What preperations do we need for the next war?

[FionnMcCumhall]

those 48hrs isnt gonna help me write the majority of the build queues . Feels like im governor of the country again hehe. ANyways to state domestics hand in this. While i agree we should build up our military we cannot let our cities continue to grow slowly. Any upgrades for units will have to take place after we get more money in the treasury or we will go bankrupt and unlike the US we cant keep spending

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Okay, Plan "A"ers
/me pulls out queues.
Morgana - [c]University(8), Marketplace(15), Aquaduct(15), Temple(9)
The Burrow - [c]University(1), Cathedral(12), Courthouse (9)
Morgana-----------> Knight, Knight, Knight
The Burrow----->musket, musket, knight
Lets see......
My current queues will run out in ~47 turns for Morgana and ~22 for The Burrows. Neither city here has a planned military unit.
/me Opens Civ
Lets see... (again)
Morgana's queue is a help to the city. It will help boost science, allow the city to grow and raise happiness. I could add your plan (30 turns) to the end of the queue. I am not modifying that city.
The Burrow isnt growing any time soon, so the happiness wonder isnt exactly needed. Nor is the courthouse, but both are helpful. Your plan would take 32 turns. Depending on Domestics opinon, I may place this after the university.
Good Day.
Governor SaaM

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Okay, Plan "A"ers
/me pulls out queues.
Morgana - [c]University(8), Marketplace(15), Aquaduct(15), Temple(9)
Morgana-----------> Knight, Knight, Knight
Lets see......
/me Opens Civ
Lets see... (again)
Morgana's queue is a help to the city. It will help boost science, allow the city to grow and raise happiness. I could add your plan (30 turns) to the end of the queue. I am not modifying that city.
Good Day.
Governor SaaM

Thank you for your cooperation SAaM. It is good to know that the University of Morgana will be there to help us keep our technological edge.

BTW, just how many beakers do you estimate the university will add at our current zero percent science rate?

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Donsig: not included in this post were plans for two scientists. While I feel science should be brought up to anything, and yes, I do realize the lack of effect this will have. If any.
And next time you critisize, please go lighter on the sarcasam. Just all out "Youre an Idiot" would do better.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
those 48hrs isnt gonna help me write the majority of the build queues . Feels like im governor of the country again hehe. ANyways to state domestics hand in this. While i agree we should build up our military we cannot let our cities continue to grow slowly. Any upgrades for units will have to take place after we get more money in the treasury or we will go bankrupt and unlike the US we cant keep spending

From Plan A:

We have 16 border towns. This plan will give us a musket in each of those and one to send with the front troops in the attack. This is with no upgrades, so the approximate 2600g we earn during this time would not be affected. But we must re-connect the Saltpeter immediately.

Plan A is a call for a reasonable amount of Fanatika's production to be geared towards our military. As you can see from the above excerpt from Plan A it does not call for any gold to be spent.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Donsig: not included in this post were plans for two scientists. While I feel science should be brought up to anything, and yes, I do realize the lack of effect this will have. If any.
And next time you critisize, please go lighter on the sarcasam. Just all out "Youre an Idiot" would do better.

*donsig erases original reply and starts over*

Even with scientists the effect of the university at zero percent science will be nil. My understanding is that the science rate will not be raised until our economy can support it. While our other cities are building markets to get us there we need the older and more productive cities to raise a sufficient force for us. Waiting 30 turns to start building that force means we will lose the opportunities that are before us now. Cyc has presented a good plan to alllow us to take advantage of these opportunities. His plan does call for some cities to postpone their cultural and happiness improvements but the plan also does not use any gold. If we can manage to implement Plan A and use the force thus generated to extort techs then there will be much more gold to go around to rush the city improvements. I for one would gladly support a fair amount of this gold to go to those cities that postponed building thier universities and such in order to produce knights.

Can't we find ways such as these so we can follow a good plan?

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

ok let me put it this way

growth = lower production cost

constantly focusing on military instead of growth = higher productions costs. we cannot rest on the cities that produce high already, all of the cities should be at the same level at least. We have 46 cities and the majority are growing slowly. Lets try a new approach and stop warmongering for a few and look at our nation. IF we can get the majority of the cities to grow some more then we can wage a more effective war

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
ok let me put it this way

growth = lower production cost

constantly focusing on military instead of growth = higher productions costs. we cannot rest on the cities that produce high already, all of the cities should be at the same level at least. We have 46 cities and the majority are growing slowly. Lets try a new approach and stop warmongering for a few and look at our nation. IF we can get the majority of the cities to grow some more then we can wage a more effective war

*donsig erases original reply and starts over after counting to ten and taking a deep breath*

We have not been constantly focusing on military production. Here is an excerpt from Plan A:

By using 28% of our cities for strictly Military Production, we will (if we use the cities listed below...) dedicate 52% of our shields to the cause. At the end of 32 turns we will have 17 Muskets and 24 Knights.

