What to do here? This place is crazy!

[Trinity]

Here is the situation. I'm France.

France at war with England: Took all of the English petroleum reserves. Took Manchester and abandoned the city when an overwhelming stack(18) of infantry knocked on the door vs. 8 tanks.
RoP with Iroquois, Babylon, Zululand
Borders with: Iroquois, Babylon, Zululand, Rome (for now), Germany (one isolated city)

England at war with: Iroquois, Babylon, Germany, France.
Allied with Persia

Rome at war with: Babylon, Germany, Iroquois

Persia (what's left of it) at war with: Iroquois, Babylon, Germany
Allied with England, Zululand vs. Babylon, Iroquois

Babylon at war with: Persia, Rome, England, Zululand, Germany
Allied with Iroquois via MPP

Iroquois at war with: Persia, Rome, England, Germany, Zululand
Alled with Babylon via MPP

Germany at war with: Persia, England, Rome, Iroquois, Babylon
Allied with Zululand vs. Babylon

Zululand AFAIK (not on diplomatic screen) at war with: Babylon, Iroquois
Allied with Persia, Germany vs. Babylon, Iroquois

This world is nuts! I can't figure out who's on who's side in the big picture. We're on a huge map. There is no way in hell anyone will get a domination victory. I have this stinking feeling Babylon is going to schlep it's way to a cultural victory, although I'm gaining ground. Diplomatic victory? See my signature. With this many wars there will be no diplomatic victory.

Because I want to stay in a democracy, I can't form an alliance with the religious civs even though it appears we have more common enemies. They will stay at war forever, and if I reach a peace treaty when the war weariness is about to cause me to implode, it really pisses them off.

I figure Germany is about to declare war on me -- they're polite now, and have been annoyed or furious most of the game.

I don't know what to do. I'm stumped.

I've got 337 units (19 workers, 57 cavalry - great for soak off attacks, a few ships, 12 bombers, and the rest tanks and mech infantry), and that's about all my economy can handle. I finished the Hoover Dam, about to finish SETI, and start Apollo. I'm building a ton of research labs.

 

[Zeromus]

I don't know if I can help, but I felt the need to respond. So you are war with just the English, correct? And you have no MPP's with anyone? I would make peace with the English. A chaotic world like the one you are describing is the perfect time to catch up or pass everyone in wealth, science, wonders,etc. But you don't want to go the peaceful path? Well, then I would still make peace with the English. A democracy in peace is a powerhouse for putting out units and commerce when your people aren't unhappy about a war. Use this as a little break to further develop your technology and build up units. Go for Synthetic Fibers and mass build modern armor.

My brother was going for a domination victory, but the year was 1980 and despite having the largest land mass, the world was going to take a long time to conquer. The other nations were well developed and it looked like the war when started would last to long to win in time. However, he tried anyway, doing what I mentioned above about mass building modern armor under a peaceful democracy. He attacked in 1995, after building a large force of armor. In one turn, he took half of the Persian empire which was the second largest nation after his own having about 30 or so cities. To make a short story even shorter he won a domination victory around 2020 A.D. after having blitzkrieged (is that a word?) the world. The key to this was the enemy's own railroad system and the modern armor's potential to attack three times in one turn.

that's about it. and if you can't win, get out your guns :rocket2: and take as many units,cities, civs with you as you can!

sorry i couldn't be of more help.

 

[Trinity]

Yes, the situation in this world is rather fluid, another word for chaotic. I'd like to make peace with Britain, if they will acknowledge my emmisary. Britain attacked me the turn Persia suckered them into an MPP, then Persia settles with me the next turn.

No. I don't have any MPPs. I made sure I didn't get into any. Nor am I allied with anyone against anyone else. I'll do trade embargos and that's it. But with the way the world is, why even bother with those. I want to get a space victory if possible.

Is it worth building new Modern Armor, or simply upgrade my 78 tanks? I figure eventually to decommission the Cavalry and replace with either Modern Armor or ICBMs, or a combination of the two.

I figure if the game goes to the point where Babylon is going to win a cultural victory (they are 4:3) against me. The only way I can do them any damage is by way of nuclear attack. They are way too far away for me to launch and support an invasion. My border with them is on one of their extended regions.

Perhaps settle with England, sell them oil, sell everyone everything. And make tons of money. Rush build improvements. BTW, I make up words all the time.

