What is your least-used civic?

Serfdom, Environmentalism (usually it's either SP or FM for me).
Caste system is rarely used by me too, mainly because I need all citizens during growing city period, and later on usually I have enough of libraries, temples or whatever it is to hire required specialists. But Caste is still nice. Police state and Nationhood - until I've tried it, I thought they're useless. They. Are. Not. :aargh: :groucho: :D
 
Caste system is good because your high food/low production cities don't need to bother with a library to run scientists.
 
I use all civics at some point, although not all in the same game. The exception is serfdom which needs some sort of food bonus, maybe +1 food per city.
 
I use all civics at some point, although not all in the same game. The exception is serfdom which needs some sort of food bonus, maybe +1 food per city.

I don't thnk that's enough to make it worthwhile to switch. Extra food has nothing to do with the reason you'd adopt Serfdom. The only reason I'd use it for is to chop through a huge jungle and chain irrigate half a continent. At present it is only for Spititual leaders or during a GA (when I'd normally use Caste System anyway) when it's worth switching.

So I propose the Serfdom should give 100% boost to worker effort and give workers an extra MP (like the Indian UU) and further the Serfdom civic should not add to civic switching times. Then you can switch from Slavery into Serfdom and Bureaucracy and OR (say) and then later when you're going to war switch out into Slavery, Vasslage and Theocracy (say) and the anarchy times for those switches would be the same as if Serfdom had not been changed. That would make Serfdom a useful civic and one I'd use.
 
further the Serfdom civic should not add to civic switching times.
I don't think this kind of feature is a good idea, since it creates an exception from the rules on civic switching, rather than being a feature of the civic itself (not sure if I am making my point clear).

I think instead, a 25% bonus to worker and settler production (similar to Police State on units) would be good, imo.
 
Just throwing ideas out. The other thing about serfdom is that it's dirt cheap so if your a spiritual AI or have a GA, don't plan to whip (those slave revolts are annoying), or run extra specialists through Caste system it's a decent option. Again, I use it on occasion but thread was least favoriste civic.
 
UncleJJ:

We agree on a lot of Civic usages. I use my Civics pretty much a lot like you! Vassalage for the early war, Police State for the late game war, Nationhood for drafting and happy faces, and so on.

I rarely use Serfdom myself, but I have used it on occasion. The question is, is the Hagia Sophia's Worker benefit at all worth getting it? The effect is similar and the cost is similar. Instead of bothering to build Hagia Sophia, why not just build more Workers?

A few times, I used Serfdom for a wartime benefit. I used it to build roads to the frontline through ravaged and conquered enemy territory very fast. I could've used more Workers, but I didn't want to expose a lot of them to enemy attack, and they were rather far away to begin with. Here, I had a few captured Workers now, and they'll do the job fine, if they had a little boost.

In another game, I used Workers under Serfdom post-Railroads. I had just acquired Railroads and realized that I could use Railroads to get my Drafted troops to my frontline faster. I didn't have enough Worker to do the job fast enough. I couldn't have enough Workers to do the job fast enough. If I had one Worker for every tile I had to railroad, it still would be too slow. Of course, I didn't have that many Workers. Doing Serfdom for a while made my Railroad Transport System come online about 50% faster, which was worth the switch from Caste.

Occasionally, I'd use Serfdom to quickly retool enemy lands into more sensible patterns. And yes, I had to clear cut half a continent's worth of jungle from time to time, particularly about the same time I acquire Feudalism.

Still, it IS my least used Civic, and I tend to use pretty much all the Civics, depending. To make Serfdom more appealing, I'd suggest that it also allows you the power to "draft" workers. Two to a pop point sounds about right. That'll make it much more powerful for chain-irrigating the world, while also allowing you to retain benefits afterwards.


General Commentary

I notice a lot of people don't appreciate Environmentalism. I use Environmentalism rather extensively actually. In the immediate run up to Assembly Line and Industrialism, I often Windmill many hills just in preparation for it. The thing is, without Medicine and Hospitals and using both Factories and Coal Plants, your pollution tends to shoot sky-high. This tends to cost you a pop point or two in your largest cities.

