What the heck is wrong with you people?

[King Flevance]

I am not comparing Diablo to Civilization, I comparing Blizzard's appreciation for the quality of their work to that of (not the makers) but the testers/people who say 'lets release!' to Blizzard's view on it. If the game is not ready to be released, dont try and rush it out and not pay attention to minor details LIKE the label issue or the French manuals. I dont care about the discs but it shows a great deal of how rushed this was. C'mon man, its so blatently sitting there. I am just using it as a prime example, dont attack me.

Blizzard takes pride in their games as much as the artist that doesnt want you to see his picture until its completed, or the writer who doesnt want you reading his book until he has finished (this includes proofreading, and all in all being happy with it.) Sure it may take some extra time to get to the shelves. We all dont own other games we can play while we wait for them to perfect their art until they are ready to unvail it? That is a good release.
Just because other companies do this doesnt mean you have to do it too. These fast paced companies pop up and die out so fast now it seems. I could be wrong though, I dont pay that close attention anymore. It seems everytime I see a game I like the makers always someone I never heard of. and some of the old games I have I enjoy I never hear from them now.

The game is pretty cool man, no doubts there but this is one of the SHABBIEST releases. It is just fact. To heck with how good the game is, the release was not cool. Its Monday and alot of people havent heard from anyone from tech support this whole RELEASE WEEKEND. Whats that about? You didnt expect people to have problems? Everyone on the boards seemed to. Then the people left hanging are having to put up with snoody comments from the people that have ubah machines/worked out of box. These probably being people that work their jobs, dont know or care much about computers and just want to play the game.
The people that have the game working and being rude are just mad they are Firaxis/Take 2 support desk now. LOL. j/k but its true maybe.

 

[snepp]

Doesn't Blizzard develop and publish their games?

I'd venture to guess that if Firaxis were their own publisher, they would not have this game on the shelves.

 

[King Flevance]

Doesn't Blizzard develop and publish their games?

I'd venture to guess that if Firaxis were their own publisher, they would not have this game on the shelves.

Not 100% sure on this but I think Blizzard does. Thats why it takes forever for them to come out with titles.

 

[TerraHero]

to keep it short, not a single prob with Civ4.

And i got an ATI card.

installs smooth, runs smooth. No crashes, memory leaks, disapearing stuff. Only bug i have really encountered so far is when you paly online and you join a game and my mouse pointer remains as the pointer it takes when loading while its actually done loading, but i cna still click ready and then paly the mutliplayer game like a sunshine.

Oh and this is also the same deal for a friend of mine, altough the occaisional Norton pop-ups with Civ4 could disrupt his game and 1x even crashed.

But thats about all issues.

 

[Martinus]

Hear hear! Great post/thread jipnard.

 

[Chayton]

Blizzard is the company that makes Warcraft and the Diablo 1 & 2... they may have a couple more games but I cant think of anymore atm. They ensure a game is practically 99% bug free before releasing it.

Yes for that they also scrap 70% again of the features they say that the game has. Like with Warcraft 3, which turned from a ground breaking rpg/rts game into a stupid "just run along the path and kill everything in sight" game.

The only thing Blizzard is good in these days is hyping up their "games" with very cool trailers and intros and thats it.


As for the Civ4 bugs, i understand people frustration when they cant play because of a copy protection, or graphical bugs, but whining about that on a CD doesnt stand Disk 2 is just ridecoulus. Thats like you complain about a bread because the word "Bread" isnt carved into it. Those guys should actually be lucky that they dont have any bigger problems in their life than that a CD is wrong titled.

 

[Martinus]

Yes I would, Blizzard does it and I understand why.

Sorry, but I have yet to find a forum where people dont voice their opinion wether its good or bad. To say they should not be allowed to do it is rediculous. I havent complained too much but I have had my words taken waaay outta context by people playing high and mighty on here. And I am highly addicted to stating my opinion. Big shocker there huh? One person says they are having difficulties on this forum right now and people are jumping down their throats shouting 'RESPECT FIRAXIS! I LOVE THE GAME!!'
I know there are bad posters too but c'mon man, most people are being curtious and the annoying one pop in from both sides.