 

[Zouave]

All that is true. But I wish I knew how big Germany is as they are likely to declare war, although they are already at war with others. Sounds like a real mess. To give an accurate evaluation I'd have to know the capabilities and strengths of each civ.

Yes, try to find a way to let others fight while you build up your infrastructure.

 

[Black Waltz]

Maybe you could post the save game so people can have a look and give you an accurate evaluation?

 

[Trinity]

At the rate it's going if everyone has nukes, the world will be a cinder in short order.

Germany isn't that powerful militarily -- yet. They have a lot of area and cities, but they didn't get a viable trade route until 50 years ago. Most of their strength is cultural. They were way behind, and so far away I couldn't nail them when they were real weak. Same with Rome.

Nation rankings are:

France: 1700 pts (Pyramids, Sun Tzu's, Smiths, Wall Street, Iron Works, Universal Sufferage, Sistine Chapel, Hoover Dam)
Iroquois: 1475
Babylon: 1200
Rome: 1100
Germany: 1050
Persia: 1000 (I guess all those points for Great Wall, and JS Bach's cathedral which I now own)
England: 950
Zululand: 850 (and coming on strong)

I got all the wonders by purposely building up four 25 shield city early on. After factories, they produced 50 shields before the Hoover Dam. None wasted. Something is under Marseilles. The city square produces 5 shields. It isn't aluminum. Uranium?

 

[Zeromus]

A space victory? Then that makes things even easier IMO. It seems that your only problems then would be to end the war with the Brits and Babylon's culture. Those could be like your objectives, or something.

1) End the war with England. Use your tanks. Take a city or two, but more importantly, stack an overwhelming force next to one of their cities. That seems to strike fear into them, leading to better deals too.

2) Try to determine roughly how long it will be before Babylon's and your culture reach a 2:1 ratio (2 being Babylon). If you can build the spaceship before that happens then fine. If not... either make a determined attempt to build culture buildings throughout your empire (this probably want help much though ) or, like you said, nuke the hell outta them. Then, make a last-ditch effort to build the spaceship while defending your nation from the brutal war that will ensue. Hopefully, the enemy will target your border cities with nukes long enough to give your core cities the time to build the spaceship.

I believe strongly that if you can pull these two things off, then you have a secured victory. But if you have to fight the Babylonians (sounds unavoidable) and they target your core cities, then I don't know. The guys above made a good suggestion; I would like to see this madhouse of a game. It would give me something to do . Also, I think games like this are the most fun. A struggle like this makes the game memorable. If you win or lose.

 

[Trinity]

Yes this one is memorable. Much more so than my last one. BTW, I'm slowly creeping up against Babylon on culture. They were 3:1 in 1000 AD. Now 4:3 in 1936. I started making a push about 300 years ago to build cathedrals, universities, and stuff like that. I've never gone to war mobilization. Hammurabi and Hiawatha did. It's going to be a close one.

I intend to make peace with England. I just can't get enough troops to their mainland to do anything. And they can't get any to me. They land and I've got 20 tanks, and 24 mech infantry waiting, in addition to the 50 mech infantry garrisons. My shield producers are have a pretty nice spread. I built my Forbidden Palace in the north, and Paris is in the south. High shield producers all around them. Babylon will need about 15 nukes to do me in but they don't have steel yet (I took their coal in the last war). Militarily they're pretty backward. The Iroquois are more of a threat.

Now for the Twilight Zone scenario. Hmmm. Makes me wonder. Is our world someone else's Civ IV game? And what if our Civ III games are real worlds for our 1's and 0's? Sorry for the length here, but I couldn't resist. This is a typical daily news report for the past 75 years.

"In the news tonight. The siege of Persepolis ended today with a surrender of Persian forces after massive strikes by French bombers nearly leveled the city. By some miracle, JS Bach's Cathedral and the Great Wall were spared. Estimates indicate Persian casualties totaled about 240,000 military and about 600,000 civilians. 6 French armor divisions brutally put down the remaining pockets of resistance. Human rights violations are suspected. The International Red Cross has reports from Persian locals that the French deliberately starved the city to put down the resistance.

"Shortly thereafter, Persian leader Xerses signed a peace treaty with French President Joan d'Arc. No sooner than the ink was drying on the page, England entered the war on the side of the Persians and declared war against us.

