Nah, whip a library, it costs at most 2 pop right? Then you get +25% science from there on out, and 2 pop regrows really quickly in any decent high food city. Caste system is really just for those times when one really needs a certain kind of GP, and/or when one is running a hardcore SE and doesn't have enough of the buildings that unlock the desired specialist(s). I tend to go slavery->emancipation and go from SE to CE before or at least concurrently with emancipation.
What is your least-used civic?
- Thread starter Martinus
- Start date
Nah, whip a library, it costs at most 2 pop right? Then you get +25% science from there on out, and 2 pop regrows really quickly in any decent high food city. Caste system is really just for those times when one really needs a certain kind of GP, and/or when one is running a hardcore SE and doesn't have enough of the buildings that unlock the desired specialist(s). I tend to go slavery->emancipation and go from SE to CE before or at least concurrently with emancipation.
I wouldn't say serfdom is useless, there are times when I really need more worker-turns and it's worth the anarchy. For instance after a big expansion when your core is less reliant on slavery, or if you are suffering from widespread pillaging (try playing always-war on epic speed to see it shine).
That being said, I do think it needs a buff. I find it odd that caste system was buffed in BtS instead. I think good way to buff it would be to add +1 commerce per farm.
That being said, I do think it needs a buff. I find it odd that caste system was buffed in BtS instead. I think good way to buff it would be to add +1 commerce per farm.
Charou
Warlord
A financial leader would likely cottage the river anyway. So think of it this way, they can choose a farm with serfdom and get +1
, but then they must give up slavery and the tile won't develop to a town. That doesn't sound unbalanced in my opinion, but I'd like to hear other ideas too.
, but then they must give up slavery and the tile won't develop to a town. That doesn't sound unbalanced in my opinion, but I'd like to hear other ideas too.
RockTheCazbah87
Pacal's pal
The only civics I really use are the ones I aim to get early in every game -
Representation / Free Speech / Caste System or Emancipation / Free Market / Pacifism or Free Religion.
So i don't really use any of the others. Except when I can't get what I'd like, so i'll use Org. Religion instead of Pacifism and whatnot.
Representation / Free Speech / Caste System or Emancipation / Free Market / Pacifism or Free Religion.
So i don't really use any of the others. Except when I can't get what I'd like, so i'll use Org. Religion instead of Pacifism and whatnot.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Adding commerce to a farm is overpowered, although a very good idea consistent with what serfdom is.
There is no upkeep (the only labor civic that has that) which may be enough. Caste system got improved in BTS, and Slavery got nerfed a bit (well, not nerfed, but a little more penalty). Hell, some civic has to be weaker.
I still say +1 food per city is a nice fix, and make it low upkeep rather than none.
The other good idea I read is 100% worker spped rather than the 50% currently available.
There is no upkeep (the only labor civic that has that) which may be enough. Caste system got improved in BTS, and Slavery got nerfed a bit (well, not nerfed, but a little more penalty). Hell, some civic has to be weaker.
I still say +1 food per city is a nice fix, and make it low upkeep rather than none.
The other good idea I read is 100% worker spped rather than the 50% currently available.
Scaramanga
Brickhead
Enviromentalism seems the most useless... unless you chop all your forests and leave the jungles for some reason 
. Then you'd really need the health.
. Then you'd really need the health.DeaExMachina
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2007
- Messages
- 168
Call me crazy but I almost never use Slavery. The whole whipping my own people rarely becomes enjoyable for me, I've actually only used it mass scale during the Fall from Heaven mod. Even if I adopt Slavery I at most whip two or three things before moving it to something more useful to me.
I also can't stand Emancipation and unless its the very late game and I'm over flowing with gold I never use Universal Sufferage as I prefer paring off Representation with Merchantilism and Pacifism to run a specialist economy.
I also can't stand Emancipation and unless its the very late game and I'm over flowing with gold I never use Universal Sufferage as I prefer paring off Representation with Merchantilism and Pacifism to run a specialist economy.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I simply shun Serfdom.... does not appeal to me ( slavery beats it easily ).... Don't like Theo as well, but I reckon that it has his uses.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
I've never used Vassalage. If I want that free promotion there is Theocracy, which doesn't force me to give up Bureaucracy and is unlocked by the same tech as the incredible Apostolic Palace.