As for disc 1, yeah its not hard but... isnt it Firaxis's job to get the sticker right? honestly? or take 2 or whomever, please dont correct me on whos fault it is to prove you know it. I dont care, I dont want to work at these companies or know about them, I want them to put the right damn sticker on.

Don't get me started about Blizzard. Have you played World of Warcraft? The level of customer service and tech support is far from perfect. Constant problems with servers crashing, game crashing, immense lag that is blamed for 4 weeks on customers and then they realise it is on their side and apologise, etc. Don't get me wrong - I like Blizzard and I like Firaxis, but I don't really see that much of a difference between the two when it comes to their games' quality and tech support.

 

[Libertarian]

to keep it short, not a single prob with Civ4.

Ah, a man with a full belly. We who are hungry should be grateful for your vomit, I suppose.

 

[Overlag]

I'm not only having trouble running the game, I'm having trouble trying to learn what is needed to run the game. People have gone out and bought new cards in the hopes that it would run. They've bought duplicate copies of the game in the event that they had a bad disk. They've bought new CD-ROM drives to read the disks. They've bought whole new systems. They've toiled for days fiddling with registry settings, ini files, pak and unpak rituals, deletions, removal of programs, reinstallations, downloading drivers, and updating specs. They've even, for God's sake, turned off their virus protection and disabled firewalls — all in an attempt to get a stupid game to run on computers that should have run it straight out of the box. People are doing workarounds and jerry rigged "fixes". They're playing the game with jerkiness, stuttering, crashes, and memory leaks. If the people responsible for releasing this do not end up facing a class action law suit for the unnecessary time, expense, and anguish they've caused people, it will be more than they deserve.

thats funny, i just put the dvd in the drive, installed, and played, no issues at all, except for the fact i killed half my ram last week so only have 512mb ram right now, and its making it really slow to run.... But that should be expected, i mean Civ3 took over 400mb ram to run, and when the OS needs 200-300 itself.... it doesnt fit into 512 does it?

The only complain for Civ 4 is the memory leak issue. My computer can start the game with no problem, run the video with no sound problem and load the whole map creation pretty quick. However, after 30 minutes of gameplay (with large map), the memory leak issue kicks in... FPS drops like crazy, and stops me from playing.
I have been a PC gamer with the days of 486 machine playing Simcity 2000.
I never have any real big problem with any Sid Meier's games. To me, the name of Sid Meier is equal to quality games. But this time... this memory leak problem is somewhat a dissapoinment and it clearly shows Civ4 dev team didn't get a lot of time to do testing and debugging. I rather wait for another couple months (sometime like Christmas when I have holidays to enjoy the game) to have a Civ 4 that runs prefect.

How is that a memory leak? Theres ALOT of info needed to be stored, and its filling your ram up, untill it hits the page file. Did you ever play Civ3? Civ3 on a large map with a full list of Civ's caused lag, even with 1024mb ram....

 

[King Flevance]

Yes for that they also scrap 70% again of the features they say that the game has. Like with Warcraft 3, which turned from a ground breaking rpg/rts game into a stupid "just run along the path and kill everything in sight" game.

Yet as you say yourself "Turned from (as in it came out as "ground breaking rpg/rts game") into a stupid ...
I never said their patches were great. You got me there man, I agree Blizzard can screw up a game that fine by fixing something that isnt broken. Their hacker/exploit protection is poor too. I wouldnt doubt WoW gets hacked and ruined by cheats soon.

As for the Civ4 bugs, i understand people frustration when they cant play because of a copy protection, or graphical bugs, but whining about that on a CD doesnt stand Disk 2 is just ridecoulus. Thats like you complain about a bread because the word "Bread" isnt carved into it. Those guys should actually be lucky that they dont have any bigger problems in their life than that a CD is wrong titled.

I was merely using the CDs as an example (As I always have when I refered to them) of how much proof this is of a rushed relief. They obviously werent paying attention to what they were doing, which means they were worried more about time then efficiency.

Don't get me started about Blizzard. Have you played World of Warcraft? The level of customer service and tech support is far from perfect. Constant problems with servers crashing, game crashing, immense lag that is blamed for 4 weeks on customers and then they realise it is on their side and apologise, etc. Don't get me wrong - I like Blizzard and I like Firaxis, but I don't really see that much of a difference between the two when it comes to their games' quality and tech support.