"Meanwhile Iroquois and Babylonian forces destroyed Sidon. Reports of casualties are sketchy, but are estimated in the millions.

"Zulu infantry attacked the Babylonian city of New Antioch, but the attack was repulsed by Iroquois infantry."

"On the northern front, in retaliation for the declaration of war, French cavalry easily took Exeter and Berwick in the war against the British. French mechanized infantry moved in to garrison the cities. French defense department officials think this may have completely cut the flow of English oil, and resulted in the destruction of the RAF.

"The English attemped to land 16 divisions on the French mainland near Sparta, but took heavy damage in bombing runs. The French battleship, Louis XIV was lost, but a last ditch heroic attack by a French transport vessel and the Submarine Amiens sank the invasion transports. President d'Arc summoned both commanders to Paris for commendations.

"General Napoleon and Defense Secretary Cardinal Richelieu will appear on Lawrence Roi Live at 6:00 and 9:00 pm, Paris Daylight Time. Anne?

"There were reports of battles between Iroquois, Roman, British,and German forces near the French city of New Centralia. We can't figure out who is fighting on who's side. Reports indicate one English Rifle division was lost. Things look pretty desperate for the British."

"German forces engaged the English near London, but we have no reports from the field. Military experts believe losses on both sides were high.

"Demonstrators against the war with Persia in Chartres complained about food shortages, but when news of the British declaration of war reached them, they put their protest signs down and started chanting 'Vive La France!' Food supplies quicky resumed normal flow. Jacques?

"In other news, Rheims beat Paris 3-2 bringing them to within 1/2 game of Chartres. Grenoble lost to Avignon 1-0, and Rouen beat Marseilles 2-0. Highlights at 11:00."

"This is CNN"

 

[Zouave]

Oh. Let me add that IF SOMEONE STARTS WINNING you have a problem as that is a great way to have them increase their power.

So you want them to fight - but without one side gaining a clear victory. Help the smaller civs with whatever you can to keep a balance.

 

[Trinity]

I could easily help Britain. They're back to the industrial age. No oil. I have 6 oil resources, but they have a trade embargo against me. I also have 5 aluminum resources. [dance] And I'm guessing due to higher than normal shield and gold outputs on a couple of forest and mountain tiles that I have more than one source of uranium. No one gets these in trade.

Everyone who can use my help has a trade embargo against me. They won't trade techs for anything unless I simply give them to them.

Babylon is a shell of a nation. No money for trading. Don't even have Steel yet, but they lead 4:3 over me culturally. Everyone else is either 1:1 or 1:2 in culture.

The Iroquois are very much overextended. I stopped just short of that. It is very difficult to defend the northern continent. Everyone is at war with each other except me. I'm at peace with everyone for the moment. Babylon just signed a peace treaty with what is left of Persia.

I've got Space now, and started Apollo. I'm researching Fission, then Ecology --> Synthetic Fibers. Then go for SDI. Will then replace all cavalry with modern armor, and upgrade tanks as possible to modern armor, and build a nuclear arsenal. If someone starts winning at that point, I'll just nuke 'em.

 

[Zeromus]

Well then everything looks like it's going okay. Yes, if the ai civs all make peace with each other, then that will speed up their cultural and scientific progress, but if you keep a good pace up then it will be too little, too late.

Dumb bastards also have a tendency to make peace, and then jump right back in the fray. If one actually wipes out a civ, though, that's different. Their power will increase.

 

[Trinity]

I'm at a point where every city I add has 95% corruption or higher.

I just noticed. Babylon made peace with Persia. The Iroquois didn't. Babylon has an MPP with the Iroquois. They should get drawn back into the fray. This is going to get very interesting.

Yes if one nation wipes out another, their power will increase, but I seriously doubt that will happen. If it does, nukes will fly. I should be able to level about 25 cities by the time they even get one. So what if the world hates me even more. Everyone is furious now. I've got six 60+ shield producers now, and will have even more. It takes me only 2 turns to crank out cruise missiles, mech infantry, and tanks. I think 2 turns is the minimum. How long for nukes? I don't know yet. I got lucky on terrain. Cities in a plains tile, 3-5 hill tiles, 2 flood plains (irrigated for more food), and everything else dedicated to shields.

I love it when a civ has a trade embargo against you and approaches you for a MPP. You take the MPP and they keep the trade embargo against you. So now I've learned to say, "Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. At this time."