[GS] What's up with John Curtin and the runnaway science?

[Mahi]

To start, I'm aware some of you may not find it "crazy" because you handle the game better than I do. I mainly play Emperor but slide down to King if I want to sandbox the game.

So ever since the original release of VI I had a pet peeve with John Curtin. I often experience him to be in the majority of the games that I play (~85%), which naturally also contributes the frustration of seeing him (again) in a game.
But there's something with John Curtin and science that is quite wild. He is always VERY much ahead of you and most of the other AIs for a good portion of the game. It's usually first when I enter modern era that I start catch up with him. I swear, in the last game I played he finished Golden Gate while I was toying around in the renaissance. By 1905 he had Giant Death Robots?

Normally I often end up going for SV in many cases, since I generally play peacefully and in a sandbox kinda way but John Curtin is one of those AI, for me at least, who makes you throw away all others agenda to annihilate him (or just criple him enough to be insignificant).
I also very rarely experience him as neighbour. He's almost always out of easy reach for me, being either across an ocean or in the other end of a continent.

I guess my question is if the Australian ability "Land down under" really is that good? Sure he gets +1 yield for campus districts for charming appeal tiles and +3 for breathtaking appeal tiles but is that really justification enough to be so much in front of everyone else in the game? I guess John Curtin is biased to start close to coasts, which gives a good chance for breathtaking tiles than can propell him into a very good science start but.

 

[Bliss]

I think the snowballing effect is more related to the UA that grants his cities bonus production every time that people Declare War on him. I can't talk much because I don't have the DLC, however, using Korea as an example (because they always have absurd amounts of science), they always have a flaw. Korea strongly ignores the lower part of the technology tree and don't build military, making their lands very susceptible to invasion or, at least, pillaging raids.

 

[Mahi]

I think the snowballing effect is more related to the UA that grants his cities bonus production every time that people Declare War on him. I can't talk much because I don't have the DLC, however, using Korea as an example (because they always have absurd amounts of science), they always have a flaw. Korea strongly ignores the lower part of the technology tree and don't build military, making their lands very susceptible to invasion or, at least, pillaging raids.

Makes sense. I do believe much of the science John Curtin has in the current game is military focused (as mentioned Giant Death Robots), which would make sense if he is being declared war on frequently note (and which is the case). The fun thing about that is that it only makes him even more stronger in many cases because once another AI declares war on him it seems like he usually has the upper hand tech wise and he quickly turns into a steamrolling AI taking over other civilizations' land, thus giving him even more science.
But it makes sense because I think he could've easily had won SV if that was what he was going for.

 

[Leyrann]

I think this is mostly a result of the Charming and Breathtaking bonus science, which also gets doubled by the policy card. Also, natural Campus spots (near mountains) tend to be high appeal spots, so it tends to stack favorably. It's not all that uncommon if you have a mountain range to have a +12 science campus in every city (3 mountains + breathtaking appeal doubled by the policy card).

 

[Bliss]

Makes sense. I do believe much of the science John Curtin has in the current game is military focused (as mentioned Giant Death Robots), which would make sense if he is being declared war on frequently note (and which is the case). The fun thing about that is that it only makes him even more stronger in many cases because once another AI declares war on him it seems like he usually has the upper hand tech wise and he quickly turns into a steamrolling AI taking over other civilizations' land, thus giving him even more science.
But it makes sense because I think he could've easily had won SV if that was what he was going for.

Is he weak on the culture department? One of the drawbacks for military heavy civs is their culture (sometimes faith) and ALSO their economy.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

John Curtin is also a back stabbing warmonger in every game of mine. Even if I'm playing a peaceful cultural game and get along fine with the other AIs, he's always declaring surprise wars on me. The plus side is that it's 1) predictable, so if I see him in a game I know he's going to go to war with me and 2) he doesn't get his production bonus by starting the war.

 

[UWHabs]

John Curtin is also a back stabbing warmonger in every game of mine. Even if I'm playing a peaceful cultural game and get along fine with the other AIs, he's always declaring surprise wars on me. The plus side is that it's 1) predictable, so if I see him in a game I know he's going to go to war with me and 2) he doesn't get his production bonus by starting the war.

He's kind of the most "human" AI. He expands hard early, builds high-value campuses, takes out some neighbour city-states too.

 

[Tabarnak]

We can observe the same performance from mp games. John is often the strongest guy in science and stuff. The +3 housing coastal AND upgraded adjency are early insane bonuses.

And other players need to gangbang him because at 1vs1 it's almost a dead end if he gets declared(100% prod for 10 turns).

 

[Scaramanga]

He's got excellent campuses on appealing tiles and gets a boost if you attack him. He attacks other civs but doesn't like it if you do. I honestly don't know how to deal with him other than goading him into attacking you first, taking his city-states, and spying on him.