What's a Born Again Christian?

[puglover]

What if you don't get re-baptized, then you're not a born-again?

I still don't see how this is a voting bloc, I don't see how it's possible to have so many individuals, or even families, go through life changing experiences and become born again..

How can a child be a born again Christian?

What if someone's a born again and he has a child, is he counted as born again?

1) Being born-again is about the state of your soul. If you aren't called to the follow Christ, you do not have a reborn soul.

2) Why not?

3) If the child accepts Christ as the Saviour and is baptised, then yes, he or she is born-again.

4) That is a matter of Christian theology. Seriously, the state of the souls of children is a question that has been debated over for centuries.

Jesus was a born again Christian. He died as a Jew and then was born again.

At least that's what I read somewhere.

Not exactly. He wasn't born again. He rose from the dead. That's unrelated to being a "Born-again Christian." We will follow Christ's example in resurrection, but being born-again is about spiritual renewal and repentance from sin, something Jesus didn't need to do.

 

[GenMarshall]

As a born-again christian let me tell you what it means to me. To me it means taking a vow to leave my secular old life behind and be "born again" in my faith in Jesus. I leave behind my old ways of the world, and vow to walk his (Jesus') ways.

I dont see it that way nor do I see myself "born again" after I returned to Christianity. Insted I see myself insted having a "spiritual reawakening" so to speak. I have already been validly baptised and I dont see the need to be rebaptised. Plus in the Canon Law, I dont need to be rebaptised since I have already gone through infant baptism. Right now I am on my way to get Confirmation and First Communion.

In general, people who claim to be born-again feel that they have a higher calling or a higher behavioral standard in their faith. It is one of the main reasons I refuse to compromise in my faith on issues many fold on.

However I am more laxed and would compromise on issues to avoid shoving my faith down other people's mouths nor impose my morals onto them.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That is not relaxing your standards at all. I am true to my beliefs - and one of those beliefs is that I cannot force anything on anyone.

 

[GenMarshall]

That is not relaxing your standards at all. I am true to my beliefs - and one of those beliefs is that I cannot force anything on anyone.

I wonder how you can be true to your beliefs but yet still able to compromise?

At one end, there is a person who wont compromise his faith on issues that folds on. Then there is another that is true to their beliefs but yet cannot or wont force anything on anyone.

I do need to find a happy moderate ground since I have already seen in the past that many of my views offended many .

 

[puglover]

Just believe whatever seems most rational to you, Civ. If something is true in your eyes, by all means believe it. However, be open to new suggestions, even if you aren't going to believe them.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Like I said, I am not compromising my views at all. I merely compromise how they are used.

One of my most important views is that every human being must be allowed to figure out the truth, or what they think is the truth, for themselves. Another is that we cannot force someone to do or not do something unless it is harming someone else.

 

[mangxema]

What if you don't get re-baptized, then you're not a born-again?

I still don't see how this is a voting bloc, I don't see how it's possible to have so many individuals, or even families, go through life changing experiences and become born again..

How can a child be a born again Christian?

What if someone's a born again and he has a child, is he counted as born again?

As other people have mentioned, the second 'birth' is a spiritual one. My background is mainly with Lutheran churches, so i can't say for certain what the 'born-again' types believe. That said, I think those churches tend to baptize people later in life, when the person can actually make a conscious decision that yes, this is what I want to do, whereas Lutherans generally baptize babies with the understanding that the spiritual stuff will come over time. So I don't think there's a lot of 'rebaptizing' going on; those that are are doing it more as conversion rite of passage. Or something.

(End speculation.)

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

One of my most important views is that every human being must be allowed to figure out the truth, or what they think is the truth, for themselves. Another is that we cannot force someone to do or not do something unless it is harming someone else.

You sir, have realized the truth.

 

[MobBoss]

Plus in the Canon Law, I dont need to be rebaptised since I have already gone through infant baptism.

Question. Was Jesus baptised as an adult or a child? Do you think a child, a baby even, understands baptism? Nope.

EDIT: Here is what the bible says about being born again and baptism.

John 3
The New Birth
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
John the Baptist Exalts Christ

22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. 24 For John had not yet been thrown into prison.
25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”
27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[Taliesin]

Question. Was Jesus baptised as an adult or a child? Do you think a child, a baby even, understands baptism? Nope.

Does it matter? By our creed we recognise one baptism for the forgiveness of sins-- you don't get another one just because you didn't understand.

I respect your belief, but there's no call to attack CG's. (That being said, I'm not sure if you are attacking him or not, so don't take this too seriously if you're not.)

 

[MobBoss]

Does it matter?

Of course it does. Being a christian is about choice. If you are unable to make such a choice or understand it, how can it be effective?

