What is your most "fun" difficulty?

[adwcta]

Emperor is too easy for me after BNW (I've always had a peaceful strategy and my strengths are AI diplomacy and growth mechanics; weaknesses are combat and specialists), so BNW made my life a lot easier, to the point where Emperor is no longer fun. This was my G&K "fun" difficulty level.

Immortal's still fun though on BNW, and I can test out random strategies and openers and feel challenged, but still assured victory.

Deity's when I wanted to be focused on honing a particular strategy.

 

[Chee]

Immortal seems the best level for me. I win some, I lose some (probably about 70% win ratio).

I have actually just started my first Deity game. Expecting to get crushed.

 

[Tich]

I don't think BnW has a fun difficulty any more. If you want to get things like religion and world wonders then you have to play on like Emperor or Immortal. The problem with those difficulties is that they're mindnumbingly easy. I have a friend who's barely played civ and he bought BnW the other week and started playing it. First game was as Brazil on King and his next was Venice on Emperor. Got his Immortal win as Venice on his very next game. Now he's moving up to Deity and he's just started playing. It's pretty bad lol. He has no idea what to build nor how to win but it just doesn't matter on most difficulties.

Deity is somewhat challenging but only for the first 100 turns or so when you can conceivably lose. Until the AIs mass expand there's still a chance that they might wage war with you after all. Once their borders and cities crop out and meet the game just ends though since it becomes trivial to pay them to wage war with one another. You can keep each civ at war with 1-2 other nearby civs and ignore any semblance of military/defense yourself. I've never gotten to turn 150 or later and lost for that reason alone. AIs do not DOW more people if they're currently at war (or at least it's never happened to me) and they're always willing to DOW people once borders become highly contested. Pretty lame.

 

[InDubioProReo]

Immortal for me. Though I'm working on getting a Deity domination win, so far no luck though.

 

[bison21]

Emperor I really like trying out Immortal from time to time to see where I get mulled- my weaknesses are knowledge of buildings and how to maximize cities- and to me that makes all the difference between Emperor and Immortal.

I like Emperor because it is not so forgiving with mistakes as King is and the AI usually gets most wonders and religion very early (some deity flavour there), but it does not require a massive amount of pre-planning and knowledge of maximizing. I will get there eventually though

 

[Fragamemnon]

Deity is where it's at, even with broken religion , size 37-38 AI cities at turn 200 standard speed, turboteching biology/flight beelines, and miraculous wonder spam. Anything else is too easy and doesn't present a set of difficult problems to solve.

I do hate it though, because while it does present a lot of problems for the player the solutions are often very similar game to game without a lot of variance.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Emperor will probably be my "fun" difficulty. I get the lead on King too easily, while Immortal or Deity just get too annoying with the carpets of doom and of course entire parts of the game disappearing like early wonders and religions.

 

[Saintkat]

Emperor will probably be my "fun" difficulty. I get the lead on King too easily, while Immortal or Deity just get too annoying with the carpets of doom and of course entire parts of the game disappearing like early wonders and religions.

That sums it up for me. Emperor is less frustrating (and therefore a lot more fun) at the start of the game for me as I can at least snag A wonder and can be part of the religious experience. The mid-late game gets way too easy though on Emperor (and therefore not as fun), and really miss Immortal for that. This ends up with me being super frustrated on a bunch of Immortal starts, then bumping down to Emperor to have some early game fun, then getting bored towards the end of the Emperor game. Maybe I should just suck it up more with the mechanical Immortal starts and stick with it.

If they could balance out a setting that had an Emperor beginning and Immortal mid-late game in terms of difficulty, then I think they would have be a difficulty that was consistent throughout the ages, at least for me.

 

[JustinianIV]

I don't think BnW has a fun difficulty any more. If you want to get things like religion and world wonders then you have to play on like Emperor or Immortal. The problem with those difficulties is that they're mindnumbingly easy. I have a friend who's barely played civ and he bought BnW the other week and started playing it. First game was as Brazil on King and his next was Venice on Emperor. Got his Immortal win as Venice on his very next game. Now he's moving up to Deity and he's just started playing. It's pretty bad lol. He has no idea what to build nor how to win but it just doesn't matter on most difficulties.

Deity is somewhat challenging but only for the first 100 turns or so when you can conceivably lose. Until the AIs mass expand there's still a chance that they might wage war with you after all. Once their borders and cities crop out and meet the game just ends though since it becomes trivial to pay them to wage war with one another. You can keep each civ at war with 1-2 other nearby civs and ignore any semblance of military/defense yourself. I've never gotten to turn 150 or later and lost for that reason alone. AIs do not DOW more people if they're currently at war (or at least it's never happened to me) and they're always willing to DOW people once borders become highly contested. Pretty lame.

