[MoO] Whats the most unbalanced custom race you've ever made (MOO2)?

[neilkaz]

OK re: Psionics moral boost, I can say with 100% certainty that it doesn't help democracies, since in this on going demolith game, I just got it and it didn't help.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[scratchthepitch]

In my current game I noticed one system had more morale. I thought something got messed up in the mod, but then I remembered that system had a leader who had the spiritual asset, which boosts morale. Maybe the time before when you thought psionics had boosted a dem government, you noticed the morale boost from a leader? I'm using the feudal government in this latest game and I'll see if I can get psionics and see if it boosts morale for feudal. I'll have to trade for it or conquer it since the race I'm playing is uncreative and they cant research it.

 

[neilkaz]

I'll also check Feudal for Psionics as I seemed to recall it helped moral in my Sakkra game but won't swear by it.

I rolled a game this morning (will play later) as a Feudal production race.

Feud/Rep for my 10 minuses and Sub/Aqua/Prod+2/LRHW for 20 plusses. I have very little experience playing as Feudal, but lots of experience playing repulsive production races so I expect to have a playable game for myself.

Needing 3 farmers on my very fine pop 28 HW I have 5 workers free which generate 35 production which is knocked down to 21 after losing 14 to pollution. When it comes to research being Feudal totally sucks as I get only 1.5 RP per scientist. I'll play as a production race and sell the starbase and buy my colony base after 5 turns (190BC for 95PP) and then try to rush tech to labs.

Certainly something like LithoTol (basically Silicoid) is a better non Uni production race, but at least here I can crank out ships for less PP and hopefully can pump out a couple colony ships and the AI's won't attack too soon.

Feudal should probably be used as a blitz race, but prewarp blitzing a cluster map (72 stars) seems unlikely to get too far before I run into races with way more tech that I can't hurt. Anyhow, if I could blitz it, I'd be done prior to being able to get Psionics, defeating my purpose.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[scratchthepitch]

There are 3 creative races in my current game (playing a feudal gov.), but nobody has got psionics yet. One of the creatives should reach it soon as it is passed turn 250. When one of them does, they'll probably trade it around. These guys are doing a lot of tech trading. The Klackons (an uncreative race) nabbed Orion around turn 230 and quickly everybody had most of that tech. Except me, the selfish little twerps didn't want to trade any of it with my guys.

Using feudal with +2 prod and LRHW should crank out the ships for you. My guys are feudal with +1 prod on a LPHW and while they had a slow start, it didn't take too long before my HW was cranking out a colony ship every 3-4 turns.

 

[neilkaz]

My Feudal production race game is going fine, but the race is, as expected inferior to Uni-prod races or Demolith. After playing as Demolith the past couple of games, the crippled tech rate from being Feudal is no fun at all. Fortunately, I spawned in the lower right corner and didn't have any AI races right on top of me so I could grab three new systems (I chickened out making the 4th colony ship as while Bears above me were amiable, relations with the Lizards were declining and I'd grabbed a pop 30 planet to farm near them so I expected an attack) and make labs/factories/supercomps and get some RP's.

Sure enough Saks attack that system around turn 125 but I had a couple nuke missile DD's ready and another on the way and rush built one with my spare cash and was fine. I went for Pollution Processors rather than Merc missiles since my good planets (that great HW) were suffering badly from pollution. This isn't recommended since it leaves you without a good missile (you'll like need Atmos Renewers as well so no Pulsons) but MIRV Nukes miniturize nicely and work fine against the AI early on. However, nukes don't seem to do much vs the Guardian, and to take it out with EMG missiles you need Mercs. However, the Saks love to research missiles and my ground troops stole both Mercs and Pulsons.

Turn 200 now, and the Saks are gone and I have almost finished researching EMG. AutoLabs will be next and then my tech will be fine. I can crank out MIRV Merc BB's as needed as well, but before a big fleet can be afforded I need Subspace Comm and to get a couple more star bases built on developing colonies. My other planet in my home system has been 1 pop housing for most of the game (except to built needed things) and now with Robo-Miners is giving me a new colonist quicker than every 3 turns which is great to transfer to the pop 35 UR Monster planet I've colonized.

I'm in command of this game, although maybe 30-50 turns behind using an uber-race. LOL when I went to take that monster planet I left my upper border undefended (needing several DD to kill a dragon and not having a BB yet) and sure enough the Bears can in with a DD and 8 transports but since I rushed my own DD to defend they didn't attack or DOW me and just left. They will be my next victim on the way to Orion. It will be some turns before I can get to Psionics to answer the original question, but I have to play to win the game.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[neilkaz]

Turn 300 in my Feudal Prod race game and it is almost over. I could have won in GC earlier, but will reduce the last civ to 1 planet and take Antares no later than turn 310.

Yes, Psionics does indeed give +10 moral to Feudal, so it helps Feud and Dict moral but not Demo moral.

