What to do if you don't get copper/iron?

[malfuriouspete]

Had an issue like this, played a recent game as the mongols where I didn't get any copper or iron once researched.. even had a city surrounded by mountains and nothing.. luckily I had horses so I could get their special unit.

Of course my rivals all had access and my "friend" to the north, Louis decided to help himself to my lands. I couldn't build axemen or swordsmen and in turn no pikemen, crossbowmen or macemen either.. so I had to rely on the horse archers and catapults(trebs) for a defensive force (longbow men in the cities for defense.. perhaps I should have attacked with these). Unfortunately, Louis attacked with lots of spearmen so I was basically screwed

attacked by another civ (Cyrus) who also had access to these metals and I basically threw in the towel as he also had war elephants which get the bonus to mounted units. I think I made it as far as the gunpowder tech to train muskets but at the point I couldn't build them fast enough to replace my loses. Louis even accepted peace at times but broke it as soon as the 10 turn limit was up

Seemed like everything conspired against me in that game, but it was actually kinda fun playing a desperate empire

 

[Funky]

Having no metal makes things harder, but it's not really much of a problem, especially not when you have keshiks at your disposal. They are a great unit to rush with. With the Mongols you should be prioritizing horseback riding anyway. Found a second city, build granary, barracks and ger in both cities, and start producing/whipping hordes of keshiks (or at least enough to take out a neighbour or two). Don't wait to form a stack, instead DoW as soon as you have 2-3 keshiks at the enemy borders and use your maneuverability to pillage the AI's metal resource(s). Meanwhile new keshiks should have arrived, and you can take out the enemy cities.

 

[Kallikrates]

It seems you waited too long to use your Keshiks if you have to face longbows and elephants. With a horse-based UU I would almost always go for AH as quickly as possible.

(If I lack horses when playing a civ with an early horse-based UU I'am be really pissed and often abort the game. But I usually get horses close enough for the second or 3rd city to claim the resource whereas I seem to lack copper in every other game (iron seems far more common). With "lack" I do not mean that the resource is outside th BFC of the capital, but that it is either in or beyond enemy territory or at least too far for sensible placements of the 2nd or 3rd city.

Of course, Immortal and War Chariot are faster and cheaper (by far my favorites for "early rushes"), but if you lack copper as Mongols or Carthaginians you can go for HBR quickly, pillage the enemies copper mines, if necessary and take him out before longbows or elephants come into play at all

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Either rush with horse units, or wait until rifling. You *can* win using longbows + siege if you can deny them knights, but it's too much effort usually. No matter what resources you have or don't have, as long as you have some food you can draft a ton of rifles.

 

[AdamCrock]

Screwed unitll rifles though before that time it is accurate to say that You will aquire those resources via trade or war anyway.

edit: You get bonus screw points if You're isolated !

 

[malfuriouspete]

agreed on all points, I obviously didn't go to war soon enough once I saw copper was not attainable within my borders, and definitely once iron wasn't there either.. live and learn I guess. Probably need to be more agressive if I lack a specific resource.

 

[malfuriouspete]

and I had to search for the commonly used civ4 acronyms to figure out what UU, HBS, etc meant, haha.. what a noob

 

[lymond]

OP, if you are Mongols and have horses then that is all you need, pretty much on any level. I assume you are playing a relatively low level, so Keshiks will run the map. Talking about Keshiks, cats and LBs makes no sense. You should be running Keshiks only non-stop at a fairly decent BC date, which on Noble or thereabouts will pretty much take out a Pangaea map in no time. You'll get your metals soon enough, but don't need them. If you are playing higher levels just lower your expectations a bit on how many AIs you take out with Keshiks. But bottom line is Keshiks will net you much more land and much more resources early. They are one of the upper echelon UUs.

The no terrain movement penalty really offers some nice tactics and surprise attacks, plus easy worker stealing, and the Ger just adds to the awesomeness.