Sorry, but I find this rather difficult to believe. How can your friend, who has minimal Civ experience, go to playing on Deity in a matter of several plays? What is even more unbelievable about this is that you claim he has no idea how to win or how to build!

Many experienced immortal players on this forum have had losses on immortal BNW. I myself have struggled at times. I have 700 hours of civ experiences and I know almost all of the mechanics. I know all sorts of strategies and have an intimate knowledge on how the AI "thinks". Even then the runaways will DoW me, or the early warmonger will rush me. Of course I can handle it, but a new player would be obliterated.

Either:

1) Your friend is some sort of naturally gifted Civ savant (unlikely since you say he doesn't know how to play or even the victory conditions.)

2) Your friend got extremely lucky in each game. (Can't picture that either, although people do win the lottery.)

3) Your friend is lying to you.

 

[Chee]

Sorry, but I find this rather difficult to believe. How can your friend, who has minimal Civ experience, go to playing on Deity in a matter of several plays? What is even more unbelievable about this is that you claim he has no idea how to win or how to build!

Many experienced immortal players on this forum have had losses on immortal BNW. I myself have struggled at times. I have 700 hours of civ experiences and I know almost all of the mechanics. I know all sorts of strategies and have an intimate knowledge on how the AI "thinks". Even then the runaways will DoW me, or the early warmonger will rush me. Of course I can handle it, but a new player would be obliterated.

Either:

1) Your friend is some sort of naturally gifted Civ savant (unlikely since you say he doesn't know how to play or even the victory conditions.)

2) Your friend got extremely lucky in each game. (Can't picture that either, although people do win the lottery.)

3) Your friend is lying to you.

I agree. I have about 600 hours on the game and read a lot about it too on these forums. I am playing comfortably at Immortal now but I find it impossible believe somebody could survive at this level without such knowledge of the game.

 

[Tich]

Sorry, but I find this rather difficult to believe. How can your friend, who has minimal Civ experience, go to playing on Deity in a matter of several plays? What is even more unbelievable about this is that you claim he has no idea how to win or how to build!

Many experienced immortal players on this forum have had losses on immortal BNW. I myself have struggled at times. I have 700 hours of civ experiences and I know almost all of the mechanics. I know all sorts of strategies and have an intimate knowledge on how the AI "thinks". Even then the runaways will DoW me, or the early warmonger will rush me. Of course I can handle it, but a new player would be obliterated.

Either:

1) Your friend is some sort of naturally gifted Civ savant (unlikely since you say he doesn't know how to play or even the victory conditions.)

2) Your friend got extremely lucky in each game. (Can't picture that either, although people do win the lottery.)

3) Your friend is lying to you.

He played civ 4 a bit and watches me play from time to time. He hasn't played much civ at all but started playing since "the rest of the gang does." He's one of those people who always changes the game to "hard" on his first playthrough and hates easy games. If something doesn't challenge him then it'll instantly bore him. That's why he never opts for the easier settings.

The first civ that he picked was Brazil since he played civ 4 a bit and he knew a bit about using your civ's influence to overtake another's. He just built random buildings and when Japan waged war with him he managed to defend against it because he built some units. He kept building units and producing culture buildings and eventually he won on turn 450 randomly. He had no idea what he was doing but he just eventually won. Didn't use Great Musicians or anything.

Then he started playing Venice. All he does is mass caravans and buys up and/or "marries" every city state. He uses their armies to defend him and rush buys anything that he needs to survive. He just pays people to wage war with each other. He picked that trick up having watched me play and abuses it constantly with Venice's gold output. He easily won his first immortal game. He liked the civ because "they're different" and he tends to like the unique teams.

He got his Deity win today also as Venice. Easy diplomacy win on the first vote. Had 16k gold, every single CS and was paying every single civ to DOW each other. Did nothing relevant all game and never got attacked. He just sat on his pile of gold and only gave it away to start wars.

He's not lying to me. I watched him get his first Deity win today while we were playing Tales of Xillia. I was even sitting at desk hitting "next turn" for him as the vote was counting down (he's player 1 so always controls the character when we play Tales games). He was making 450 gold per turn, had 20k banked and every single civ was at war with at least 2 other people. Yes, this was on Deity.

Venice is a joke civ. He doesn't know how to science win. He doesn't know how to culture win. He doesn't know how to get extra delegates. He barely knows how spies work. All he does is build caravans, buy city states and pays people to go to war. Venice is one of the most face-roll easy mode civs that's ever existed. Try them yourself if you want. He's not an amazing civ player. He couldn't just take any civ and win on any map on Deity. That's not the point. The point is that he found a strategy that works for him and that suits his playstyle. He did it in basically no time at all and it didn't take him long to get enough basics down to win on Deity.