Re: AI CP issues.. they clearly suffer from them like we do. Trilarians had a huge 30 ship fleet a few turns ago, and now it is 8 ships since they've lost a bunch of planets and since I've been using Locknar's ship to kill several more starbases/battlestations while waiting for transports.

After this game I'll take a break and play some Civ5 and GalCiv2

.. neilkaz ..

 

[scratchthepitch]

Turn 300 in my Feudal Prod race game and it is almost over. I could have won in GC earlier, but will reduce the last civ to 1 planet and take Antares no later than turn 310.

Sounds like it was a great game.

Yes, Psionics does indeed give +10 moral to Feudal, so it helps Feud and Dict moral but not Demo moral.

I also confirmed this in my current game. I'll have to modify the psionics reference files to show it.

Re: AI CP issues.. they clearly suffer from them like we do. Trilarians had a huge 30 ship fleet a few turns ago, and now it is 8 ships since they've lost a bunch of planets and since I've been using Locknar's ship to kill several more starbases/battlestations while waiting for transports.

That seems like a definitive confirmation, then. Thanks. In my game the Meklars became the major rival. By default, 2 of the other races surrendered to them, doubling their empire's size. The Burathis surrendered to the Meklars when threatened by the Silicoids. The Bulrathis and Silicoids were at opposite corners on the map and had been at war for at least a dozen turns with nothing happening. Then all of a sudden, they surrendered to the Meklars. So much for that Bulrathi macho reputation. The Silicoids later surrendered to the Meklars after I had reduced their empire by about a third. The Meklars got a pretty good haul from that. The Bulrathis surrendered on turn 242 and the Silicoids on 258. According to the council vote figures, the Meklars went from 4th place at size 9 on turn 225 to 2nd place at size 38 on turn 274. When the Silicoids surrendered to them, the Silicoids were #2 and the Meklars #3, it doubled the size of the Meklar empire. The ships of those surrendering also go with the pop and the planets. I assume they get the troops on the planets also. I wonder if these surrendered ships are upgradeable by the new owners. Captured ships can not be upgraded. I don't think the AI ever upgrades their ships. I've never seen an AI empire surrender to a player, so I doubt I'll get to find out if ships from a surrendered empire can be upgraded.

I have noticed in this game that marine killing weapons (neutron blasters/death rays) are killing 1 marine per 10 damage points for the regular size weapon, and 1 marine per 5 damage points for the heavy version. The game reference has these weapons killing 1 marine per 5 damage points. I had not really paid that much attention to that before, but it had seemed the weapons were killing less marines than the reference said they would.

After this game I'll take a break and play some Civ5 and GalCiv2

.. neilkaz ..

You had a good run. Good luck, and thanks for all the helpful info you posted.

 

[El_Machinae]

A technique I've been using lately, and it feels terribly cheap, is to capture Antaran ships. I load up a stock of assault shuttles, and intensely board the raiders. After I capture their ships, and I salvage them for tech. It usually gives me a huge military advantage partway through the game

 

[scratchthepitch]

A technique I've been using lately, and it feels terribly cheap, is to capture Antaran ships. I load up a stock of assault shuttles, and intensely board the raiders. After I capture their ships, and I salvage them for tech. It usually gives me a huge military advantage partway through the game

Definitely. I just learned this could be done the past year. Most of the time they explode, but one time I got very lucky and captured all 3 of a raiding force. If tried early in a game, it's really tough to overcome the Antaran troop tech advantage and you need lots of shuttles.

 

[creamcheese]

For the past couple of days I have been getting back into MoOII and my new favorite race (for playing the AI, it is too slow for humans probably) looks like this:

Dictatorship
Subterranean
Creative
Large HW
Rich HW
Artifacts world
-ground combat
-spying
-low gravity
(you can trade the home world improvements for other things that cost 6 picks, or even change to a repulsive race if you like, it is the sub+creative I like)

I have yet to even come close to losing a planet to the AI on impossible. The traits mean I can build huge population worlds with all improvements and have all techs. Terraforming/shields/grav generator/artificial planets means I can settle almost any planet and have it become hugely productive and populous.

It does start a bit slow in production, hence the HW improvements, but sub+creative can be killer once you fill your planets up. All of those improvements that are +1 or more per workers work very well. I generally like to put missile base + radiation shields for some cheap planetary defense early on.

Every game is won by turn ~220 (when Antarans arrive) basically, by this point I have so much population and tech from creative I can stomp any other player with my high energy focus, structural analyzer, Gauss cannons.

 

[El_Machinae]

My main emotional hurdle with the rich, artifact HW is that once it's 'developed' I can't figure out how to specialise it. Rich worlds -> production. Artifact worlds -> research. Both? Dilemma!

