What's a Born Again Christian?

[Turner]

Who are you talking to?

 

[GenMarshall]

I did. I remain unconvinced. Why would Christ come to open the world to his faith and take away such dogma as circumcision only to replace it with child baptism?

/*shrug* I dont know what to say, but its in there. Infant Baptism = Washing away Original Sin and ensuring that the Child would go into heaven if something ever happens to him or her.

Anyway, I feel that if I take Christ as my direct example in all things (which I do) and Christ was baptised as an adult - then I should be baptised as an adult. No question about it.

All fine and dandy, you have your Theology and I have my Theology. However regardless if Jesus is baptized as an adult, I'll still baptize my child as an infant .

I just disagree that one can simply wash away original sin without some choice being made to follow Jesus.

And that my friend is what places you in Protestant Christianity on the issue of infant baptism .

And yes, sometimes I think many of those churchs have lost something in all the trappings and symbolism involved in a church service.

As well as I see Protestant Churches are misguided and just see Protestants as our lost brothers and sisters in Christ. Though with out Protestants, we would not have the needed changes in the Catholic Church that was badly needed and the Council of Trent .

This is the biggest problem I see between Catholics and Protestants, and causes the most fights between the two.

Please dont remind me about that. Bad enough I had to read about The Protestant Reformation, The Religious Wars in France, and the Irish Catholic/Protestant conflict .

 

[garric]

MobBoss and anyone else who believes in two circumcisions. baptisms, or adult baptism.

 

[Katheryn]

Born-again is a term used by Jesus in John Chapter 3:

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+3&version=45


Jesus said that a man is born dead in his spirit.

So, he must be 'born again', not of the flesh, but in his spirit.

When a spirit is born, it is done by grace, through faith.

Grace is a free gift - salvation is a free gift.

Through faith - as in a person believes that the gift is good enough - Jesus' sacrifice is enough.

As one does this, you are 'repenting' which means 'turning' towards God, and away from other distractions that keep you away from God.

And this act is 'reconciliation with God'.

A person may not understand completely what he has done, but the Bible says it is a pretty simple process and doesn't need too much intelligence:

Joel 2:

...And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

For me personally, the conversion experience was a total surprise, and I didn't expect to find a whole new world open up. But it did, and I was "born-again".

 

[Katheryn]

Garric, do you know anything about the anti-abortion movement?

You quoted this:

__________________
"Okay, Abortion is NOT about killing babies. The wrinkly old white men in washington would love to stop abortion because it is a way to control women. Why should they have any say over what a woman can do to her body?" Neomega

Hate to break this to you, but the most vehement of the anti-abortion activists are WOMEN who have HAD ABORTIONS, were rushed through it, not given correct information about it, and regretted it deeply for years afterward. Recently, a magazine did a campaign for proabortion rights. They made t-shirts that said, "I had an abortion!" . This was a reaction to a campaign done by pro-lifers who were all women who regretted having an abortion and had t-shirts that said, "I had an abortion and regret it!" You can look it up yourself.

 

[garric]

Garric, do you know anything about the anti-abortion movement?

You quoted this:



Hate to break this to you, but the most vehement of the anti-abortion activists are WOMEN who have HAD ABORTIONS, were rushed through it, not given correct information about it, and regretted it deeply for years afterward. Recently, a magazine did a campaign for proabortion rights. They made t-shirts that said, "I had an abortion!" . This was a reaction to a campaign done by pro-lifers who were all women who regretted having an abortion and had t-shirts that said, "I had an abortion and regret it!" You can look it up yourself.

Not sure how this is relevant to this thread, but the quote is from another poster on this forum, named Neomega.

I'm pro-abortion.

 

[GenMarshall]

Can we please not turn this thread into an abortion debate ?

 

[Turner]

Indeed, that's fodder for another thread.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Its a decision and a statement to dedicate your life to Christ...not something that is done for you.

As far as I know, that is called Confirmation.

Oops, sorry, there have been a half dozen posts about just that rite.

Yes, Catholics, Anglicans, and Methodists share pretty much the same mass. The difference is that the two protestant churches call themselves the "small c" catholics. The Roman Catholics follow the Bishop of Rome, the Anglicans follow the Archbishop of Canterbury from when it was split away from the big C Catholic church, and the Methodists are an evangelical group following the teachings of John and Charles Wesley.

Anglicans and Methodists are the two main protestant groups who chose to keep the formality of the older church, but still have differences with the conclusions of the big C doctrine, or dogma it's also known.

Other protestant groups didn't see the need to keep many of the trappings of the big C, so they have services that are significantly different in scope and form.

If you want something completely different, I went to a Pentacostal equivalent of a church service once. Half of it was like a banter back and forth between the speaker and the audience, like what goes on at a basketball game with the head cheerleader calling out the chant and everyone responding, with loud energetic music, and no real form to the service that I could distinguish. It was like a big group bonding with people going through seizures and occasionally muttering gibberish, along with the random "praise the lord" and halleluiah.

