What is your least-used civic?

[illram]

I hardly ever use vassalage, serfdom, and environmentalism. Not to say these civics aren't useful, just that I never really learned how to get the most out of them and my style isn't geared towards using them. With that said, if I am spiritual anything goes and all of this is irrelevant.

a) No Vassalage b/c in the early game when it becomes available bureau usually nets me more overall than the free unit bonus would (but I will use vassalage if the bureau bonus isn't worthwile) and I also prefer using theo if the extra XP is what I am after;

b) serfdom b/c I rely heavily on slavery and in the rare cases that I don't whip, it's caste system (until emancipation)

c) environmentalism b/c it's either SP or FM. The health bonus isn't useful unless I really am lacking in health resources, which is rare towards the end of the game when environmentalism becomes available. Ditto for the lack of forests. Also the extra corp costs make it inefficient if I am running sushi or other corps; in my games I am either really spread out and using SP or heavily spamming corps and raking in the dough, so enviro just gets lost in between.

 

[dankok8]

I don't generally use Pacifism, Environmentalism, Serfdom, and Police State almost ever. In addition, I only use Vassalage and Theocracy from time to time.

 

[Cer]

There are tons of civics I barely ever use. I rarely use pacifism, organized religion, or theocracy. I don't like to switch out of bureaucracy once I get it (to keep my commerce going strong) so that keeps me from using nationalism or vassalage.

Serfdom is useful on lower levels where your cities can get big early (higher happy cap), but I've been playing on levels where slavery is preferable lately.

I barely ever use environmentalism (don't need the health that badly) or free market (warmongering messes up my chances at good trade routes, so mercantilism works better).

I kind of like police state, although war weariness has to be pretty bad before the happiness advantage of police state outweighs the advantage from representation. The military production boost isn't bad, either. I don't like hereditary rule as much, because I like to send most of my units off to war rather than keep them in my cities, where they tend to do nothing but cost me gold. I rarely use Universal suffrage because I usually want the science boost of representation rather than the chance to lose science by making more gold and converting it to production.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Pacifism is great when going for the liberalism race, I can't understand why people don't like it. It's like saying philosophical leaders are bad (because that's what the effect is, except you need the state religion in your city to get the effect).

 

[Cer]

ParadigmShifter, I don't know about everybody else but I don't think pacifism is bad, I just think that building a huge army that I couldn't afford under pacifism is works better for me. Pacifism is a civic that has a huge effect on the game because the benefit is so good and the cost (of your units) is ridiculously high for warmonger civs.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I find pacifism comes around during the "rebuild your economy after the first big war" myself when I tend not to go on a big rampage (organised religion would help here too of course, but I tend to ignore most of the religious techs in my play style so I don't always have monotheism). After liberalism and the economy is sorted it is goodbye jaw-jaw and hello war-war once again.

 

[LcOiVvE]

Pacifism, without a doubt. Why bother forcing yourself to pay more for military units' maintenance, when most of the fun is having at least SOME battles.

 

[Nishdog]

I rarely use Environmentalism anymore. I've never run Nationhood.

My favorites are Representation/Bureaucracy/Caste System/Mercantilism/Organized Religion.

 

[Calder]

Well prior to my current game I had never ever used Nationhood, Police State or Vassalage, ever, since Civ IV came out! My current game is the first time I've ever had some real military competition, I guess that comes from experiencing the top levels. There is a mighty Qin in this game and its the first time I've had to give away a city to sue for peace. I was forced into Police State since Qin DOW me 2 cities away from finishing off Boudica after a 100 years of war. And Qin has three vassals to boot. But I've just reached Rifling now before anyone else, so I'm about to experience Nationhood for the first time, drafting riflemen while spamming Cavalry and taming the mighty Qin!
Vassalage will remain the only civic not to be used - Bureacracy and Theocracy are stronger. I actually think Vassalage needs a boost, maybe +4 experience, as losing Bureacracy is too much to lose.

 

[The-Hawk]

Nice thread... interesting to see such a diversity of opinion. Some people are sure civic x is the best, others never use it.

I suspect a major reason for the variation is people tend to gravitate to a certain style of play, map types, map sizes, game speeds, victory conditions. All of these affect selection of civics (yes, even map size). One of the nice things about the Quattromaster competition in the HOF is it forces you to be a generalist (you need to submit wins on all map types, victory conditions, levels, leader countries, etc.). As a result, you find yourself using many of the civics. With the caveat that I mostly play huge maps and monarch -> deity to maximize points, I find there are three civics that almost never come into my games. I believe all other civics can be viewed as critical under certain circumstances. The three losers:

Nationhood: Don't think I've ever used it. Only way I can see myself using it is in a crisis. I.e. an AI backstabs me and I need units in a hurry. In a military game, this should never happen. For warmongering, give me bureau or vassalage every time. Because of the nature of HOF games (taking risks for fastest finishes), if you get backstabbed in a peaceful game (culture, space), nationhood won't help.

