What would you cut?

[Kael]

Everyone has things they would love to add to the game. But the best way to improve a game as big as FfH is to remove the pieces that aren't worth the complexity they add.

What would you guys remove?

 

[westamastaflash]

A few suggestions on the problem of too many buildings.

Combine Archery Range and Bowyers into one building.
Combine Mage Guild and Library into one building available with writing (leave adepts in KOTE though).
Combine Tavern and Inn into one building.

Just a few suggestions.

 

[Eddiit]

As counter-productive as this may sound I don't feel FFH really needs to cut anything. Maaaaybe merge summoning and sorcery but beyond that I looove the complexity this game offers.

 

[xienwolf]

FIREBALL AND METEOR!

Get those foul heathens OUT of the summoning pool, seriously!

I'd love to see those spells modified to allow a ranged attack the way people are talking about setting up Archer's in another thread, by assigning a Ranged Combat value. Maybe Meteor can also grant Blitz and another movement point to the mage so they can hurl multiple copies. You lose the Collateral damage (possibly), but you gain the ability to get XP on your mage.

But mostly... I just don't want summons anywhere but under the summoning branch. Too many people refuse to use them, and they are my favorite part of FfH by a long shot...

 

[Eddiit]

FIREBALL AND METEOR!

Get those foul heathens OUT of the summoning pool, seriously!

I'd love to see those spells modified to allow a ranged attack the way people are talking about setting up Archer's in another thread, but assigning a Ranged Combat value. Maybe Meteor can also grant Blitz and another movement point to the mage so they can hurl multiple copies. You lose the Collateral damage (possibly), but you gain the ability to get XP on your mage.

But mostly... I just don't want summons anywhere but under the summoning branch. Too many people refuse to use them, and they are my favorite part of FfH by a long shot...

I disagree. Fireball and meteor are two of the most popular spells. I'd hate to see them go. I don't really think of them as summons. They're single turn booms. So so fun.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd rather you not cut the things that actually occur in the game (I'd prefer you add back much of you already removed), but there is plenty of code in the SDK that FfH never uses which could probably make the game run a little faster if it were cut. Why are specialunit_fighter and specialunit_missile defined in xml? Also, there are unused graphics in the pak which don't need to be included in the next full version (and some that I think should be used again)

On the other hand, I don't care too much for elephants (at least as currently implemented); they are annoying, useless, and it is very odd that they can upgrade to War Tortoises and Stoneskin Ogres (War Elephant UUs that are clearly not elephants). Frankly I haven't heard anyone say anything good about them since they were added.

If you aren't going to actually use the animal packs then they too could go (so long as animals keep spawning throughout the game). I'd want panthers back if wolf packs are removed, since their stats would no longer be the same. (I really want panthers to have forest stealth, but you don't seem to want to add that promotion back)


I would be ok with removing fireballs only if you changed them to work though a ranged, targeted spell that was still able to kill and still deals fire damage. I'd prefer it be handled though C++ so it doesn't slow the game down so much. It should still show the fireballs in the graphics, even if the code is based on the airstrike code instead. I'd want a new targeted spell mechanism (preferably one the AI could handle) fine tuned before the current implementation is changed. Contagion, destroy undead, charm, pillar of fire, etc should use this (eventually) even if fireball and meteor do not.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I'm not fond of elephants. I use summoners just fine without changing fire sphere.

It'd be nice to use events to un-cut the sailor's dirge, but that's not the point here.

 

[Nimbus]

FIREBALL AND METEOR!

Get those foul heathens OUT of the summoning pool, seriously!

I'd love to see those spells modified to allow a ranged attack the way people are talking about setting up Archer's in another thread, by assigning a Ranged Combat value. Maybe Meteor can also grant Blitz and another movement point to the mage so they can hurl multiple copies. You lose the Collateral damage (possibly), but you gain the ability to get XP on your mage.

But mostly... I just don't want summons anywhere but under the summoning branch. Too many people refuse to use them, and they are my favorite part of FfH by a long shot...

Sorry I too, will disagree here, they have been in the game since spells were introduced and as a heavy magic-using player i do fine with them and fine without them, no need to see them go or to see them get changed.

 

[TallJimbo]

A few suggestions on the problem of too many buildings.

Combine Archery Range and Bowyers into one building.
Combine Mage Guild and Library into one building available with writing (leave adepts in KOTE though).
Combine Tavern and Inn into one building.

I'd second this, and add combining stables and hippodromes. Of course, they'd all need to be slower to build.

 

[Mailbox]

I agree with the problem of too many buildings. It's not only hard on new players to the mod but it's a huge problem for the AI to overcome. Merging some of the buildings and cutting some others might help with that.

Pretty much anything that exists just for the sake of one unit or a small benefit should go.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

NO!! They should be cheaper and one of each pair should be a prereq for the other, but they shouldn't be cut.

The mod needs more buildings, not fewer, but all the the buildings should have some appreciable reason to build them for their own sake, not just for units they allow. I also like the idea of making many buildings incompatible (like the advanced temples were), so you must choose one or the other (preferably include the abandon/raze building/city mod too)

 

[Ringtailed]

NO!! They should be cheaper and one of each pair should be a prereq for the other, but they shouldn't be cut.

