What We Must Need In Civ 5

[Ahovking]

You do realize civ4 has one of the most robust and in depth AIs of any strategy game right?

What you people want is impossible, it takes a friggin supercomputer to get cognitive abilities that aproaches those of most insects. And when we finally get to the point where computers can "think" on the level of even the dumbest human strategically; the machines doing so will not be being designed for video games.

Yes i Know but i wish thay would just work togther better
I got New ideas
1: Alow city or grops of citys declare independent from you and have a colour not just black but like dark red or light red so A Big Nation Can Brake Up Like the USSR did in 1991. and the NEW Indopendent notions wont be called Barbarian but if thay declare independent from russia thier name of the nation could be the name of the independent nation capital or a radom russian Name. and let them have a Economy they in a new sence a new civ to trade with and talk with.

2: A 300% Better tech tree. now is a tree there for if you go up one branch you cant go up the secend branch(if you get what i mean).

 

[EsaKo]

Really? We absolutely need 9 to 11 new white-as-the-driven-snow (thank you Yahtzee) civs, many (or even most) of which have never really been significant international players? When we have 1 civ that represents around 1,000 various Native American tribes and one leader for a gigantic, multi-ethnic and culturally diverse region that is lumped into the hugely generic civ of "Arabia"? All right...

I sort of agree with this - as any civ can be modified in the game, what's the point of having them included for people that aren't even slightly interested?

On the other hand, if you seek only important powers, we should drop Native America completely. They never were a powerful empire, apart from the Inca, Aztec and Maya. If new civilizations are what we want...

Arabia is a too large grouping - split it into at least two civilizations. Berbers, for example, could be a civ (the Almoravid empire was powerful). That's about the only way to make more civs anymore - split the existing ones into smaller pieces or take smaller ones in. In my opinion, from the OP's list, the following could really be included, in order of preference:

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Finland as the Kalmar Union

Switzerland (they're an economic powerhouse, but it's hard to call them an empire... what about a world wonder "Swiss banks" instead?)

 

[EsaKo]

Yes i Know but i wish thay would just work togther better
I got New ideas
1: Alow city or grops of citys declare independent from you and have a colour not just black but like dark red or light red so A Big Nation Can Brake Up Like the USSR did in 1991. and the NEW Indopendent notions wont be called Barbarian but if thay declare independent from russia thier name of the nation could be the name of the independent nation capital or a radom russian Name. and let them have a Economy they in a new sence a new civ to trade with and talk with.

2: A 300% Better tech tree. now is a tree there for if you go up one branch you cant go up the secend branch(if you get what i mean).

1. The Legends of Revolution unofficial expansion already supports revolutions and balkanizations.

2. I don't get what you mean...?

 

[phungus420]

1. The Legends of Revolution unofficial expansion already supports revolutions and balkanizations.

2. I don't get what you mean...?

Thanks for the plug, I definitely appreciate it Legends of Revolution is a mod designed for anyone that wants something that looks and plays professionally, like something that could have come out of fireaxis's kitchen, if there had been interest in making a new expansion pack. That's it's design phillosophy and that's how it plays.

However that's not what this user wants. He's asking for 300% moar, and lots moar civs, and moar, and moar. For that, there is only one mod that can satisfy. He should try out Rise of Mankind

 

[EsaKo]

Thanks for the plug, I definitely appreciate it Legends of Revolution is a mod designed for anyone that wants something that looks and plays professionally, like something that could have come out of fireaxis's kitchen, if there had been interest in making a new expansion pack. That's it's design phillosophy and that's how it plays.

However that's not what this user wants. He's asking for 300% moar, and lots moar civs, and moar, and moar. For that, there is only one mod that can satisfy. He should try out Rise of Mankind

Read it again. He wants a 300% BETTER tech tree, not 300% MOAR tech tree, although I don't understand what he doesn't like about it. Although there are certain similarities. I've sometimes wondered why the player doesn't have to discover fire at all, or Loincloths (allows building Warriors).

 

[Wodan]

Personally, I'd rather have a more wide open tech tree. The tree we have currently mirrors history and forces each game to be more or less like it happened in real life.

 

[EsaKo]

Personally, I'd rather have a more wide open tech tree. The tree we have currently mirrors history and forces each game to be more or less like it happened in real life.