Serfdom: In a future era start, this can be good to jump start land improvements. However, I almost always start ancient era, and slavery always seems better. Having said that, as a few posts pointed out, when playing a spiritual leader, I've probably been a bit lazy about taking advantage of it. So, maybe of the three, this is the one I should be using.

Environmentalism: I've never, ever used it. It comes way too late in the game. Unless you are playing for space or time, you never even research ecology. If you are playing space, then State Property is better, if Time, then any of the other Economy civics are better (since you should have a bazillion cities).

One thought for the people who never run vassalage (in favor of bureaucracy). Don't forget that vassalage reduces unit cost. If you have lots of units, this can partially cover the commerce boost from bureau. If you are warmongering on a huge map, you will have many cities building many units. If you are warmongering really well, you will have teched to a unit advantage, then turn off tech and focus 100% on production (e.g. research to Praets, turn off tech, spam Praets, kill AIs). If you are going for conquest (and therefore don't need to worry about your economy), then the commerce boost from Bureau is pretty unimportant. At that point, give me +2 experience every time. Having 20-30 cities getting the +2 advantage may be better than 1 city getting extra production. I probably run bureau more than vassalage, but in certain circumstances, Vassalage + Theo is huge.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

I like switching into Serfdom every now and then if I'm running a CE and I'm Spiritual - if I've got nothing to whip I can have my workers improve quicker.

I never use Police State - unhappiness is solved with culture, and the 25% bonus to unit production means nothing in a HE/IW city.

I've never used Environmentalism either, if unhealthiness is that bad I just forgo factories/power.

I only ever used Vassalage once, and that was to get the diplo bonus with Mehmed so he would vote for me and win me a diplo victory.

 

[bardolph]

I hardly ever use Environmentalism, and rarely use Police State and Pacifism (I'm too much of a warmonger to use Pacifism).

I actually use Serfdom quite a bit, and running Serfdom makes it a hell of a lot easier to pillage/rebuild during a war.

Slavery is awesome, of course, but once I solve my happiness problems (Monarchy and later), I'd rather have the population.

 

[lauralaura]

I never run Environmentalism. Free Market and State Property leave it standing.

I do make use of Serfdom, especially if I'm spiritual. Once I have Hereditary Rule to make the people happy, I cut way down on the whippings, and if I've got a nice big chunk of land to develop, serfdom works nicely. I wouldn't endure anarchy just to use Serfdom, but if anarchy isn't an issue, I'll go for it.

I almost never use Police State. Once I've got Mt. Rushmore and jails and in my big cities, I don't find war weariness too much of an issue, even in my usual late-game domination wars.

I do use Vassalage and Theocracy pretty frequently for medieval wars. Very handy. Nationhood as well if I've got more cities than money and have rifles available.

I don't usually run Pacifism or Caste System, but they do have their uses (often together). Especially if I'm isolated.

Really, Environmentalism is the only real dog in the bunch. There's a time and a place for everything else.

 

[ICNP]

I don't know how to whip so i'll throw down Slavery, and since I never seem to get to deep with WW I would say Police State and Nationhood (Actually I never have used them). And finally Free Religion unless i'm going late start in which case I don't really bother building my religions up.

Oh and I rarely use the one with no trade routes but maybe i'm just being narrow minded.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Serfdom, Environmentalism, Police State, and Nationhood for me. Although I can definitely see myself using those last to sometime, as they are both really good for late game wars. I tend to use pacifism alot because it really help for cultural victories.

 

[Diamondeye]

I don't understand why everbody says serfdom, it's actually a fair civic. It is better than the first and with low upkeep aswell.

 

[KMadCandy]

2nd line (??): Bureaucracy
5th line (religion): Pacifism (get a grip, who plays peacefully? )

2nd line: what's your favorite there?

5th line: me, very very often . but pac isn't always my choice in that line anyway.

I don't understand why everbody says serfdom, it's actually a fair civic. It is better than the first and with low upkeep aswell.

it's never the first one i research, so the choice is never "serfdom or nothing."

 

[bardolph]

it's never the first one i research, so the choice is never "serfdom or nothing."

It's usually a choice between Serfdom, Slavery, and Caste System.

If my happiness cap is high enough that I can grow my cities, I usually prefer growth to the whip, and if I'm running a Cottage Economy, I usually don't have enough food to run tons of specialists, so I don't need Caste System.

That leaves Serfdom, which gives me enhanced Workers and low upkeep

 

[tboner23]

I have only used serfdom when not paying attention with a spritual leader. Otherwise I have NEVER used Police state. I don't fight many late game wars. I am, however, changing that in my current game.

 

[blakos]

Environmentalism and Police state great late game civics. To avoid war weariness and in cities post industrialism.