Rather than deal with that, I use Environmentalism. Under Environmentalism, each grasslands hill produces 2 food, 2 hammer, and 4 Commerce. 5 Commerce if you're Financial. That's butch. Moreover, your National Park City gets 2 Commerce each for the Forest Preserves.

With the proper preparation, and without Corporations to muddy the issue, Environmentalism can equal or exceed Free Market in Commerce and also deal with pollution issues until after you finish building your health buildings. Any small losses you get from using Windmills instead of Mines is easily recouped with Factories and Coal Plants, with interest.
 
Hagia Sofia gives you rare Great Engineer points though so it is worth building just for that I find.
 
The fact that you're building the Hagia Sophia for the GPP kind of indicates that its benefit is kind meh, right?
 
Agreed. Hanging Gardens is a lot better but it is nice to have engineer points in a wonder heavy city so you can get a positive feedback loop going.
 
The only one I have never used is Serfdom. I can only see using it if Spiritual and happen to get Feudalism before CS. Since I pretty much don't ever get Feudalism before CS, I never run Serfdom. I couldn't imagine switching out of Bureaucracy for it. Edit: I'm an idiot and forgot serfdom was labor not legal. But I always have enough workers. Maybe if I was putting down rails and didn't have any workshops ...

Environmentalism is rare for me to use, but I have used it on isolated starts when low on health resources. It is very useful when it is needed.

Everything else has its time. Police State from the Pyramids can be pretty sweet sometimes for an early rush when more happiness doesn't mean more production.
 
@xanadux
Serfdom is Labor, not Legal civic. It competes against Slavery and Caste System most of the time, usually losing the battle. Can't see it winning against Emancipation either really...
 
I rarely use vassalage. I don't get feudalism until late since I generally trade for it and rarely research it myself (unless I really want guilds badly). I will use serfdom and pacifism if I'm spiritual. I will use police state very frequently but that's because I tend to war the most in that time period and WW becomes a serious issue (especially combined with draft :mad:).

I will have to try vassalage+theocracy swords next time to see if that helps early conquests though.
 
Vassalage+Theocracy+barracks+stables is pretty sweet for 3 promotion mounted units. But if you already have a couple settled GG, and produce most of your units in 2 cities, probably not as good as Bureaucracy and Theocracy.
 
The only one I have never used is Serfdom. I can only see using it if Spiritual and happen to get Feudalism before CS. Since I pretty much don't ever get Feudalism before CS, I never run Serfdom. I couldn't imagine switching out of Bureaucracy for it.

Environmentalism is rare for me to use, but I have used it on isolated starts when low on health resources. It is very useful when it is needed.

Everything else has its time. Police State from the Pyramids can be pretty sweet sometimes for an early rush when more happiness doesn't mean more production.


::signed::
I don't think I could have put this better.
:agree:
 
environmentalism - never have I switched to this

vassalage - only used during feudalism slingshots, otherwise I usually have bureaucracy and nationalism first, which I would always prefer one of those two

serfdom - seldom used when spiritual. Or, if my happiness levels and city growth exceed my improved tiles by a large margin and even then it would be case specific (like, having feudalism). You can always whip away citizens working junk tiles or run specialists.

free market - usually the jump from banking to economics to communism happens real fast in my games. My typical jump is from mercantilism to state property.
 
Environmentalism-the Health and Happy bonuses come a little to late in the tech tree, and I usually have cut down most of my forests and jungles.
Police State-even if I have the Pyramids, I never go with Police State, simply because its upkeep, coupled with army costs, drives my costs through the roof and results in 0% research, usually with a deficit even then.

Check out my sig before talking about the BTS benefits.:lol:
 
I hardly use Vassalage, Serfdom and Caste System.

Bureaucracy gives more benefits then Vassalage so i will try to get Civil Service earlier than Feudalism.

Serfdom is kinda useless. Just build or capture a few more workers.

I seldom use Caste system because i like to rush buildings/wonders by whipping :)
 
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