern-centric. Sometimes both of them. It's a conceptually impoverished way to understand Civilization's representations, imho.

 

[ToothedBomb]

I voted Portugal. Their unique stuff just seems boring to me. The UI is a little different, but not that useful. I'm not gonna send workers all across the map to build a castle somewhere. Then again, lots of Civs seems boring when you look at just their UA and UU, so maybe they'll turn out better than I expected.

 

[Jman5]

Venice, but not because I don't want to play him. I think he would be fun to play. He will be my least favorite civ to play against.

I like befriending the city states, and this jerk is going to be running around stealing them left and right. My only option will be to bankrupt him with constant trade requests until I am ready to invade.

 

[iRule]

Portugal's mare clausum: okay, I know a little latin and I understand the concept. But it still kind of misses the point when it comes to name something exclusively Lusitanian. First: it was first a Venetian/Genoese (or Roman, if understood in lato sensu) thing. Second: the Iberian mare clausum related to Spanish power as well. It's not especially Portuguese, that's what I mean. I don't like the Carnival name for Brazilian UA for that matter.

Brazil haters: it seems you are frequently a) Antiquity-centered or b) Northern-centric. Sometimes both of them. It's a conceptually impoverished way to understand Civilization's representations, imho.

Well... no. It's actually a very Portuguese and well-thought thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_clausum

It is often applied to Spain's stance on the subject, but it was a mainly Portuguese thing - and the role it played in International Law cannot be overstated. Sure Portugal and Spain were in a dynastic union back then, but this has mainly to do with Portuguese India and the war between the Netherlands and Portugal.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

I find it hilarious how much more popular the least-favorite Civ thread is than the favorite Civ thread.

 

[ImperialChaos]

I find it hilarious how much more popular the least-favorite Civ thread is than the favorite Civ thread.

And the fact that Venice is one of the leading two in both of them.

Since I have not played them yet I voted on the basis of what I wanted to play the least. So my answer would be the Zulu.

While Venice is the one that is the most restricting and would usually be the one I dislike the most; I know for a fact that my curiosity for the Civ will make it one of the first few I play.

 

[OmniPotent42]

Have to say Venice...I mean unless you spawn somewhat near any city-states it will be extremely hard to defend your empire of pure puppets. Sure you can rushbuy units in your other cities but buying units only takes you so far. I would expect them to only be good with the commerce tree + big ben. The great galleas better be amazing to make up for their lack of raw production.

 

[lacond]

are all this poll work for firaxis?

To answer to the question: test before would be the best thing to do. I don't Know, I may have pleasure playing as shaka? Who know?

and other thing, to my feeling the leaderscreen is really important to love and hate some civ.
for example I hate Hiawatha animation and that's why I never go on map where it's present, instead of loving Native american civ as usual.

 

[Melo-Franco]

Well... no. It's actually a very Portuguese and well-thought thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_clausum

It is often applied to Spain's stance on the subject, but it was a mainly Portuguese thing - and the role it played in International Law cannot be overstated. Sure Portugal and Spain were in a dynastic union back then, but this has mainly to do with Portuguese India and the war between the Netherlands and Portugal.

From the source you recommended:

"Romans started then to name this sea mare nostrum (latin for "our sea"). At those times the period between November and March was considered the most dangerous for navigation, so it was declared "mare clausum" (closed sea), although bans on navigation were probably never enforced. In classical law the ocean was not territorial. However since the Middle Ages maritime republics like the Republic of Genoa and the Republic of Venice claimed a "Mare clausum" policy in the Mediterranean."

According to the article, it was first a Roman concept, then the name "mare clausum" was adapted by city states like la Picolissima and Genoa. Only after that, it was employed by Iberian powers. How can that be a distinctive Portuguese feature? A concept claimed more than once inside the Italian Peninsula before it was adapted by the Portuguese? It's like saying wine or olive oil are very Portuguese features: it's not a lie, it's accurate and true (and delicious) in fact, but those practices are not distinctively Portuguese, insofar as they are common to other Mediterranean cultures.

 

[bixbeiderbaby]

Why isn't there a voting option for indifference?

 

[m15a]

From the source you recommended:

"Romans started then to name this sea mare nostrum (latin for "our sea"). At those times the period between November and March was considered the most dangerous for navigation, so it was declared "mare clausum" (closed sea), although bans on navigation were probably never enforced. In classical law the ocean was not territorial. However since the Middle Ages maritime republics like the Republic of Genoa and the Republic of Venice claimed a "Mare clausum" policy in the Mediterranean."