I've never willingly used Environmentalism, though the U.N strongarmed me into it once.
Serfdom, Caste System, Pacifism and Police State are poo, but poo worth fishing out of the toilet every now and then. I rarely use them, but it does happen.
I've never willingly used Environmentalism, though the U.N strongarmed me into it once.
Serfdom, Caste System, Pacifism and Police State are poo, but poo worth fishing out of the toilet every now and then. I rarely use them, but it does happen.
Civfan333
full metal alchemist
My obvious favorite is slavery(only in the game though) I'd say that the worst is caste system and mercintilism.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Definitely Serfdom (almost never), closely followed by Police State and then Mercantilism to a lesser extend (I use it at least in every 4th game or so)
kakitadairu
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 71
Serfdom is extremely limited, but I can see running it at the start of a Golden Age (when you do all of your normal civic switching), since you want to grow into a GA and keep on growing population during it, get 7-11 good turns with it, then switching back to your default Slavery/ Caste System right before the GA ends. Serfdom is probably tied with Caste System as the best labor civic during GAs.
Police State is vital if you are going for domination during the later eras. War Weariness increases fast and you don't want to deal with both WW AND Emancipation frownies. The production bonus is great too.
For my personal play style, I tend to leave the religious civics well enough alone. I don't find any of the religious civics pre- Free Religion to be worth a turn of Anarchy switching to, AND having to spend another turn in Anarchy to adopt a religion (causing diplomatic problems), AND having to build missionaries to spread religion to the relevant cities. Free Religion comes early enough in the game that I don't feel like I'm missing anything out of that entire tree. That being said, if I had a different play style or was running a Spiritual leader, it would be different. Organized Religion is a must for a wonder-spam strategy and useful if you acquire a new religion to spread post- scientific method, and Pacifism for SE/ Golden Ages like Serfdom.
I find Representation to be worthless if you don't get it from the Pyramids. In normal situations by the time you get Constitution your Tech cities already have towns, and the Happiness is only useful early. Representation for me is only for One City Challenge.
For me the Economic civics are the most lop-sided. First, they all become available really late and all at once, practically. Second, Free Market and State Property are just way, way, way ahead Mercantilism and Environmentalism. Environmentalism used to be peachy in OCC but its pointless now because of National Park.
So my least used are:
Environmentalism. Not even useful to diplomatic purposes.
Mercantilism. Only use is if you are desperate to get on Toku's good side.
Theocracy. Only worth it to get on Isabella's good side.
Representation. Useless by the time you normally get it unless you have serious economic or happiness issues.
Cheers,
Dai
Police State is vital if you are going for domination during the later eras. War Weariness increases fast and you don't want to deal with both WW AND Emancipation frownies. The production bonus is great too.
For my personal play style, I tend to leave the religious civics well enough alone. I don't find any of the religious civics pre- Free Religion to be worth a turn of Anarchy switching to, AND having to spend another turn in Anarchy to adopt a religion (causing diplomatic problems), AND having to build missionaries to spread religion to the relevant cities. Free Religion comes early enough in the game that I don't feel like I'm missing anything out of that entire tree. That being said, if I had a different play style or was running a Spiritual leader, it would be different. Organized Religion is a must for a wonder-spam strategy and useful if you acquire a new religion to spread post- scientific method, and Pacifism for SE/ Golden Ages like Serfdom.
I find Representation to be worthless if you don't get it from the Pyramids. In normal situations by the time you get Constitution your Tech cities already have towns, and the Happiness is only useful early. Representation for me is only for One City Challenge.
For me the Economic civics are the most lop-sided. First, they all become available really late and all at once, practically. Second, Free Market and State Property are just way, way, way ahead Mercantilism and Environmentalism. Environmentalism used to be peachy in OCC but its pointless now because of National Park.
So my least used are:
Environmentalism. Not even useful to diplomatic purposes.
Mercantilism. Only use is if you are desperate to get on Toku's good side.
Theocracy. Only worth it to get on Isabella's good side.
Representation. Useless by the time you normally get it unless you have serious economic or happiness issues.