 

[lymond]

Also, do let us know the difficulty you currently play at now and the maps. Spend more time on the Strategy & Tips forum as opposed to this one, if you really want to learn the game.

 

[malfuriouspete]

@lymond, will do.. suggest that this post can even be moved (if possible) to the strategy forum.

I was playing on Noble - terra map.

and I can definitely see that not having access to the metals isn't the end of the world, just need to adjust my play to take advantage of what I have with a given Civ. I generally don't play with a rush tactic in mind, ususally try to out research my rivals until I can build infantry to shoot their swordsmen but I guess that can't always be the case

 

[Lord Silverkey]

Usually in the games that I don't have access to metal I "turtle" with loads of archers and focus on tech+economy+wonders until a later time in the game where I might revise my strategy. (such as getting access to resources via colonies or being able to produce military units that don't need metals such as gunpowder units)

 

[Funky]

I generally don't play with a rush tactic in mind, ususally try to out research my rivals until I can build infantry to shoot their swordsmen

That's so.... unmongolian.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Screwed unitll rifles though before that time it is accurate to say that You will aquire those resources via trade or war anyway.

edit: You get bonus screw points if You're isolated !

Not much use for early strategics in that situation, aside from iron. In isolation all of your fights are won with warriors and work boats usually.

agreed on all points, I obviously didn't go to war soon enough once I saw copper was not attainable within my borders, and definitely once iron wasn't there either.. live and learn I guess. Probably need to be more agressive if I lack a specific resource.

Keshik is one of the better UUs in the game. Why would metal be a priority when playing Mongolia? You had your #1 resource from the start...

On your settings, you could literally win the entire map with nothing but keshiks, and that will continue to be true for a couple more difficulties.

 

[malfuriouspete]

Keshik is one of the better UUs in the game. Why would metal be a priority when playing Mongolia? You had your #1 resource from the start...

On your settings, you could literally win the entire map with nothing but keshiks, and that will continue to be true for a couple more difficulties.

Old habits hard to break I guess.. obviously had no clue how to play as mongolia, i.e I was trying to stick to my old tactics where I'd very rarely use horse units. And I really didn't appreciate the effectiveness of the Keshik.. forgiveness please!

 

[lindsay40k]

OP, if you are Mongols and have horses then that is all you need, pretty much on any level. I assume you are playing a relatively low level, so Keshiks will run the map. Talking about Keshiks, cats and LBs makes no sense. You should be running Keshiks only non-stop at a fairly decent BC date, which on Noble or thereabouts will pretty much take out a Pangaea map in no time. You'll get your metals soon enough, but don't need them. If you are playing higher levels just lower your expectations a bit on how many AIs you take out with Keshiks. But bottom line is Keshiks will net you much more land and much more resources early. They are one of the upper echelon UUs.

The no terrain movement penalty really offers some nice tactics and surprise attacks, plus easy worker stealing, and the Ger just adds to the awesomeness.

I'm generally a builder by nature and, though Hannibal's my favourite, I've never really cracked HA rushing. Until now. I just tried this as Genghis - building Stonehenge and Oracling CoL to make use of a big food surplus and fund my empire - and vassaled my last rival in 1360. These things are scary!

 

[Angst]

Old habits hard to break I guess.. obviously had no clue how to play as mongolia, i.e I was trying to stick to my old tactics where I'd very rarely use horse units. And I really didn't appreciate the effectiveness of the Keshik.. forgiveness please!

You are a very pleasant person. I hope you're having fun with your game

 

[malfuriouspete]

having too much fun.. builder by nature, warmonger if attacked first

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Even stock horse archers are very good. Keshiks have material improvements over them (FS vs melee, rarely does lack of immunity factor, terrain movement is ridiculous), but you can easily wipe a continent with HA up through emperor and do serious damage even on immortal.

 

[AW Arcaeca]

I would have rushed the longbowmen, as I find keshiks are much more suited to offense.