By our creed we recognise one baptism for the forgiveness of sins-- you don't get another one just because you didn't understand.

Ok, exactly how many sins has a baby committed? A man gives his life over to Jesus once...however, I dont have a problem with a man who has backslid for many years desireing to be baptised again in order to wipe the slate clean and rededicate his life to God.

 

[Taliesin]

Of course it does. Being a christian is about choice. If you are unable to make such a choice or understand it, how can it be effective?

It's effective by the power of the Spirit and of Him who instituted one holy baptism. Are you saying child baptism isn't really baptism?

Ok, exactly how many sins has a baby committed? A man gives his life over to Jesus once...however, I dont have a problem with a man who has backslid for many years desireing to be baptised again in order to wipe the slate clean and rededicate his life to God.

Then why not be baptised every Easter, and then maybe on his deathbed for good measure? Wipe the slate clean whenever you want, I guess.

Infant baptism fills the breach left by original sin, and welcomes the child into the body of Christ. He must still choose to live Christian faith, or not, later on, but that isn't tied up with baptism. Isn't it important that a person be in the Church, even if his faith is lacking? (And anyway, aren't we all lacking faith?)

 

[GenMarshall]

Question. Was Jesus baptised as an adult or a child? Do you think a child, a baby even, understands baptism? Nope.

I do have to agree with Taliesin and thats no call to attack my faith and belief in infant baptism. I understand that you believe in credobaptism, but I however believe in paedobaptism in that it part of the promise to raise one's child Catholic as well as replacing the old practace of Circumcision:

Covenant Theology:
Premise #1: Circumcision is the sign of the covenant God made with Abraham and should be received by all the members of his covenant (Gen. 17:10-11).
Premise #2: The children of members of Abraham's covenant are themselves members of Abraham's covenant (Gen 17:7, Dt. 7:9, 30:6, 1Ch 16:15, Psa 103:17, 105:8).
Premise #3: Christians are members of Abraham's covenant (Galatians 3:6-9 & Galatians 3:26-29; Romans 11.17-24; Rom. 4:16; Eph. 2:11-13; Eph. 3:3-6; Rom 2:28-29; 1 Peter 2:9; Gal. 6:16; Phil 3:2-3).
Premise #4: Therefore, the children of Christians are members of Abraham's covenant (follows logically and necessarily from 2 & 3; 1 Cor. 7:14; Acts 2:38).
Premise #5: Baptism is the New Testament form of circumcision (Col. 2:11-12).
Conclusion: Therefore, the children of Christians should receive the sign of the covenant by being baptized (logically and necessarily from 1, 4, & 5)

Jesus and older Converts to the Roman Catholic Church are baptized as adults (Provided that they are not baptized or came from a non-Christian religion). However we as Catholics believe in paedobaptism (infant baptism) because we see it as a sign of the Covenant between God and our child (Also known as the Covenant Theology). As I have placed forward, Christians who agree and practace infant baptism (Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopals, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Continental Reformed, and Methodists.)

EDIT: Here is what the bible says about being born again and baptism.

Funny, since that is where Roman Catholics draw their theology of Baptism from the same set of scriptures. However that is only one piece of the puzzle in that you have neglected to made mention of Titus 3:5, Rom. 2:29; Col. 2:11–12, 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15. However to be born again one must be baptized.

This site has a better explanation of my beliefs:
Are Catholics Born Again? @ Catholic Answers
Infant Baptism (This Rock: 2002年1&#26376
Early Teachings of Infant Baptism @ Catholic Answers
To Explain Infant Baptism You Must Explain Original Sin (This Rock: 2005年2&#26376

Of course it does. Being a christian is about choice. If you are unable to make such a choice or understand it, how can it be effective?

Are you saying that my Infant Baptism is invald? Sorry, but I would have to disagree with you on that one. I dont need to be rebaptized since my infant baptism is already valid.

Ok, exactly how many sins has a baby committed? A man gives his life over to Jesus once...however, I dont have a problem with a man who has backslid for many years desireing to be baptised again in order to wipe the slate clean and rededicate his life to God.

Original Sin from Adam and Eve rings a bell. Rebaptism to me is is just a way to escape the sin of one's past life. "Opps, I just sinned big time, time for me to get baptized again."

 

[Taliesin]

Let's not turn this into a theological debate about what's a better system. Obviously the question of baptism is about as basic as it gets in all of our faiths, and an argument about it will not accomplish anything besides getting everyone mad and taking up server space.

It would be best if we agree to civilly disagree.

 

[GenMarshall]

Let's not turn this into a theological debate about what's a better system. Obviously the question of baptism is about as basic as it gets in all of our faiths, and an argument about it will not accomplish anything besides getting everyone mad and taking up server space.

