What to build on the very first turn?

[Seanirl]

As someone who's been playing Civ for years (but perhaps not very well) and Civ IV for a while, I still haven't figured out the best thing to queue up in the first and first few subsequent turns.

Settler and Worker seem to be out because they stop the city's growth, so Warrior? When is a good time to build your first worker? I'm always torn between letting it go another few turns and grow and starting the worker now.

You need workers for hooking up resources/improving and chop rushing, but not enough warriors means your settlers are going to be eaten by panthers

 

[Defiant47]

Worker is the first build almost always (exception is if you have fishing, seafood, lack of land resources, and a plains/hills/forest to work), hands down.

 

[Seanirl]

K. I'll try that. But how many workers should you build before your first Settler?

It seems these decisions make a hell of a lot of difference...

 

[frob2900]

K. I'll try that. But how many workers should you build before your first Settler?

It seems these decisions make a hell of a lot of difference...

Theres no fast rule. It changes from situation to situation. For example if you are imperialistic and have settled on a two hammer tile (plains hills etc.) it might be good to build a settler first.

But generally 1 worker is a good start. Research Bronze Working while the worker is being built then use the worker to chop another worker or a settler. Whip the last part and put the excess into a Warrior.

(If you started without mining then it can be good to build a warrior first and let the city grow to size 2. Then start building a worker)

But like I said, you really have to adapt to the leader/map/general situation.

 

[volfan37132]

I think most civers build a worker first. I build a work boat if the
situation allows, or a warrior first to grow the city to size two or
three before starting a worker. However, I think most other
people go worker first.

 

[Defiant47]

Worker first is advantageous because all three FOOD+PRODUCTION go to the construction of the worker. If you wait until you grow, you get another one; so instead of 3, you now have 4. That's not a big boost. However, if you use all 3 and quickly get a worker, you can get up to 6 faster than normal (tile improvements like farming corn for example). Mathematically, building a worker first become advantageous much faster than waiting.

 

[obsolete]

There are times where starting on a worker from the start takes X amount of turns. Yet waiting till you are at pop = 2, and then focusing on a worker will still take the same total of X amount of turns.

So both give you the worker at the same time, yet in one case you've doubled your pop count.

Though honestly you get a free pop count anyway from the city itself, so that can be a little misleading.

There are also some advantages to going for BW, and never building a worker until you revolt to slavery, then whipping the worker(s).

It should be remembered that while food & hammers go into worker production, you stall the city growth, and this is very detrimental to the growth and why always going for worker first is not ALWAYS the best choice.

 

[vale]

There are times where starting on a worker from the start takes X amount of turns. Yet waiting till you are at pop = 2, and then focusing on a worker will still take the same total of X amount of turns.

So both give you the worker at the same time, yet in one case you've doubled your pop count.

I really don't see how this is possible. The best case I've come up with for getting a worker out as fast as possible is unrestricted leaders Isabella of a civ that starts with mining with an oasis in the inner ring and at least one more oasis in the fat cross and no ability to work a 3 hammer tile from turn one. At least in marathon then, the worker comes out on turn 27 instead of turn 30 by growing to pop 2 while working one oasis and researching BW, switching to a worker at pop 2 while working both oasis and revolting to slavery and whipping the instant it is ready. If you had a plains hill forest in your fat cross then you could get the worker out on turn 26 just by building it first and working the 3 hammer tile but obviously that is not always available.

Mansa Musa can get a worker out one turn early if he has an oasis in his inner ring by growing while researching BW, switching to a worker as soon as he grows and then whipping it as soon as he can (turn 29 instead of 30). You are getting a material gain over worker first in this case since you got some hammers into some other project while growing and possibly got some turns of commerce from your second tile if you had one available but it is very minor.

I don't see any way that one can grow and get a worker out nearly as fast without whipping away the extra population to hurry production.

Any other leader loses too much time in anarchy, or too much time researching Bronze Working, or too much time getting enough hammers into the worker to whip or a combination of multiple of the above problems to make the worker appear faster or even at the same rate as worker first.

Net conclusion is that Mansa Musa on an oasis is the only really "common" situation that would make a non-worker first optimal if you wanted to get a worker as fast as possible.

 

[Percy]

You deserve your title =) Thank you for the analysis.

 

[Fredricko]

In general, building a worker first will always give much greater returns in the long run as long as it has something to do. This means either your starting techs and starting resources match up nicely or your research path will allow your worker to stay busy.