This would be very hard to implement, as the tech tree has to make sense. I've been pondering about some discoveries in real life though. For example, the Steam Ball aka Aeolipile aka Hero Engine. It was considered to be a neat toy with little practical use when it was first created, but it was a steam powered device. Had Hero or anyone else realized the potential of steam engines, Greeks would've taken the Mediterranian with their fleet of ironclads.

 

[Ahovking]

1. The Legends of Revolution unofficial expansion already supports revolutions and balkanizations.

2. I don't get what you mean...?

Right i found this which explain

Right this is an idea that would increase diversity between civs, encourage tech and resource trading, and force a change in what i find to be a sometimes limiting idea of unique units and buildings. It could also create a new use for leader traits.

ok. Just say you're researching a tech. you're researching archery. except it isn't called archery, it's called, say, "projectile weapons". you finish researching it, and it unlocks archers. But the next time you play, it unlocks Slingers. The time after that, Javelin throwers.

I'm not sure what to call this, but it's the idea that you can research a technology, without being sure of what the product of that research will be.

That's the idea at it's most basic. But say you get archers, good for defending cities, but Asoka get javelins, good against axemen. You could trade archery between each other, and learn how to build the other unit.
In the same way, Bronze working could give you spearmen, or Axemen, or broad swordsmen. but if you want longswordsman from Iron working, you'd need to trade for it if you didn't research it first up.
Traits could influence how what type of whatever you get.
In addition. You research animal husbandry and reveal horses, say. Julius researches it, and finds a nice bunch of Camels in his little desert. seeee?
You could trade the techs, or just trade the resource. actually thats a bad example for resource trading, but you could imagine the same with luxuries or something.

 

[EsaKo]

Right i found this which explain

Right this is an idea that would increase diversity between civs, encourage tech and resource trading, and force a change in what i find to be a sometimes limiting idea of unique units and buildings. It could also create a new use for leader traits.

ok. Just say you're researching a tech. you're researching archery. except it isn't called archery, it's called, say, "projectile weapons". you finish researching it, and it unlocks archers. But the next time you play, it unlocks Slingers. The time after that, Javelin throwers.

I'm not sure what to call this, but it's the idea that you can research a technology, without being sure of what the product of that research will be.

That's the idea at it's most basic. But say you get archers, good for defending cities, but Asoka get javelins, good against axemen. You could trade archery between each other, and learn how to build the other unit.
In the same way, Bronze working could give you spearmen, or Axemen, or broad swordsmen. but if you want longswordsman from Iron working, you'd need to trade for it if you didn't research it first up.
Traits could influence how what type of whatever you get.
In addition. You research animal husbandry and reveal horses, say. Julius researches it, and finds a nice bunch of Camels in his little desert. seeee?
You could trade the techs, or just trade the resource. actually thats a bad example for resource trading, but you could imagine the same with luxuries or something.

I think the idea is good but like every idea, it may need some refinement before it'll work properly as a gameplay element. It would certainly remove some of the boredom with standard units.

Also, it kinda reminds me an idea of my own I had some time ago - why fixed units, like axemen? Why not customizable units, like giving them that good vs. melee axe and a light buckler that doesn't hinder it's use? Or choosing between a short spear that has higher combat strength and a long one that has a high bonus vs cavalry? Perhaps it would just result in there being one "ultimate" combo, while adding to micromanagement, but I play around with the idea every once in a while.

 

[Jamerz]

Rise of Mankind/A New Dawn seem to be pointing the way for a Civ5 development path. I wonder if any of Sid's team have installed these mods?

 

[Ahovking]

I think the idea is good but like every idea, it may need some refinement before it'll work properly as a gameplay element. It would certainly remove some of the boredom with standard units.

Also, it kinda reminds me an idea of my own I had some time ago - why fixed units, like axemen? Why not customizable units, like giving them that good vs. melee axe and a light buckler that doesn't hinder it's use? Or choosing between a short spear that has higher combat strength and a long one that has a high bonus vs cavalry? Perhaps it would just result in there being one "ultimate" combo, while adding to micromanagement, but I play around with the idea every once in a while.

Like i said i found it some where and wrote it down so who know it could be your idea

 

[phungus420]

Rise of Mankind/A New Dawn seem to be pointing the way for a Civ5 development path. I wonder if any of Sid's team have installed these mods?