 

[creamcheese]

I usually do both, with an emphasis on research. with Sub you can fill it so full there are enough citizens to go around. Maybe not optimal, I'll have to experiment with something besides artifacts. The home world is usually one of my best worlds through the whole beginning of the game even without specialization.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I find the home world usually outperforms the others during the first half of the game. It got a head start on them. But I rarely use the rich or artifacts home world since I would rather use the points on something else that can help more than just one planet out (such as +1 ind, res or even farm).

As for the dilemma about whether to build or research, I adjust as needed. When I need the ship sooner, I emphasize production, when it's the new tech, then research. Other times I find a happy middle ground. Any way, my home world crew seem to mostly be needed to make food for the rest of the colonies till I get some decent terraforming techs.

 

[creamcheese]

I find the home world usually outperforms the others during the first half of the game. It got a head start on them. But I rarely use the rich or artifacts home world since I would rather use the points on something else that can help more than just one planet out (such as +1 ind, res or even farm).

As for the dilemma about whether to build or research, I adjust as needed. When I need the ship sooner, I emphasize production, when it's the new tech, then research. Other times I find a happy middle ground. Any way, my home world crew seem to mostly be needed to make food for the rest of the colonies till I get some decent terraforming techs.

The home world outperforming is one reason I like artifacts and rich, you get much more out of that world in the beginning. Especially on impossible, you aren't going to get all that many colonies that are worth anything for a long time; and your home world bears the brunt of the early game.

Arguments can be made for +1 research vs artifacts, and I have to say I'm fond of artifacts. That extra +1 per scientist early on can get you started that much faster (it can also become a real monster if you get a research leader early on). I rarely have any significant number of secondary worlds with any pop on researching, usually they just build a lab, computer, and autolab for the flat bonus and then become production worlds.

I have to say I'm not sure how +1 production would work out, this race is primarily a research race; diverting too many points to production enhancers slows my scramble to the powerful techs that win the game.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I have to say I'm not sure how +1 production would work out, this race is primarily a research race; diverting too many points to production enhancers slows my scramble to the powerful techs that win the game.

+1 prod kind of makes it so abundant worlds produce like they are rich worlds and makes poor worlds almost like they are as productive as abundant worlds. Even very poor can be made usable, if they are large enough. You end up with more planets you can use productively and more that are very productive.

I'm generally a researcher type of player, but the last couple of years I've been also using production oriented races and found them a lot of fun, too. It's a different play style. More aggressive earlier than with researcher races.

 

[creamcheese]

Well yes, but the issue arises when you try and do both production and research well, hence why rich HW might not be the best combo with artifacts. +1 production is certainly nice, especially for a production race like UniTol.

I have to say I usually don't care whether a world is ultra poor or not. ultra poors are usually farming/research planets for me. Stick an autolab on every rock that can be colonized is a good strategy I find.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Well yes, but the issue arises when you try and do both production and research well, hence why rich HW might not be the best combo with artifacts. +1 production is certainly nice, especially for a production race like UniTol.

One advantage of boosts in both prod and res is that since you need less people to get the same effect, you can use less, so res and prod can be done on the same planet, once pop is up. Dem has a boost in res, while uni has a boost in prod. What I like to do is when using a uni gov, I'll use +1 res, while when using a dem gov, I'll use +1 ind. That gives a nice all around improvement.

I have to say I usually don't care whether a world is ultra poor or not. ultra poors are usually farming/research planets for me. Stick an autolab on every rock that can be colonized is a good strategy I find.

I colonize everything, eventually, for those reasons and that each colony will further raise the command points.

 

[El_Machinae]

I avoid poor planets, they get low priority. They are unlikely to get a colony ship, but I would consider a colony base. My biggest priority tends to be slave races. Getting a Sakkra colonist early on creates huge leverage.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I avoid poor planets, they get low priority. They are unlikely to get a colony ship, but I would consider a colony base. My biggest priority tends to be slave races. Getting a Sakkra colonist early on creates huge leverage.

I give them the lowest priority, unless I need farmable planets and that is all that's around. Even so, I have noticed that some of the major building planets by mid game are large and huge poor planets I colonized early in the game. Once you get most of the industrial buildings set up on one of the larger planets, the difference in production between a poor and an abundant planet doesn't really seem to be all that great. Both will turn out the latest battleships at a good clip.

 

[creamcheese]

I give them the lowest priority, unless I need farmable planets and that is all that's around. Even so, I have noticed that some of the major building planets by mid game are large and huge poor planets I colonized early in the game. Once you get most of the industrial buildings set up on one of the larger planets, the difference in production between a poor and an abundant planet doesn't really seem to be all that great. Both will turn out the latest battleships at a good clip.

Yes, later in the game with more tech the difference is not so great, but early on can make all the difference. Usually my strategy is to colonize as many systems as possible, putting the colony ship on the most productive one. Then that colony can at its' leisure put out colony bases on the other planets in the system where they can spam housing or autolabs or whatever.