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What's your least favorite unit?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by HerrDoktor, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. JustinianVII

    JustinianVII Prince

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    It seems many people here underestimate the value of Grenadiers. Their value comes at the promotions they can get (CG, Pinch, Woodsman, Guerilla) that Machine Guns--what they upgrade into--cannot.
     
  2. Permanganate

    Permanganate Chieftain

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    Ironclads suuuuck. I don't think anything but an Explorer is so useless. At least MGs have their niche.

    Chariots are essential against a heavy axe user. Definitely not useless.

    Grenadiers are very useful in some games, but in my games I seem to get Infantry 2-3 techs after Riflemen, so a Grenadier's usefulness is short-lived.
     
  3. IagoAlberto

    IagoAlberto Warlord

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    I think Grenadiers are excellent city attackers, especially combined with cannons, which are along the same tech path, not to mention that of frigates. Although moving them to military science has definately reduced their usefulness. Ship of the line also has the same problem, too short of an era of usefulness.

    Chariots are great, I use them all the time either as medics or axe counters in my early stacks.

    Now explorers, I have been playing Civ IV all versions for over 3 years now and I can remember precisely, the one and only time, I built an explorer, on a terra map, he died within 5 turns of reaching the new world so Cavalry did his job and much better.

    Ironclads, USELESS! I hate the fact that the iron clad revolution which made battle fleets more manouverable is represented by this junk heap. The game designers obviously have a serious american-centric view of naval warfare in the industrial and modern era! Either that or they have never heard of HMS Warrior and its more than 30 successors. HMS Warrior, which was not only more heavily armed and armoured than all its contemporaries, it was a full 5 knots faster than even the fastest sailing ships in the fleet! And yet we have a civ Iron clad that only represents the poorly constructed iron clads built by ONLY the Union and Confederate navies for a short period in the 19th century.

    P.S. Herr Doktor, nice quote . . . "Why Didn't You tell the world?! It was to be announced at the party congress on monday. The Premier likes surprises.'
     
  4. JustinianVII

    JustinianVII Prince

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    Guess I should throw in my two cents about units I don't build:

    -Cuirassiers. They come at pretty much the same techs as Cavalry. I usually end up getting Rifling first.
    -Ironclads. Too slow, not enough range, not strong enough to warrant building them with the aforementioned limitations. Ships of the Line actually seem to do a better job at sinking Frigates than Ironclads (plus, they upgrade cheaper.)
    -Chariots: Despite their anti-Axe attack, the AI often does not leave Axes by themselves. That's mostly what they're good for, anyway; they're not strong enough to fight much else. I build a few, but not nearly as many as the AI likes to build.
    -Warriors. Good only until Archery. Archery, I get pretty early.
     
  5. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher King

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    I never understood why Explorers couldnt attack. I cannot think of how many times I had an explorer exploring a map and found a number of huts defended by a barbarian warrior.
     
  6. OttoManD

    OttoManD Prince

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    I have to say I agree with most of the stuff here.
    Although, I usually play on Terra Maps, so explorers are actually pretty clutch. Especially because you can send explorers to the new world on your circumnavigation caravels, it gives you a lot of goody huts, and all the AIs are willing to pay for your world map. And by the time you get astronomy and a colonizing force, most of the new world is explored. This doesn't make them super-units, but on Terra maps at least, they give you a decent $ bonus from goody huts and selling maps, as well as first crack at the best city locations in the new world.

    Ironclads are pretty useless, I think I've only used them as stationary defenders of naval chokepoints (like 1 square channels).

    I'm a huge fan of machine guns though. They just saved my bacon. I was fighting a war in the western borders when Catherine decided my eastern flank looked pretty tasty. Three machine guns managed to decimate her stack of grenadiers. It was like the Somme.

    Another addition here, I find the janissary to be awful. It turned me off the Ottomans completely.
     
  7. lauralaura

    lauralaura Chieftain

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    Ironclads. Of course. Everybody hates ironclads (how many versions of Civ have they been useless for now?)

    Muskets. Maces are better city attackers, longbows are better city defenders, knights are better at cleanup and escort. And you can't upgrade to muskets. And they're expensive for their age.

    Explorers. I often forget that they exist. And since Paper is a priority tech for me, with all its mapaliciousness, there's really no call for explorers. On a Terra map, it might be different, but I almost never play on Terra maps.

    Archers. Not so much because they're useless (they're very often extremely useful), but because if I'm producing them in large quantities, it means I have no metal, which makes me a sad panda.
     
  8. Bigfoot3814

    Bigfoot3814 Deity

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    Thats Right! Terra maps make explorers quite important. I like terra maps because they give me new areas to explore even later in the game. And because colonialism is fun!
     
  9. mentor

    mentor Chieftain

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    I am the least impressed by Musketmen and Ironclads. i have managed to find some value in all the other units but those two.
     
  10. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    Iron clads.

    Grenadiers are good for city defense and because macemen with city raider promotions upgrade to them.
     
  11. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    Ironclads. Only useful as stationary defenders, and, perhaps on maps like pangea as raiders before destroyers (50% stronger than frigates/SOTL makes them difficult to kill). But I prefer a mobile force of Frigates.

    Explorers are useless in 99% of games. Even on terra maps they get killed so quickly if they encounter anything, I am more likely to use a couple scouts I hopefully have lying around (possibly the initial one and one or two from huts).

    AT infantry: Primarily useful for their promotion once upgraded. This requires a fairly strong economy. THey can also find a place if you can't get tanks out.