According to the article, it was first a Roman concept, then the name "mare clausum" was adapted by city states like la Picolissima and Genoa. Only after that, it was employed by Iberian powers. How can that be a distinctive Portuguese feature? A concept claimed more than once inside the Italian Peninsula before it was adapted by the Portuguese? It's like saying wine or olive oil are very Portuguese features: it's not a lie, it's accurate and true (and delicious) in fact, but those practices are not distinctively Portuguese, insofar as they are common to other Mediterranean cultures.

why does the UA have to be exclusive to (real world) Portugal? that doesn't follow the pattern set by previous civs: "trade caravans", "ingenuity", "diplomatic marriage", etc.

edit: or are you just saying that you'd prefer if the UA was real-world exclusive?

 

[CornPlanter]

Venice. Civilization that cannot find cities in a 4X game?

 

[nunor]

From the source you recommended:

"Romans started then to name this sea mare nostrum (latin for "our sea"). At those times the period between November and March was considered the most dangerous for navigation, so it was declared "mare clausum" (closed sea), although bans on navigation were probably never enforced. In classical law the ocean was not territorial. However since the Middle Ages maritime republics like the Republic of Genoa and the Republic of Venice claimed a "Mare clausum" policy in the Mediterranean."

According to the article, it was first a Roman concept, then the name "mare clausum" was adapted by city states like la Picolissima and Genoa. Only after that, it was employed by Iberian powers. How can that be a distinctive Portuguese feature? A concept claimed more than once inside the Italian Peninsula before it was adapted by the Portuguese? It's like saying wine or olive oil are very Portuguese features: it's not a lie, it's accurate and true (and delicious) in fact, but those practices are not distinctively Portuguese, insofar as they are common to other Mediterranean cultures.

That's like saying Carnaval isn't a distinctively Brazilian thing, because it was an European festivity before, introduced by the Portuguese.

It doesn't matter who started it, but who got it better and successful Ask Edison and Gates. (Geez, I'm not defending them, I'm just being jocose)

 

[iRule]

From the source you recommended:

"Romans started then to name this sea mare nostrum (latin for "our sea"). At those times the period between November and March was considered the most dangerous for navigation, so it was declared "mare clausum" (closed sea), although bans on navigation were probably never enforced. In classical law the ocean was not territorial. However since the Middle Ages maritime republics like the Republic of Genoa and the Republic of Venice claimed a "Mare clausum" policy in the Mediterranean."

According to the article, it was first a Roman concept, then the name "mare clausum" was adapted by city states like la Picolissima and Genoa. Only after that, it was employed by Iberian powers. How can that be a distinctive Portuguese feature? A concept claimed more than once inside the Italian Peninsula before it was adapted by the Portuguese? It's like saying wine or olive oil are very Portuguese features: it's not a lie, it's accurate and true (and delicious) in fact, but those practices are not distinctively Portuguese, insofar as they are common to other Mediterranean cultures.

If you follow that line of thought you end up with no UAs at all. There isn't a single UA which is "exclusive" to one civilization. But do give an idea for Portugal.

I mean, not even Roberto Leal (-10 culture per turn, growth stagnation in every city, -10 tourism because of Brazilian jokes about him) is an exclusively Portuguese thing, as you've [Brazilians] raised that monster.

 

[Merciorum]

Venice. Civilization that cannot find cities in a 4X game?

It buys them instead .

 

[Melo-Franco]

why does the UA have to be exclusive to (real world) Portugal? that doesn't follow the pattern set by previous civs: "trade caravans", "ingenuity", "diplomatic marriage", etc.

edit: or are you just saying that you'd prefer if the UA was real-world exclusive?

The second option: it's not a case of necessity, but preference. In my estimation, UAs are better when related to national myths: USA's "manifest destiny" is a good example in the New World. Those "myths" (as I don't have any better word for it) are not (only) connected to the deeds from a civilization whatsoever: they are abstractions, fictional beliefs about future - which have real-world consequences as a motive power for a people.
An idea: the Origin Myth about Lisbon having been founded by Ulysses (Ulyssippo was the city's name in Greek) was informed by Ancient geographer Strabo and this tradition has flourished greatly in Camões' oeuvre (The Lusiads). An UA named "Founded by Ulysses" related to Portuguese maritime creativity (close to that of Ulysses himself!) would be really inspiring. During a conversation, a friend came up with the idea of an UA named Sebastianism, referring to the king Sebastian's mythical return. I don't like this idea for the following reasons: it's not representative enough for the variety of Portuguese people (for most Portuguese, Sebastianism = BS) and it sounds like an elaboration poorly based on anedoctal lunacy.
Personally, as a Brazilian myself, I don't think an UA named Carnival is that great, since it's not an uniquely Brazilian feature. Moreover, it's slightly clichéd. Nevertheless, I'd rather support this mildly stereotyped inclusion than not having Brazil included at all - I'd say we're dealing with an important diversity question. Dom Pedro II is a stern and serious leader, a little counterpoint to the most stereotyping aspects about carnival, party people and everything.