What's the deal with Buganda?

[Hannibal XIII]

For that matter, the Chinese and Koreans overwhelmingly built with wood, which is why they have few ancient structures still standing. (I'm less familiar with Japan but suspect the same is true of them.)

Yeah wood buildings were predominant enough in Japan that US firebombing did especial damage to the civilian population in WWII -- even with fortifications there were impressive stone bases that predominantly wooden castles were propped up on.

Laughing at myself that I forgot the Zulu (who I have to confess I always thought got in on reputation -- the succession of Shona states in Zimbabwe are more impressive to me at least.)

 

[Uberfrog]

I suspect the choice of Buganda comes from a desire to include a pre-colonial late game civ from an under-represented region (Southern Africa) that isn’t the Zulu.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I suspect the choice of Baganda comes from a desire to include a pre-colonial late game civ from an under-represented region (Southern Africa) that isn’t the Zulu.

The Rozvi are right there

 

[j51]

By this account Civ7 should also include preclassical sardinian nuraghi civilization, to make a random example.

That would rule.

 

[Giskler]

Quite pathetic that insistence on inclusivity forces game devs to include a supposed 'civilization' that didn't even build STONE BUILDINGS. By this account Civ7 should also include preclassical sardinian nuraghi civilization, to make a random example. Such is the current zeitgeist, though.

The Zulu have been in the series since Civ1??

I'm also pretty sure Mongolia under Genghis Khan razed more stone buildings than they built, but hey.

 

[Professor Phobo]

I don't care if a polity lasted for five minutes and had ten people and built nothing but a single tent, I want all of 'em. Every civilization we have a name for. Just put 'em in.

 

[Guandao]

I think Firaxis wanted a representative from the African Great Lakes region. Other possibilities were Rwanda and Burundi.

 

[eduhum]

Buganda was never more than a not-even-regional chieftancy that the british happened to encounter. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of polities in eurasia that were way more 'civilized' than them. I wonder, though, if it's racist to discuss about levels of civilization in a game called civilization. Hmm

 

[Guandao]

Here we go again.....

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Buganda was never more than a not-even-regional chieftancy that the british happened to encounter. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of polities in eurasia that were way more 'civilized' than them. I wonder, though, if it's racist to discuss about levels of civilization in a game called civilization. Hmm

Not racist per se, but "civilized" is a fluffy term; it brings nothing useful to any discussion, no serious person uses it

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Not racist per se, but "civilized" is a fluffy term; it brings nothing useful to any discussion, no serious person uses it

To quote myself quoting someone else:

Tatars are not a civilised people, they are not recognised as such; though in our time, when “civilised” nations are dropping bombs with packets of poisoned sweetmeats upon the civil population of undefended cities, and torpedoing passenger steamers without notice, our notions about civilisation are rather confused.

- V. Dingelstedt (1917)

 

[eduhum]

To quote myself quoting someone else:

I know right? Evil modern man; however, smiling african children in their muddy hut.

 

[Giskler]

I know right? Evil modern man; however, smiling african children in their muddy hut.

Your tone is getting a bit too "white man's burden" for me bro.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I know right? Evil modern man; however, smiling african children in their muddy hut.

 

[eduhum]

We could write on how levels of war brutality have gone down correlating with modernity levels, but then we would miss on writing romantic quotes on how bombs are bad.

Or the way the bantu expansion on the whole southern half of africa was based on the most brutal and systematic genocide of millions of people that can't historiographically be counted because... they weren't civilised enough to transcript anything. Sorry i forgot, 'civilization' is a fake term that nobody 'serious' uses. Hmm how could i get my point across

 

[Zaarin]

then we would miss on writing romantic quotes on how bombs are bad.

I'm sorry, is there someone outside the war industry who thinks bombs are good?

I know right? Evil modern man; however, smiling african children in their muddy hut.

Ah, yes, "we're not as civilized as we pat ourselves on the back for" and "noble savage" definitely walk hand in hand.

 

[eduhum]

If this game is going to include a bunch of tribal kingdoms that had
no stone buildings,
no professional differentiation,
no administrative bureaucracies,
no continuous history for more than 1-2 centuries,
no writing system of their own,
no established religion beyond local shamanism,
no minted currencies,
(i could go on and on)
because the public finds it cute to fill all the continents with representation, then, fine, i guess ¿?

But please let's not bear ourselves with the intellectual indignity of this flattening proclamation that the concept of of civilization, progress, modernity, etc is false, and adorning our stances with sensible quotes about how modern man bad just like genghis khan because bombs were thrown, if so then so then the French civilization is just like Buganda chieftaindom bro, don't be like rudyard kipling it's gross bro.
I get it, we all want to be -good people- and to -not be disrespectful-, so go you can go ahead with the patronising moralisation if that makes you feel better... lmao.

 

[Zaarin]

Wow.

 

[leif erikson]

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