Under Plan A 72% of our cities can grow to their hearts content. Yes, we are warmongering. That's the strategy we decided on in the beginning and that's the strategy we've used till now. Because we've done that it would be very dangerous for us to rest on our laurels now. We must continue with our strategy or face serious threats down the road. Asking for half of Fanatika's shields for the military is not unreasonable considering we may well be able to extort techs at the peace table in our wars. Note that Plan A calls for no gold expenditures. A good portion of this gold can go towards rushing city improvements to get us that growth you're talking about Fionn. Fanatika can grow and continue on its warmongering path to greatness!

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

i dont want to rush improvements, my idea is not to spend much of our treasury at all. so we can have money for other things. but im guessing my opinions will fall on deaf ears anyways since its more than likely that Plan A will be enacted, but it will prolly be enacted after this turn chat as i would like to start getting money coming into the treasury. Point number 2 by making sure all cities have libraries and universityies we may be able to raise the tech rate (whoa) and maybe research a tech for ourselves for a change. Our civ traits are militaristic, scientific, or have we forgot that part and just remembered the military part

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

another point, im fully reccomending we connect the saltpeter now as oppsed to later so we dont have to waste money later on down the line for a massive upgrade later on

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by donsig
BTW, just how many beakers do you estimate the university will add at our current zero percent science rate?

The point is not how much it will add at our current science rate, but how much will it add at a potential future science rate.

Let us not forget that we would like to eventually start researching for ourselves and selling those techs to the others instead of always being 2 or 3 steps behind the competition in the tech race.

 

[Plexus]

Originally posted by FortyJ

The point is not how much it will add at our current science rate, but how much will it add at a potential future science rate.

Let us not forget that we would like to eventually start researching for ourselves and selling those techs to the others instead of always being 2 or 3 steps behind the competition in the tech race.

Hoorah! Great speech, Mr. President.

 

[Cyc]

First of all Mr. Stuck, if you had read "PLAN A", you would have seen that Morgana was not on the list of cities that were to receive immediate changes. The line in the proposal that says "we let everything run its present course, completing what is queued up." means that we would let every city run its present course and complete whatever is currently queued up. When the listed cities complete their current task, then the switch would be made.

So you see, Stuck? Morgana would get the University. It would just have to wait a little longer for its Marketplace and Aqueduct. This is not really a bad thing as Morgana is not a growth city anyway. But at least it will be training smart Knights, because it will have the University.

Remember, all cities on the list would finish their current project. Only cities listed for a change would be changed. Didn't I mention that?

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by FortyJ

The point is not how much it will add at our current science rate, but how much will it add at a potential future science rate.

Let us not forget that we would like to eventually start researching for ourselves and selling those techs to the others instead of always being 2 or 3 steps behind the competition in the tech race.

Yes, I understand that. However this university will complete in 8 turns. If we are 20 or 40 turns away from raising the science rate then there is plenty of time to build Morganna U. later and still reap the science benefits when we raise our research rate.

Do you have any estimates of when we will be able to raise the science rate?

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
i dont want to rush improvements, my idea is not to spend much of our treasury at all. so we can have money for other things. but im guessing my opinions will fall on deaf ears anyways since its more than likely that Plan A will be enacted, but it will prolly be enacted after this turn chat as i would like to start getting money coming into the treasury. Point number 2 by making sure all cities have libraries and universityies we may be able to raise the tech rate (whoa) and maybe research a tech for ourselves for a change. Our civ traits are militaristic, scientific, or have we forgot that part and just remembered the military part

You don't want to spend gold on upgrades (or so you said earlier) and you don't want to spend gold on improvements. Is there anything you are willing to spend gold on?

As for point 2 you may want to read the post above.

I pose the same question to you: do you have any estimate of when we will be able to raise the science rate?

 

[Shaitan]

Regarding the science rate: Never.

There is no need to ever raise the science rate and severe penalties if we ever do. There is no way to compete with the AI's advantages in researching and inter-trading technology at this level unless we are so dominant that relative tech levels are academic in any case.

Being the science leader is neat and fun, but it's something to do on Monarch and lower difficulty games. It's not practical on Emperor or Deity.

Science buildings are still important for the culture they give but I'll argue strongly against ever building them for actual research benefits.

 

[Cyc]

The reason I included that statement about cities like Morgana completing their current project is for the Cultural benefit of improvements like a University. Morgana is right there off the coast of America, we will need the Cultural magnet there to help any cities that we conquer. In Leningrado, where a Temple is being built, I recommended that it switch to a Barracks. This was a hard decision, as a Temple would throw in the extra Culture that I just refered to. But I see a Barracks being a more important improvement.

 

[Cyc]

An Informational Poll on "PLAN A" concerning Military production has been started HERE. Please vote. Governors are encouraged to post their opinion.