    Some units in this thread I like:
    Paratroopers: the fastest land unit in the game (when starting from the city). Great for deploying behind enemy lines to soak up attacks (with guerrilla/woodsman promotions) and pillage resources/routes right off the bat.
    Cuirassier: While I generally bypass them, when stuck in a war breaking these out, can have a huge impact.
    Archers/MGs: sure you don't want your city attacked, but it can always happen, and in their ages these are rather useful. And they can always defend other terrain (not as well, but better than other units).
     
  12. Stylesrj

    Stylesrj Tabitha SEAL

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    Least favourite:

    Spy- Seriously, I don't like active espionage and the enemy is annoying with them
    Ironclad- Slow, limited in range and I can just tech to destroyers instead
    Curisasser- When these guys come around, I have Cavalry!
    Explorer- Everything is explored already by my first Warrior. Tough luck
    Anti-Tank: I play on Settler. Self explanatory
    Attack Submarine: As above
    Grenadier: Do I need to paint a picture? I play on Settler. When they get rifles, I get infantry!
    Airship: Don't cause much damage and they could at least sink ships or something
    Guided Missile: Built a few, but they can't destroy anything. How useless is that?

    Machine guns are useful for city defence after conquering them. No enemy force can withstand the hammering of machine gun bunkers!
    Airships are a case where I don't care how inaccurate they are in real life. They need more use as I don't need recon when my Tanks roll in!
     
  13. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Chariots are fantastic, especially against Sitting Bull's dog soldiers. Give a few withdrawal to damage archers, and bob is your uncle (and fanny is your aunt). Egypt's war chariots are magnificent, and Persian Immortls really kick donkey.

    Grenadiers were brilliant in warlords, and on the way to cannons as well. The AI used to beeline rifling ASAP. Ragnar's berserkers upgraded to grenadiers was awesome.

    Explorers suck on a Terra map with barbs, because there are barbs standing on the goody huts! Modern/future starts, they make the best medics. If a scout survives until compass (very rare!), I'll upgrade him to an explorer for fun.

    Ironclads are OK to sit on your seafood resources, nothing else.

    Cuirassiers I found OK myself.

    Horse archers are probably my most underused unit, but my current game I am having quite a bit of success with them. The big problem is horseback riding, archery are too expensive to research early really.
     
  14. Tlalynet

    Tlalynet Emperor

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    Since BTS calvary have been really bad... They come with a defensive counter unit they have little hope of beating. Explorers unless you have a good GG city and can give them Woodsman III off the bad. Ironclad Gunboats, but I play WolfShanze Mod so Ironclads in general are very good.

    Why are people down on paratroopers? They can be availible before Marines and have the same Str value and hammer cost. Unless you need ampib you might as well use the paradrop bonus. And whats with HBR being dead end? It gives Horse Archers, which will whip at least one AI early on even on Monarch, Elephents, which are the earliest STR 8 unit if you can get them, and Knights, which are youre only way to selectivly target cities deep in enemy territory mid game. Curiasar can be ok if you play slow and teck in that order.
     
  15. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    For the Ironclads- look at Wolfshanze's mod- he has the Warrior in there I think.

    Explorer is really the only unit I've never found a use for- typcially my healer unit is of all things war elephants and chariots

    Other units I rarely use- SAM infantry- I'd rahter counter air with air
    Anti-Tank- too weak
    Cannons in base game- they just come too late.
    The endgame units I rarely use due to not needing them.
     
  16. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    HBR isn't a deadend (cavalry/knights) but it is an expensive diversion. Good for conquest style games though...

    If I'm not going for a quick stomp I put it off until I need wellies or knights or cav.

    Warlords you don't need HBR for wellies.
     
  17. Tlalynet

    Tlalynet Emperor

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    Thats fair, HBR is a very conquest oreinted teck to reserch.

    WolfShanze Ironclad Battleships and Ironclad destroyers are a solid step up from Frigate and Ships of the Line, when you play Wolfshanze mod you really do think, I'm gonna need steam power to rule the seas, at least untill combustion.
     
  18. Stylesrj

    Stylesrj Tabitha SEAL

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    I don't use SAM Infantry either. I hate it how Machine Guns upgrade to them and Infantry...

    Mobile SAM and SAM Infantry are two units I do not use either. I play on Settler, so the AI cannot get aircraft before their butts are kicked
     
  19. Slobadog

    Slobadog King

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    My least favorite unit is the explorer. I only build explorers for the fun of it.

    Since i love going through chemistry, military science, steel, railroads, combustion, i usually have time to find some kind of use for MGs, Grenadiers and ironclads.
     
  20. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Chariots are good, early defenders against axes / most barbs. They're aboslutely worth it.
    Explorers are tards, there youre right.
    Cuirassier, while at first might seem insignificant, actually has 2 strengths that the knight hasnt - it's increased basestrength, plus it is a gunpowder unit, therebyignoring walls/castles. Considering however, that this is buggy like hell, I catch ya point.
    Grenadiers are niche, but not unusable.
    MGs are tigerwoodsjesusgods! No collateral, drill line, stack or city defenders. Youdont know the power of them until you DoW on an AI and forgot you gave them one to keep monty out of their lands. They plow anything before (and even sometimes till) infantry down.
    Paratroopers are good on most maps, especially archipelago and the rocky ones.

    The extra move, maybe? The fact that they flank siege weapons?

    Yeah once had 2 defenders (MG + inf) take out Peter's 8 attackers (2 catties, 6 cuirassiers :))

    They die too easy? they are the only units that can survive when losing! How can they die too easy? Ar eyou not guarding your stacks?

     

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