 

[JustinianIV]

He played civ 4 a bit and watches me play from time to time. He hasn't played much civ at all but started playing since "the rest of the gang does." He's one of those people who always changes the game to "hard" on his first playthrough and hates easy games. If something doesn't challenge him then it'll instantly bore him. That's why he never opts for the easier settings.

The first civ that he picked was Brazil since he played civ 4 a bit and he knew a bit about using your civ's influence to overtake another's. He just built random buildings and when Japan waged war with him he managed to defend against it because he built some units. He kept building units and producing culture buildings and eventually he won on turn 450 randomly. He had no idea what he was doing but he just eventually won. Didn't use Great Musicians or anything.

Then he started playing Venice. All he does is mass caravans and buys up and/or "marries" every city state. He uses their armies to defend him and rush buys anything that he needs to survive. He just pays people to wage war with each other. He picked that trick up having watched me play and abuses it constantly with Venice's gold output. He easily won his first immortal game. He liked the civ because "they're different" and he tends to like the unique teams.

He got his Deity win today also as Venice. Easy diplomacy win on the first vote. Had 16k gold, every single CS and was paying every single civ to DOW each other. Did nothing relevant all game and never got attacked. He just sat on his pile of gold and only gave it away to start wars.

He's not lying to me. I watched him get his first Deity win today while we were playing Tales of Xillia. I was even sitting at desk hitting "next turn" for him as the vote was counting down (he's player 1 so always controls the character when we play Tales games). He was making 450 gold per turn, had 20k banked and every single civ was at war with at least 2 other people. Yes, this was on Deity.

Venice is a joke civ. He doesn't know how to science win. He doesn't know how to culture win. He doesn't know how to get extra delegates. He barely knows how spies work. All he does is build caravans, buy city states and pays people to go to war. Venice is one of the most face-roll easy mode civs that's ever existed. Try them yourself if you want. He's not an amazing civ player. He couldn't just take any civ and win on any map on Deity. That's not the point. The point is that he found a strategy that works for him and that suits his playstyle. He did it in basically no time at all and it didn't take him long to get enough basics down to win on Deity.

Thanks for the explanation, however it sounds like you were the one who was grossly exaggerating when you said:

He has no idea what to build nor how to win but it just doesn't matter on most difficulties.

What you describe now is someone who does know how to play. He might not know that the strategies he is using are considered good strategy in the civ community, but so what? If what you are telling us is true, then he obviously learned enough between his Civ IV experience and watching his friends play. Because games like Civ don't require any physical skill or hand-eye coordination, it is entirely possible to learn general strategies second-hand. He also sounds naturally skilled.

It just doesn't make sense that a new player can win on Deity after only several games yet still not know what they are doing. On this forum you hear about people who lose on Prince level... now those sound more like people who don't know what they are doing. (Not hating on you Prince players, but you'll know what I mean after playing 300+ hours.)

I'll credit you that it is quite possible to get some VCs ignorantly, usually diplomacy and culture.

I've never played as Venice, so they might be insanely easy. Although he did win as Austria so... he must be that good. I'd love to see some of his games.

I assume that the settings he plays on do not enable him to get easy wins.

 

[Tich]

What you describe now is someone who does know how to play. He might not know that the strategies he is using are considered good strategy in the civ community, but so what? If what you are telling us is true, then he obviously learned enough between his Civ IV experience and watching his friends play.

Sure, he picked up a bit and knows a bit of what to expect given his minor civ 4 experience. That doesn't really change the fact that he doesn't know what anything does until he reads it. He builds units and buildings that seem good at the time. He doesn't know how to active pursue any of the non-Diplomatic VCs. Well, I mean, he doesn't know how delegates work nor how they're acquired. He just buys CS allies and eventually someone hits the Information Era (or whatever era is required to get the diplo win, I've never actively pursued it myself) and they vote him the winner.

It just doesn't make sense that a new player can win on Deity after only several games yet still not know what they are doing. On this forum you hear about people who lose on Prince level... now those sound more like people who don't know what they are doing. (Not hating on you Prince players, but you'll know what I mean after playing 300+ hours.)

He's watched us play and knows that you can bribe the AIs to war with each other. The game is trivialized once you're aware of it. He literally sits there, build caravans, pays Gheghis Khan (any warmonger) to wage war with 5-6 people and hits "next turn" while buying up every CS as he gets the gold to do so. he can give out as much gold and as many resources as he wants since CSes provide him with happiness and his 10+ trade routes give him obnoxious amounts of gold.