It would be best if we agree to civilly disagree.

True, though I felt a little offended when he made a sly suggestion that my infant baptism is invalid in the Bible.

 

[MobBoss]

It's effective by the power of the Spirit and of Him who instituted one holy baptism. Are you saying child baptism isn't really baptism?

I dont think it is AND I was child baptised. Show me a reference to it in the bible and the scripture to back it up. From everything that I have read it was an adult decision done by adults...not children.

Then why not be baptised every Easter, and then maybe on his deathbed for good measure? Wipe the slate clean whenever you want, I guess.

Now I think you are confusing baptism with repentance. And if you want to be baptised every Easter, who am I (or you) to say its wrong?

Infant baptism fills the breach left by original sin, and welcomes the child into the body of Christ. He must still choose to live Christian faith, or not, later on, but that isn't tied up with baptism. Isn't it important that a person be in the Church, even if his faith is lacking? (And anyway, aren't we all lacking faith?)

I personally think infant baptism is just dogma. I think dedicating a child to christ is fine and biblical, but that is done outside of a childs will. Baptism involves a decision making process and its not something a parent decides for a child, even if the child is infant baptised. Bottom line, I think it important for people to be baptised after the age of accountability even if they were baptised as a child. Its a decision and a statement to dedicate your life to Christ...not something that is done for you.

 

[GenMarshall]

I dont think it is AND I was child baptised. Show me a reference to it in the bible and the scripture to back it up. From everything that I have read it was an adult decision done by adults...not children.

Take a look at the links I have provided. Plus Taliesin and I are not in the mood to drag this thread into a Theological Debate. I have said my peace and presented my views. You are half way correct (In my theology) in that Adults do make a decision for their baptism. However Adults too also chose to have their children baptized as well, wheather it be for cultural reasons (Raising the Child Catholic) or Theological (To wash away original sins and to be in God's Covonent). Heck I dont heaven have the heart (or the stomach) to have my son circumcized. I see Baptism as a replacement for the old circumcizions of Jewish tradition and I do appreciate that you respect my beliefs insted of casing out that "it is wrong".

I personally think infant baptism is just dogma. I think dedicating a child to christ is fine and biblical, but that is done outside of a childs will. Baptism involves a decision making process and its not something a parent decides for a child, even if the child is infant baptised. Bottom line, I think it important for people to be baptised after the age of accountability even if they were baptised as a child. Its a decision and a statement to dedicate your life to Christ...not something that is done for you.

I do find it strange that Protestants reject Confirmation and replace it with (Credo) Baptism. The way I see it, the Infant is Baptized to be in God's Covonent and wash away original sin. Then when the Child gets to the Age of Reason (In which in your case the age of accountability) thats when a Child choses to continue being a Christian through Confirmation or leave the church.

I dont know how infant baptism is just dogma when other Denominations does it. Are you saying that these denominations are incorrect?

 

[MobBoss]

Take a look at the links I have provided.

I did. I remain unconvinced. Why would Christ come to open the world to his faith and take away such dogma as circumcision only to replace it with child baptism?

Anyway, I feel that if I take Christ as my direct example in all things (which I do) and Christ was baptised as an adult - then I should be baptised as an adult. No question about it.

I do find it strange that Protestants reject Confirmation and replace it with (Credo) Baptism. The way I see it, the Infant is Baptized to be in God's Covonent and wash away original sin. Then when the Child gets to the Age of Reason (In which in your case the age of accountability) thats when a Child choses to continue being a Christian through Confirmation or leave the church.

I have no problems with dedications and confirmations and indeed think they are important in a childs religious development. I just disagree that one can simply wash away original sin without some choice being made to follow Jesus.

I dont know how infant baptism is just dogma when other Denominations does it. Are you saying that these denominations are incorrect?

Having been to Catholic services and in turn Anglican and Methodist, you would be suprised to find how similiar their services are. I personally think that too much emphasis is placed on the procedure of church as opposed to the relationship one is supposed to have with Christ. But thats just me. I can only take so much kneeling and up/downs in a service.

And yes, sometimes I think many of those churchs have lost something in all the trappings and symbolism involved in a church service. To me, Jesus kept it fairly simple. So that is what I strive for in my walk of faith today.

 

[Turner]

@Mob - Catholics don't believe they need another baptism in order to be saved. The infant baptism is enough.

However, your point on it being a choice does have a Catholic equivalent - Confirmation. Not to mention your first confession and first communion. Catholics have rites they use to reaffirm their belief, much as you have your rebaptism at a later age.

This is the biggest problem I see between Catholics and Protestants, and causes the most fights between the two.

 

[garric]

Let me gues, you're an Anabaptist?