I'm sure many devs at firaxis have played RoM, just as many have played FFH2. Your assessment however is way off base.

First nearly all the novel concepts and gameplay improvements in RoM are not intrisic to RoM, they are ported over from the RevolutionDCM gamecore. Secondly the majority of civ4 players would find RoM far too esoteric and complex to make it commercially viable. Due to it's excess complexicity, and stability issues I myself find it unplayable.

What RoM is, is a modpack that is geared toward users who are looking for a massive content driven game, not for those interested in concrete and concise strategy game. If firaxis went the way of RoM, Civ's development would parallel that of the Flight Simulator.

Now don't get me wrong, I think RoM is a great mod, for what it is (and it's why I recommend it to a user a couple posts above, because I think that user would enjoy it). It's also the second most popular modpack available for civ4, as there is quite a bit of demand for a huge MEGA-modpack. But RoM fanboys fail to realize that this isn't what the majority of civ players are looking for, most of us want a concise and professionally built game, and demand one that is stable. In the market place those two considerations are straight up essential. Reviewers and consumers are not going to respond very well to a product they pay for that crashes on them, and has a bunch of units that overlap, as well as a tech tree that's so overbuilt it's 5 times the size of BtS's. Such a design is only viable, and in fact excels, as a free publicly available modpack for hard core civ fans that want 5 times the tech and unit choices, and don't mind a crash here or there breaking up their gaming.

 

[DMOC]

1. An option not to have global warming
2. Being able to delete savefiles ingame

The Civ4 AI we have is fine, it's much better than 99.9% of people could make it anyway.

 

[Countmonte8242]

Whatever it takes to make the modern era fun once again. I want this in the base game, not from a mod. The entire ending of a game should not be such a predetermined chore. For this to happen, more might have to come from less.

 

[HistoryFan]

What I see that is truly odd is resources starting off, where they're not native. Horses where not originally in Europe or the Americas, or Africa. Bananas where not originally in Africa, etc.
I'd like for resources to spread, like if you trade for food/animal resource A for 10 turns, after that ten turns is up the resource should appear in your lands. Because that's how it happened. Horses where native to Central Asia, now they're everywhere because humans brought them everywhere. Same with many, many staple crops and other beasts of burden.

Also I'd like to have Great Merchants be able to establish major trade routes. If you send them half way across the continent into another civ's capital you should have the option to "establish trade route" and give ti a boast like plus 200% for being founded by a great merchant... I really think majot trade routes NEED to be a part of the game. There is no Mali if there is no Saharan caravan trade. There is no Carthage, Rome, Phoenicia, or Greece if there is no Meditererrean. No reason to expand to the new world if not for the Atlantic trade zone...

See what I'm saying? We're content with the game we have now. which, by the way, is GREAT. But, in this day and age Civ 5 should be so much better.

Your resources should determine the available techs to research. I wanna see city-states. Not barbarians but interactive non-playable random cities that act as a small civ. Well no actually, not random. These cities should pop up in major trade locations, near a river, etc.

I'd like to see navy FIXED. There should be way more early game naval units. Plain and simple. Also they should have a bigger impact. Why is there no Junk or Dhow naval unit? Those two naval units are two of the most important in the history of maritime warfare/trade.

How about reasons to go to war? It seems to me that the AI just decides one day, hey I'm gonna attack you. Maybe they want a certain city, like a holy city; or maybe it's in prime real estate or chalk full of wonders. Once they take this city they should stop the war, not continue to fight after achieving what they wanted to. It seems like now the AI goes to war just to take everything you've got, but nothing in particular.


Also, you should be able to play how games in one era, which everyone of your choosing. Just have all of the techs for that age and once they've all been researched you should just research improvements for your units. Like all naval units get a certain bonus once built, etc.

 

[the343danny]

I'm sure many devs at firaxis have played RoM, just as many have played FFH2. Your assessment however is way off base.

First nearly all the novel concepts and gameplay improvements in RoM are not intrisic to RoM, they are ported over from the RevolutionDCM gamecore. Secondly the majority of civ4 players would find RoM far too esoteric and complex to make it commercially viable. Due to it's excess complexicity, and stability issues I myself find it unplayable.