Anyone can win this game on Deity as Venice once you have a basic understanding of the game mechanics using the diplo victory. If you can play this game on Emperor then I 100% guarantee you that you can. It's literally as easy as spending 40 turns building caravans and paying the people near you to wage war with one another using your gold and excess luxuries. Even if you don't tech fast yourself the AIs will and once the vote triggers the game is virtually locked.

I'll credit you that it is quite possible to get some VCs ignorantly, usually diplomacy and culture.

I've never played as Venice, so they might be insanely easy. Although he did win as Austria so... he must be that good. I'd love to see some of his games.

He won as Austria? He's only played like 6 games total. 2 Brazil and then like 3-4 as Venice. I think he's done exactly 1 Emperor, 1 Immortal and 1 Deity game.

Try a game yourself if you think that I'm full of crap. Pick Venice, settle on a coast and build caravans (and sea caravans as they become an option). On turns 70 or so start paying nearby civs to wage war with each other if possible. Keep building caravans and fill up those ~8 trade early routes you get from AH, Sailing, Engineering, etc. I forget what the next one is but I mean it comes reasonably quickly. Buy CS allies (mercantile first) for happiness and use your excess gold/luxuries on war bribes. Focus on buying science buildings and grow your capitol with sea food caravans once your gold needs are met. They give 8+ food per turn which is absurd. I 100% guarantee you that anyone who can play this game on Emperor can win as Venice on Deity.

I assume that the settings he plays on do not enable him to get easy wins.

He plays on Continents, quick movement, no other modifications. He hates easy games and would never use easy settings.

 

[Fish Man]

Feels proud about winning first emperor game
Sees people here complaining about how easy Immortal is
I go

Emperor is challenging for me since every game seems to be a race to deal with the runaway AI. I like it because of the difficulty.

This is G+K btw, and I have just over 200 hrs.

 

[Qoma]

I wish I could have Emperor start difficulty but with Immortal AI behavior the rest of the game.

 

[chazzycat]

immortal is probably the level I should be playing on, but I've been having too much fun on emperor. Being able to actually build the wonders you want is nice.

But it'll probably get old soon and I'll be back to immortal.

 

[Lord Alexander]

I guess Emperor for now. King can keep me on my toes for a bit but once I get to Renaissance ill be in control and there is no stoping me. Emperor seems different the AI can keep up rather well with me but still if you can get on top of things and minimize war you should be good.

 

[Fluxx]

Immortal is the most fun for me.
Mostly due to it giving me the freedom to explore all facets of the game, in contrast to having half of the gameplay stripped away from me on deity.

Founding a religion on deity is a complete diceroll, unless you have the celts/ethiopians.
Attaining any of the ancient/classic wonders is near impossible except for the Oracle and sometimes the stonehenge.

Deity did improve alot though with BNW partially due to scripting, and partially due to the happyness changes, but I still am not a big fan of it.

Also anyone claiming they have a guaranteed 100% win rate on immortal is purely boasting without any real backing. There are enough immortal starts where you will have an uphill battle, or simply are behind from turn 1.
Sure if you have MD's luck, and you build 2 archers up to turn 120, and avoid getting dowed by agressive civs then anything is possible, but the reality is that if you get dowed by a medieval GK/Zulu's with 6-7 cities and he doesnt go full herpaderp, you will have enough problems holding them back.

 

[Matthew.]

The game has gotten easier. I don't know if it is more flexibility through trade-routes or the happiness changes to AI or what, but Immortal feels like G&K Emperor to me. Wonders are still difficult to get, like G&K Immortal, but the overall difficulty is lower. I'm not even sure an Immortal runaway could finish the game in ~300 turns, which was fairly common in G&K. Last Immortal game I played I was tech leader at T200 with only like 350 science.

Oh, and the "religion game" has gotten harder.

 

[Buccaneer]

The game has gotten easier. I don't know if it is more flexibility through trade-routes or the happiness changes to AI or what, but Immortal feels like G&K Emperor to me. Wonders are still difficult to get, like G&K Immortal, but the overall difficulty is lower. I'm not even sure an Immortal runaway could finish the game in ~300 turns, which was fairly common in G&K. Last Immortal game I played I was tech leader at T200 with only like 350 science.

Oh, and the "religion game" has gotten harder.

That brings up a good point. You're right in that there hasn't been an AI winner in under 300 turns, come to think of it. However, for some (ok, just me), the game is playing longer, esp. culture when going up against cultural/religious civs.