It was a show, for sure. It's also the final reason I gave up the whole faith thing. They really put it in perspecitve for me. Belief in God, (or Jesus or Mohammed, Shiva, Bhudda... whatever) started to look suspiciously like belief in UFOs and aliens and conspiracy theories.

 

[Adamb0mb]

For me personally, the conversion experience was a total surprise, and I didn't expect to find a whole new world open up. But it did, and I was "born-again".

Did you get baptized when you became "born-again"

{if thats too personal a question go ahead and disregard me}

 

[MobBoss]

/*shrug* I dont know what to say, but its in there. Infant Baptism = Washing away Original Sin and ensuring that the Child would go into heaven if something ever happens to him or her.

I think the bible quite clear that merely being baptised is not a gurantee into heaven.

You, of course, are free to do what you will. I merely point out that, once more, I refer to biblical scripture and apply it directly to my life. Thus since Jesus had an adult baptism, so will me and mine.

MobBoss and anyone else who believes in two circumcisions. baptisms, or adult baptism.

Again, I dont believe in two baptisms, but if a man desires to be baptised twice, who am I to judge him and say "no"?

No, I am not anabaptist. I am non-denominational evangelical.

 

[El_Machinae]

People have covered it well:

A born-again Christian is one who has asked Jesus to accept/forgive their sins. This is often accompanied by a 'washing or uplifting' spiritual experience. Many born-agains believe that this step is the last necessary step to get into Heaven.

As well, there's a trend for many born-agains to then seek the ability to speak in tongues, which is another can of worms (and rather tough to describe). Basically, in their worldview, the Holy Spirit enters them and gives them the ability to speak a holy language (depending upon the congregation, they have different uses of this language: prayer, worship, intercession, prophecy, etc.). This language, without being offensive, sounds like gibberish to the layperson. I won't delve into the psychological reasons for this ability here. The born-agains seem to see this ability as a 'second stage' to being a Christian - one is more accomplished or gifted as a Christian if they have this ability, but they'll deny that there's any bias regarding this ability.

Finally, the term 'born again' is associated with being a bit annoying, due to their constant desire to pronounce their Christianity. So, people who have quit smoking or taken up exercise are likened to born-again Christians, because they'll annoyingly try to convert others to their newfound pleasures.

 

[GenMarshall]

I think the bible quite clear that merely being baptised is not a gurantee into heaven.

You, of course, are free to do what you will. I merely point out that, once more, I refer to biblical scripture and apply it directly to my life. Thus since Jesus had an adult baptism, so will me and mine.

This is where you and I, Protestant and Catholic, are different. I dont rely on strictly to biblic scriptures for my life. Sorry, but Sola scriptura (Latin: "by scripture alone") is not for me, I rely on both Scripture and Tradition as well as my own moral compass in interacting with other humans.

I do believe that being baptised gives us grace that would garantee us to go into heaven, provided that we dont fall out of grace due to personal sin. However thats the beauty of the Sacrament of Reconsilliation (Though Protestants reject coffessing sins to a priest ).

This is where I ask you, what happens to unbaptized babies, unbaptized Christians, and non-Christians when they die In your theology and beliefs?

Finally, the term 'born again' is associated with being a bit annoying, due to their constant desire to pronounce their Christianity. So, people who have quit smoking or taken up exercise are likened to born-again Christians, because they'll annoyingly try to convert others to their newfound pleasures.

You know as a Catholic Christian, you may be supprised that I would agree with you on this one because not only is incorrect (Check my links in my previous post for my beliefs, I dont like to litter this thread with long theological explanations) but it also makes me feel that these Protestant "Born agains" are on a higher moral standing than everyone else.

 

[Mauer]

So what happened to the thief on the cross that believed and professed Christ? He wasn't baptized.

 

[GenMarshall]

So what happened to the thief on the cross that believed and professed Christ? He wasn't baptized.

He did garuntee that he would go up in heaven IIRC. Also the thief himself was not baptized at all.

 

[bhsup]

(Though Protestants reject coffessing sins to a priest ).

Our intercessor between us and God is Christ himself. That's why we don't need no priest to forgive our sins.

 

[Xanikk999]

So whats the deal with miscarriages? Do those babies go to hell because they werent baptised?

 

[Mauer]

Do Catholics hold Hebrews as part of canon?

 

[GenMarshall]

So whats the deal with miscarriages? Do those babies go to hell because they werent baptised?

In Catholic Theology, we can only entrust the mercy of God and Jesus's fondness and kindness towards children to babies that are not baptized due to dying after birth, miscarriages, or abortions.

 

[El_Machinae]

Almost nobody answers the 'miscarriage' question, except sometimes to small children who demand an actual answer.

Our intercessor between us and God is Christ himself. That's why we don't need no priest to forgive our sins.

Is there a requirement to confess to those you have offended/injured, or are all sins considered to be sins against God?

For example, if you slept with my wife, would you be beholden to apologise to me and her, or would you be beholden to confess to God, alone in the comfort of your closet?