The problem with the two-pop analysis is that, even though you might be saving a few turns over the X amount of turns it takes to grow your city and build the worker, it is a limited analysis over a finite portion of the game. In reality, even if you save a few turns right away, this is offset by the increased amount of turns it takes to start making improvements. In addition, those improvements continue to provide extra food/commerce/production after they have 'paid back' for the extra turns to build the worker.

If you have seafood resources (especially with a financial leader) you may be better off building a work boat first and allowing your city to grow. Like many people have said, it really depends on your strategy and starting conditions.

 

[PericlesOfAthen]

Nobody mentioned that building a warrior or scout first can also have returns in terms of finding more villages and also having a better overall view of the map which is important in deciding first and second city locations. In general I do build worker first also but going warrior/scout first does have some advantages.

 

[sveint]

General starting rules:

1. Build a worker early, either right away or when the city reaches 2 population.
2. Settlers are slow to build and your city should have several improved tiles before building one.
3. Get either bronze working (if forests), animal husbandry(if needed) or archery early. You will need some sort of defense - decide early and find out if you have right resource.
4. Going for an early religion changes all of the above (no point in worker without improvement techs).

 

[Yeekim]

Worker first.
Possible exceptions are:
1) You have Fishing and Seafood, so you may start with Workboat and let your city grow.
2) You are on a Pangaea with few other civs and have Hunting. Then Scout might be more useful.
3) You have really horsehockey starting location with no visible resources in your BFC. Other than perhaps Calendar ones. In this case, it might be wise to let your city grow a bit first, build a Warrior or Scout, and time your worker with completion of Bronze Working (hopefully you have something to chop then at least)

NB! Expansive civs should pay attention to working high-hammer tiles while building worker. These give 150% return then.

NNB! Plan your research so that your Worker is not left to sit on his buttocks for a few hundred years.

 

[JujuLautre]

I would add as another exception: you don't have enough worker techs. Especially if you start with a leader with mysticism and look for an early religion.

This is always bad if you spend lots of turns creating a worker and having him sitting in the middle of nowhere, doing nothing

 

[Phrederick]

NB! Expansive civs should pay attention to working high-hammer tiles while building worker. These give 150% return then.

In BTS expansive gives +25%, which only comes into effect when you already have four hammers per turn. Unless you settled on a two hammer tile or have a forested plains hill, that may affect the analysis regarding growing to size two first.

Edit: Oops, sorry for the thread necromancy.

 

[petey]

Personally, I like building a Warrior first and then a Worker. It gives you more time to research some worker techs so that the guy isn't hanging around with nothing to do for a few turns and it also lets you have both Warriors out not only exploring, but also fighting animals to get the Woodsman upgrades before the barbarians start showing up.

Obviously, if I start with Agriculture and have a couple of Corn or something in the BFC, that's a different story, but 90% of the time, I'll put out a Warrior first.

 

[KMadCandy]

Nobody mentioned that building a warrior or scout first can also have returns in terms of finding more villages and also having a better overall view of the map which is important in deciding first and second city locations. In general I do build worker first also but going warrior/scout first does have some advantages.

depends on difficulty. highest levels, the AI will get more huts than you can ever dream about, and you need to get your explorers back to fogbust so early that sometimes even a hut or two is a pipedream. and you might get barbs in the hut...

I would add as another exception: you don't have enough worker techs. Especially if you start with a leader with mysticism and look for an early religion.

oh so very true. oh the starts i've had where i wish i could insta-change my leader to isabella and build workboats while teching my way to hydra glory /sigh.

i don't have a standard default opening. i'm sure i tend to favor "well, get pop to two beforehand" more than i ought to" but then again, i'm permanoob *giggle*.

 

[manu-fan]

I like a warrior first and letting grow to size 2 before getting a worker.

However, I will interrupt the warrior and to start the worker as soon as size 2 is reached.

Has anyone done the math? Assuming a 2F, 1H city start, with a floodplain (3F) or forested grassland (2F, 1H), how long it takes to get that first worker and how long to size 2 if you go worker first, or wait until size 2?

Cheers.

 

[Percy]

All the math that has ever been done has strongly favoured Worker First. But they all assume your worker has something to do, i think. And they don't assume going for Religion, or alternative game choices. It's just that it gives the best rate of development of your city.

 

[Bast]

I've found that if you start with Mining and if there's a hill in the BFC (there has to be), a worker first becomes a must.

BUT if you're Greece, fishing and hunting is not a good combination to get a worker first. I even try getting a second scout to really take advantage of the goody huts.