I already said I am aware WoW has issues and besides its an online game. All MMORPGs have bugs. Always will too. Tech support on it. Dont know, I wasnt impressed by anything I have seen from WoW yet. I think they went too far trying to make WoW an online RPG. Warcraft is a RTS. IMO they would have done better to make a more elaborate Diablo series MMORPG. Would have had better story content potential and graphics. Warcraft they go too cartoony on for an online RPG for my taste. At least with Diablo they stick to an element of realism. Only MMOs I play are City of Heroes, which is limited in super powers, but the game offers good potential. And Anarchy Online, which have their act together but unfortunatley based off the platform or whatever its on doesnt have much life left in it with the leading competition. I give them less than 5 years, though there is a really great Sci-Fi MMO there they could easily make a part 2 and do well, but I doubt it will happen

 

[zonk]

For those that are having success running Civ IV -- good for you, I'm quite jealous. I really am because the title truly looks like it would be a lot of fun, and just the few maps I've gotten to look at seem great....

But to just dismiss the "whiners" out of hand is BS -- because there are a lot of legitimate gripes.

I meet the rec'ed sys requirements with the sole exception of an older GeForce3 vid card that only meets the minimum of 64 megs. I should be able to run this game - I'm completely up-to-date on all drivers; hell, I even updated the damn MOTHERBOARD driver, printer drivers, - things with nothing to do with the game -- everything I could. I've got the graphics and options throttled down as far they'll go. I've incorporated some of the ideas from the technical forum (deactivating certain things directly in the game config, etc).

No dice. I don't honestly see how anyone can claim that the minimum reqs are something other than complete fiction -- and even the rec'ed specs are probably a bit under what you need.

Lawsuit? Yeah, silly idea. Profanity-laced tirades? Absolutely non-productive. Complaining about some superficial aspect of a sprite? I agree - give me a break. The disk labeling issue? Sure, suck it up.

But come on.... Since you saw the need to post this "defending Firaxis/Sid/TakeTwo/whatever" thread -- you've obviously noticed that it's not just a few malcontents that are upset their old Tandy won't run what really does look it would be a very cutting edge game (if I could get to turn 2 without a freeze, CTD, or hard reboot).

I mean, I don't think it should be asking to much to be able to play a game out of the box without adjusting your VM, or learning what the hell AGP apperture in BIOS means.... at least -- not if you meet the requirements on the box.

At this point -- I've paid $50 for a very nice intro movie and a Leonard Nemoy soliloquy. Return it? Love to -- but most retailors have this "thing" handing out refunds on opened software.... so I'm screwed.

The specs seem pretty clearly designed to net the greatest number of buyers without any regard to whether the lower end folks would have anything more than a nice motivator to go out and buy a new video card, another stick or 2 of RAM, or a new rig altogether. That's not right.

Fact is - I'm just disgusted with this whole experience. Yeah, yeah - you'll certainly notice I just joined the forums this weekend... But I've purchased every Civ related bit of software since the first iteration -- I through IV, PTW, Conquests, Alpha Centauri, you name it. I even bought the "Civ III complete" package, even though I already owned everything in it. To this day -- I keep an older laptop up and running because it's still got Civ II on it, and I've long since lost the disk.

Neither Firaxis nor Taketwo, or anyone else "owes" me anything beyond a little honesty about what I need to play the game, and a game that will actually run. I got neither here.... I've been through the early EU versions, the horrid HOI bugs, and plenty of other software experiences that were shall we say less than smooth.... but this is the first time that I legitimately feel that I got "taken" in buying a game.

I don't generally buy a lot of "high end"/graphic intensive software - my preferences tend more towards text-based sports sims (OOTP), strategy intensive map games (EU, HOI), etc. Once upon a time -- Civilization used to be in that class, too: a great strategy game for those of us that get no pleasure from "fastest mouse click wins" type games....

I feel like I just got deserted by a good friend -- after he picked my pocket for $50.

 

[King Flevance]

But come on.... Since you saw the need to post this "defending Firaxis/Sid/TakeTwo/whatever" thread -- you've obviously noticed that it's not just a few malcontents that are upset their old Tandy won't run what really does look it would be a very cutting edge game (if I could get to turn 2 without a freeze, CTD, or hard reboot).