The mod needs more buildings, not fewer, but all the the buildings should have some appreciable reason to build them for their own sake, not just for units they allow.

I agree with this; the building problem isn't that there are too many, it's that they're too expensive.

 

[Eddiit]

Yeah cutting buildings is a no-no. The mod needs more diversity not less. Options increase replayability and allow for countless more strats.

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

I'd cut back on part of the magic system. It just seems overly complex compared to the other units and systems in the game. We've got Divine, Sorcery, and Summoning, plus 17 or 18 spheres, and possibly more spheres coming...

As to how I'd cut it down? I'm not sure, someone suggesting combining summoning and sorcery in an earlier thread when I mentioned this (and above), and that could help quite a bit. Or the alternative would be to cut and/or combine spheres, but I've not come up with a satisfying way to cut a sufficient number of spheres within the lore surrounding them.

*shrug*

Can't say that I agree with removing fireball and meteor. They're useful, flavorful, and popular. However, I have liked some of the tweaks suggested in other threads (remove bombard, etc).

I'm with Nikis on the elephants. They're just in the way for a long time, then you've got them, but can't really do anything with them, then you win (or lose)... The tech to use them is too far down a seldom-used (at least for me) line to ever make elephants useful.

 

[Lord Bayushi]

Any building that does nothing aside from allowing you to build another unit. They should be removed or flushed out to allow them to do something other than slow down your production and confuse the AI.

Useless summons, such as the Azer. If a spell has no flavor or usefulness it should be removed or reworked.

Unending vassalage Requests. You should never be approached to vassalize a state with a different alighnment unless it has the same religion as you do, and you should not be approached to do so constantly.

Privateers. They are overused by the AI, consider making them a national unit.

Elephants. They do nothing but slow down the early game and take up slots that should be used to spawn animals that can be defeated/subdued.

Great Commanders. Give us Great Generals instead.

Lengthy, all consuming fires. Give fires a much higher chance of burning out rather than spreading farther. I have used a single adept to put entire elven empires into chaos.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm starting to think that the Poisons tech isn't worth keeping. It only allows Assassins, assassin UUs, and the Svartalfar hero. I'm thinking all of those would probably fit better at Deception (except the Elohim assassin UU, the Devout, which doesn't fit well at all at poisons either).

 

[Fenboy]

Privateers. They are overused by the AI, consider making them a national unit.

I disagree, Privateers make naval exploration more entertaining, and make a standing navy a necessity (otherwise I'd be tempted to simply ignore ships altogether on many maps).

Lengthy, all consuming fires. Give fires a much higher chance of burning out rather than spreading farther. I have used a single adept to put entire elven empires into chaos.

This ties into the AI's problem with using Spring effectively re: the deserts you get with blight. I'd prefer making the AI understand how to put out fires easier (and blaze should definitely be declaration of war-worthy with any FoL or elven civ).

 

[xienwolf]

To all the nay-sayers about Fireball and Meteor, I was saying to remove the UNIT, not the spell. The alternative to the spell ought to be more attractive as it allows the caster to gain XP. But mostly, he asked what YOU would cut, and that is something I would so

Even though I love summons with all my heart, I would agree that if they have nothing unique to offer, they ought to be axed, but IMO that means replaced, so this is not quite the appropriate place to fight that fight for me.

I'd ditch the Swordsman/Axeman dual unit mechanic, but there isn't much to be gained by dropping it. I just don't like having a seperate unit just to change the graphic of their weapon.

Honestly, I think Siege units have about had it. Make Dwarven Siege units UU's, or replacements for Chariots. Allow all of the Bombarding of defenses to be Magical, or grant it as a special ability on other creatures/units. Especially now that defenses will be lower all around, Siege is just... done.

For Buildings, the ones I see as able to be removed/consolidated are: Alchemy Lab, Aqueduct, Ring of Warding, Forbidden Palace & Winter Palace (Encourages expansion too much in a game where many are struggling to keep untamed wilderness throughout the game)

All the other buildings I still see some use for, or they enable units.

 

[Eddiit]

I disagree, Privateers make naval exploration more entertaining, and make a standing navy a necessity (otherwise I'd be tempted to simply ignore ships altogether on many maps).



This ties into the AI's problem with using Spring effectively re: the deserts you get with blight. I'd prefer making the AI understand how to put out fires easier (and blaze should definitely be declaration of war-worthy with any FoL or elven civ).

Endless fires drive me nuts as well. Slows the game down and doesn't really serve any purpose.

 

[Caradoc]

I may be the one CowSaysMoo was referring to. I would ditch the entire Summoning branch and add a single summons to some of the Sorcery schools. Why? The Summoned creatures are all too much alike and they serve only one purpose, combat. And yet they provide the caster with no EPs. At the same time, I would like to see more spell choices at each level. To do this, I'd drop all or most of Sun, Shadow, Entropy, Spirit, Body, Enchantment, and Dimensional and move their good spells to the remaining schools.