I think he is talking about New Dawn and simply said RoM/New Dawn to point out that it is a RoM submod. New Dawn might add a load of buildings, but I think he was talking about the concepts of it, like the advanced diplomacy, and the multiple production mod incorporated in it, as well as all the other features that arent just new buildings.

Back to the topic: IMO we cant really ask for new content, because those things can just be added to Civ 4 via mods. We should be looking for new concepts features, in order to make Civ 5 a new game.

I think a new civ will need better diplomacy, like a meeting with more than one civ, to discuss politics (ie the congress in Rhye's). The AI should also take in account the need for balance of power, so nobody cant really steamroll his way to a domination. A less consistent relationship will help as well, so who your allies 50 turns from now will be less predictable (this will make for some interesting world war scenarios I think).

Another thing that will be cool is the ability to siege. Medieval wars become really stupid with longbows being defensive monsters, so a way to counter that, and to incorporate reality, the ability to besiege a city and starve them out will be great. And also, better combat system would be nice.

Something Ive always wanted was a resource accumulation system. I found it a bit odd that all I needed ever was only 1 of every resource, and that my massive production empire can build all the battleships I need from the oil coming from that one little oil well in the bottom of my continent. Also, this will let the game have units that are far superior to another unit in the same era, while still keeping the need for cheap expendables. An example would be the medieval armies, which couldnt be comprised of purely armor clad knights but had to be accompanied by masses of lesser conscripts due to resource limitations

One last thing I would want to add from all the ideas I have is to make it so that not all grassland tiles have 2 food etc...

 

[bestrfcplayer]

Why do we have soooooo many Civ 5 threads? We all know that it's not gonna happen

 

[Wodan]

This would be very hard to implement, as the tech tree has to make sense.

1) Many good things in life are difficult. So?
2) Why does difficult = make sense? They're unrelated.

In point of fact, the current tech tree does NOT make a whole lot of sense. Why is A a prereq for B? Most of the time the answer is "no reason, really, except that's about when it happened in real life".

 

[Bushface]

1. Give aircraft and artillery the ability to actually kill, not just damage.
2. Bring back Caravans, or some other means of transferring food and production between cities.
3. Allow irrigation of deserts, given (say) Electricity.
4. Allow Gunships to fly across water tiles, and to attack across rivers with no penalty.
5. Allow Spies some kind of promotions, based on mission successes (and their difficulty).
6. More resources, such as Cabbage (representing all green vegetables), Rubber, etc.
7. More techs, such as Weaving, Glass, and Concrete. And maybe some techs which improve the benefits from suitable buildings (Antiseptics, anaesthetics, and antibiotics for more health from Hospitals, for example)
8. More buildings, such as Tannery, Fabric Mill, Sewage Works.
9. The ability to build Watermills on both sides of a river, and preferably on the same tile as a Farm - after all, how much land does a Watermill occupy ?
10. Better diplomacy, especially as regards the harbouring of old grudges. It's only 64 years since WWII ended, and the wartime Allies are now quite friendly with their then adversaries, whereas in Civ4 the penalty for "you stopped trading with us" can persist for millennia.
11. Allow each city to devote some part of its income to the city's own needs rather than being controlled for the whole civ. The city treasury could then be used to pay for more local research or production, letting your high-commerce city get its university quicker and then really pump out the research.
12. Allow a city's production to be split; building and training could then be in progress simultaneously, or perhaps train two units at the same time.
13. Scientific Method may make monasteries obsolete, but should surely give at least a 5% boost to research civ-wide. And a 10% boost from Computers. Nor would it be unreasonable for Laboratories to become available with SciMeth.
14. In a big city, say size 20+, allow certain buildings to be duplicated. Lots of research from two universities, lots of production from two factories, but definitely not two granaries or courthouses.
15. Rename the Forbidden Palace to Government Centre and allow one of these for each 8 or so cities.

I also like the ides of being able to swap civs in mid-game, though perhaps this should be limited to not swapping to a civ which is well ahead of whatever civ you're now controlling.

 

[killmeplease]

some techs which improve the benefits from suitable buildings (Antiseptics, anaesthetics, and antibiotics for more health from Hospitals, for example)

i thought of this idea too
i also think such techs as radio, computers, etc, should decrease city maintenance (radio for distance, writing, computers - for number of cities)