LMAO. I loved the comment about the Tandy. I also dont have ill will towards those that can run it. However, the lewd comments aimed at the unfortunate are uncalled for. Same goes for the nasty comments aimed at the ones who can because your jealous. (Sometimes people are posting how happy they are, not gloating.) Some of these people have spent more hours trying to fix their game than alot have spent playing it. (That goes for addicts too.) I have between 28-30 hours of doing it now. Thats where I ran out of drivers to try, stuff like the popular PaK thing.
I have tried it all that I have seen, unfortunately I am not software literate. The guy that figured out the PaK thing and similar stuff seems like a genius to me. I am a hardware guy and right now my hardware is failing me so that leaves me looking up to these people and muttering prayers on the 80th game of CIV4 I am loading listening to that intro movie I thought was once cool but now hate. I appreciate anyone who gives me one more prayer, until now. Now, I sit in discussions and talk to people with the game working good about the game. Now is a good time to get real player tips I figure. I aint trying to fix it too much anymore unless something new comes I will try it but I have a feeling what I am waiting for is a patch.
This arguing is getting old though as one side says CIV4 sucks as the worst game in history while never really playing it and one side refusing to admit the release was poor. Of course, I dont offend easy and actually enjoy this to some extend. You peoples get me brain goin' on how to calm u down and see it from the other side and me likes it. I am sick.

 

[elderotter]

see, I don't get it. A new game comes out and there are problems - so? It is the way it works. I encountered the problems and fixed them. It was very simple - it didnt include buying new parts for my computer, it didnt involve trashing firaxis, Sid, the people at this forum who have a version working.
It involved setting the drivers back not forward 1 version. It also involved going into options when my graphics started to go weird and setting them down from the default of high to medium. My game works now...I am finding out I dont work so well as I cn't seem to win on warlord and am currently playin chieftain with aggressive set on.
It is so much easier to just quit and blame some one else. It is so easy to blame the people who made the game for not making it good enough. Well are you a qualified Gaming Programmer? Can you do a better job - trying to keep the game stable while putting in all the changes demanded(not asked for but demanded) from Civ3?
I think the game is awesome - I am still learning the subtle parts. Like should you actually worry about religion. How prepared militarily should you be and what does that entail. Taking cities seems to be VERY HARD now. In my first war I was using infantry against musketeers and I had to destroy all improvemants and roads around the city before I could even start to kill the musketeers in the city. Meantime their knights were looting my infrastructure 2 hits at a time. Lol this is a very complex game and it is very much easier to say this game s---s than to admit you aren't as good in your first couple of games as you were at Civ 3 after you had played for years.

 

[King Flevance]

It is so easy to blame the people who made the game for not making it good enough. Well are you a qualified Gaming Programmer? Can you do a better job

No I am not. And it isnt my job. LOL J/K man I had to. You have been pretty cool on the forums Elderotter. It was just to funny to not use this.

I agree the game is cool with alot of improvements and is also ALOT harder. I am glad you got it running after all that. Mine is kinda playable, although I do run into the meory leak when loading a game and go into instant 2 FPS after a load. So I just never keep my games. That really sucks cause I never get anywhere but I still get to play
As for the people claiming the game sucks because its harder now.... well, sorry but it is a strategy game. And the priority of the units messing up right now is probably high on first patch I would think. Or hoping anyways, the first patch will solve the problems of the graphic issues and some small but needed patches in gameplay. Maybe thats what they are doing at Firaxis right now. Nobody knows. I heard the Dominoes Pizza guy that delivered there last night was murdered because they thought he knew too much.

Edit: Woot this is post 69 for me

 

[Mr. Blonde]

elderotter
see, I don't get it. A new game comes out and there are problems - so? It is the way it works. I encountered the problems and fixed them. It was very simple - it didnt include buying new parts for my computer, it didnt involve trashing firaxis, Sid, the people at this forum who have a version working.
It involved setting the drivers back not forward 1 version. It also involved going into options when my graphics started to go weird and setting them down from the default of high to medium. My game works now...I am finding out I dont work so well as I cn't seem to win on warlord and am currently playin chieftain with aggressive set on.
It is so much easier to just quit and blame some one else. It is so easy to blame the people who made the game for not making it good enough. Well are you a qualified Gaming Programmer? Can you do a better job - trying to keep the game stable while putting in all the changes demanded(not asked for but demanded) from Civ3?
I think the game is awesome - I am still learning the subtle parts. Like should you actually worry about religion. How prepared militarily should you be and what does that entail. Taking cities seems to be VERY HARD now. In my first war I was using infantry against musketeers and I had to destroy all improvemants and roads around the city before I could even start to kill the musketeers in the city. Meantime their knights were looting my infrastructure 2 hits at a time. Lol this is a very complex game and it is very much easier to say this game s---s than to admit you aren't as good in your first couple of games as you were at Civ 3 after you had played for years.