Cheers,
Dai
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
1st line (gov): Police State
2nd line (??): Bureaucracy
3rd line (labor): Slavery (what? Is he a wackie? yeah, maybe, but I hate the random event, it can really ruin your day/game, and medium upkeep+anarchy makes it not worth the anarchy)
4th line (economy): Enviromentalism (give me one good reason to switch from State Property!)
5th line (religion): Pacifism (get a grip, who plays peacefully?
)
2nd line (??): Bureaucracy
3rd line (labor): Slavery (what? Is he a wackie? yeah, maybe, but I hate the random event, it can really ruin your day/game, and medium upkeep+anarchy makes it not worth the anarchy)
4th line (economy): Enviromentalism (give me one good reason to switch from State Property!)
5th line (religion): Pacifism (get a grip, who plays peacefully?
)Bureaucracy pacifism and slavery make up the foundation of many games. How can you not use them. Seriously you need allot of army for pacifism to get really bad(compared to empire size) since upkeep cost is huge. You also get a heavy -upkeep cost + base free troops in addition from difficulty level. Even with only 1 gpp farm you often have to pay for like 20+ units before it even cost you more than paganism, at least at lower levels. Paying for 20 units is way different than actually having 20+ units mind you since you get loads of free bonuses.
Slavery is one of the most powerfull civics in the early game as it allow you to produce things so much faster than they would be made otherwise. Read various articles on slavery and you'll understand how truly insane it is.
Bureaucracy is the civic that singelhandly produce the most commerce in the whole game, evne before taking into account the amount of extra hammers it gives you, the fact that it is multiplied with other multipliers make it insanly broken and gives your capital which is often your most developed city the ability to produce monsterous amounts of commerce(200+ in the BC's easily after multipliers and hence 60+ from the civic alone). Even without this it can boost the production of your capital tremendously if you have focused it that way instead. I just can't see how anyone can think this anything but broken even with the current high upkeep.
Slavery is one of the most powerfull civics in the early game as it allow you to produce things so much faster than they would be made otherwise. Read various articles on slavery and you'll understand how truly insane it is.
Bureaucracy is the civic that singelhandly produce the most commerce in the whole game, evne before taking into account the amount of extra hammers it gives you, the fact that it is multiplied with other multipliers make it insanly broken and gives your capital which is often your most developed city the ability to produce monsterous amounts of commerce(200+ in the BC's easily after multipliers and hence 60+ from the civic alone). Even without this it can boost the production of your capital tremendously if you have focused it that way instead. I just can't see how anyone can think this anything but broken even with the current high upkeep.
I never use Enviormentalism. And once I have Civil srvice i stay there the entire game.
The civic I never used before was Serfdom, but I have actually found myself using it for a brief period every game. Usually in the early industrial period when I am techingbuilding things for my next war and have my infrastructure in place, I have disbanded a large number of my workers do to the high costs of units as i build a huge army. When I discover Railroads I will briefly switch to Serfdom and set the workers to building railroads. getting the choo choo tracks on my mines and connecting my military cities to all my other cities is a high priority. Especially since I want to get machineguns defending my cities as soon as possible. once I have the empire connected i switch back to my final days of Caste system before Democracy forces me to adopt Emancipation.
Something I do not like about emancipation is the unhappiness if you choose not to run it. I think the penalty should apply only to those civs running slavery and maybe serfdom.
The civic I never used before was Serfdom, but I have actually found myself using it for a brief period every game. Usually in the early industrial period when I am techingbuilding things for my next war and have my infrastructure in place, I have disbanded a large number of my workers do to the high costs of units as i build a huge army. When I discover Railroads I will briefly switch to Serfdom and set the workers to building railroads. getting the choo choo tracks on my mines and connecting my military cities to all my other cities is a high priority. Especially since I want to get machineguns defending my cities as soon as possible. once I have the empire connected i switch back to my final days of Caste system before Democracy forces me to adopt Emancipation.
Something I do not like about emancipation is the unhappiness if you choose not to run it. I think the penalty should apply only to those civs running slavery and maybe serfdom.
Bianezzi
Warlord
rarely uses Caste System
GenocideBringer
King
- Joined
- May 29, 2005
- Messages
- 628
What does the # of cottages have to do with it?
For me? Serfdom/Slavery, police state, State Property/Mercantilism, theocracy.
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