1) Glad it worked for you, does this mean it will work for everyone encountering massive problems? No
I know 3 other people with computers within the specifications. They tried everyerthing suggested here which took them a day of work. Guess what: 2 are still encountering the bug where resources are not displayed correctly, 1 sees black sea tiles and extremely bright terrain. 3 out of 4 copies not working properly in my neighbourhood.

2) Graphic bugs for people well above the recommended specs, game crashes, rebooting when clicking the minimap, ect. Too many bugs for a finished product

3) We all have to be programmers to make comments on Firaxis
There are a lot of games coming out with eyecandy graphics which don´t have these problems - a rushed release is imo the most plausible explanation

Edit: I don´t have problems other than the computer crushing when I exit civ4 but I can live with that.

 

[King Flevance]

1)1 sees black sea tiles and extremely bright terrain.

Thats my issue too. Thats the first time I ever saw anyone with that same problem.

 

[zonk]

see, I don't get it. A new game comes out and there are problems - so? It is the way it works. I encountered the problems and fixed them. It was very simple - it didnt include buying new parts for my computer, it didnt involve trashing firaxis, Sid, the people at this forum who have a version working.

Like I said -- it's not even so much the bugs that bother me.... I experienced both the EU and HOI initial releases - which were probably the 2 most (non-Bill Gates category) buggy pieces of software I've ever seen. I made it through with help from the forums, a lot of patience, but most importantly -- because the developer/publisher spent a LOT of time and effort keeping folks in the loop about problems, and diligently patching.

It's early - so maybe that'll still be forthcoming from Firaxis/TakeTwo/whomever.

However -- none of that excuses the understatement of minimum and rec'ed specs. Let's face it -- it seems pretty clear a 64 meg vid card is insufficient for this game. That's fine -- so long as the product state such. It didn't here. I think THAT's the root of a lot of folks anger. I KNOW bugs happen. I happen to work for a company that builds a fair bit of software - so I also know that sales and marketing are always, always, always trying to push product to market before it's really "ready". Bugs are one thing - jury rigging the specs to cast a wider sales net is entirely another.

Sorry, but while I can put up with all manner of bugs -- being dishonest about system requirements is a line I don't think any company should cross...

 

[Libertarian]

thats funny, i just put the dvd in the drive...

DVD? The specs say that it's a CD. So now we have to get a DVD drive too?

 

[Libertarian]

see, I don't get it. A new game comes out and there are problems - so? It is the way it works.

No, Myst III had problems. There was a particular scene on its initial release that would hang like a skipping vinyl record. There was a misspelling in the journal that could mislead you clue-wise. And there was a puzzle that let you get through even with a certain incorrect solution.

Civ IV is a fricking disaster. Even people who manage to get it to play find numerous bugs along with memory leaks and crashes and stuttering and choppy sound and on and on and on.

Yes, the task to create it was Herculean. The programmers are gods. Sid is sinless and holy. But the installation issues alone are why Mac users laugh at PC users. I realize you don't care about non-techies who aren't familiar with Windows settings and drivers and all that crap, but I had not realized that Firaxis felt the same way.

There should be a new minimum requirement specified:

You must be a savvy Windows power user capable of tweaking your system.

And recommended:

Buy one of our developers' PCs. The game worked for them.

 

[doronron]

There should be a new minimum requirement specified:

You must be a savvy Windows power user capable of tweaking your system.

And recommended:

Buy one of our developers' PCs. The game worked for them.

Gee, Civ works right out of the box for me. Defragging your drive, spyware protection, and pruning the registry can all be done with easily available software. No tech experience required. These are things you should be doing to your computer, anyway. Like changing the oil in your car.