What's your opinion on civ switching?

[McSpank01]

China doesnt exists in real life? China is the result of all the dinasties, its not just one, and thats what i played. Its very rational.

The concept of China in previous Civs was really using the word ‘China’ to refer to what was really just one specific period in Chinese history. Your concept of China that you are clinging to and demanding to play as is completely artificial and so getting upset that you can’t play as this personal concept that doesn’t actually exist makes no sense.

Buildings didnt change in previous versions, you had upgrades, which is differen

They upgraded to reflect the age, but were often graphically themed to reflect the geographic area of your civ. How is that different to what happens now? If you go from Han to Ming architecture , are you literally freaking out?

and werent based on a decision forced to do at a set time

Again.. Ages

Your solution is to ignore the whole civics tree? Just like your "solution" is to ignore everythign in the game that doesnt fit your narrative.

Yes because that is exactly what Classic mode would involve. You can ignore the 4-5 extra civics you get from your new civ if you wish. Why is that so hard to do? What is the problem. You want classic mode, there it is, you don’t get the extra civics. Enjoy.

The "reset" can be made without any interruptions, at the end of the turn you get the new age message and the game upgrades your units, changes the diplomatic relations, etc, without sending you anywhere and without interrupting the flow of the game.

lol this makes zero sense. You are still talking about resetting your game and doing all the things that people have complained ruin the flow, and you are doing it because.. ages. It’s the opposite. You could remove civ switching completely, so the classic mode I mentioned and the age reset would still happen and it would still break up the game. I’m struggling to see why you find this so difficult to comprehend?

Serious question, have you actually played Civ 7 or are you just imagining how it works from stuff you read?

 

[bladex1200]

Imagine going to a football("soccer") game to see your favorite team Arsenal play.

When second half starts, you watch as instead of Arsenal, it's the italian team Lazio Fc walking out of stands!

Also they have totally change their tactics, are diving and waving their hands in front of the referee.

You watch in shock but a guy next to you just shrugs and says, "What's the big deall. They just changed their players and logo and name and playstyle. It is still a football team with eleven players. Stop being so emotional! Go Lazio!"

Worth noting that up-front Civ IS saying you'll be changing during the game. So really this would be like expecting people NOT to leave when Arsenal stops playing and stick around when Lazio subs in.

Or, for perhaps a more akin comparison, some boxing fans will watch all the fights on a card. Many viewers are ONLY there to see specific fights, and that can explain viewer discrepancies when famous figures like Mike Tyson or Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao are boxing (even if the other boxers on the card are themselves very talented and have their own fanbases).

 

[ehecatzin]

One is that there are less surprises to what your neighbor civs are as they are always from the selection of current age. No more spawning between Zulu and Netherlands, now its always the ancient civ.

I loved past civ games despite finding America in the ancient era, not because of it. I'm really finding it so fascinating how It's the other way around for some people... Tho I see your point about repetiveness, I think that will be lessered once we got a fuller civ lineup.

Third problem is that civs are there for only a third of the play. Like Carthage has a cool ability with towns but you lose it, unlike in Civ 6 and 5 where Phoenician/Carthagian ability is useful whole game. Also some civs you need to wait for ages to play, like Russia.

You do keep quarters, unique improvements and civics. Which impact your whole game as well. (it would be very interesting to have events allowing you to build 1 more quarter or improvement from a past civ)

And yes, there's still lots of holes within civ paths, and modern feels like half an age, compounding the problem for those civs, in the case of Russia, I would love to see Kievan Rus, or Muscovy as predecesors.

 

[Kev1916]

A better example would be if WoW suddenly would tell you to change your race from Orc to Tauren, for no reason. And people like him telling you its just a cosmetic change

Na it's worse been like changing from Horde to the Alliance ( spit ) . FTH

Lok'Tar Ogar

 

[TylertheDestroyer]

I thought we already settled about the number of players outside Steam with the polls?

And yes, I'm pretty familiar with this misinterpretation of data, let's not repeat it in this thread.

No we didn't at all, the only polls I've seen shows that like 80-90% of people are playing on PC or Steamdeck last time I checked.... and I'm the one misinterpreting data....? Do you live in a different reality than the rest of us?

 

[stealth_nsk]

No we didn't at all, the only polls I've seen shows that like 80-90% of people are playing on PC or Steamdeck last time I checked.... and I'm the one misinterpreting data....? Do you live in a different reality than the rest of us?

I replied literally in the thread with that poll. Once again, no need to spread the same discussion over all thread on the forum.

 

[Kev1916]

Imagine going to a football("soccer") game to see your favorite team Arsenal play.

When second half starts, you watch as instead of Arsenal, it's the italian team Lazio Fc walking out of stands!

Also they have totally change their tactics, are diving and waving their hands in front of the referee.

Harsh but true re Arsenal, same old Arsenal always ..

Thou re Civ Switching you really cant choose to go Arsenal from the start of mini game one , you'd be forced into picking some obscure lower league team then move up to say a team from the championship.
Then if you stomach it, you final get to pick a Premiership team for extra time

 

[McSpank01]

Imagine going to a football("soccer") game to see your favorite team Arsenal play.

When second half starts, you watch as instead of Arsenal, it's the italian team Lazio Fc walking out of stands!

Also they have totally change their tactics, are diving and waving their hands in front of the referee.

You watch in shock but a guy next to you just shrugs and says, "What's the big deall. They just changed their players and logo and name and playstyle. It is still a football team with eleven players. Stop being so emotional! Go Lazio!"

Nah, if we are going to use that analogy it's more like you go to watch Arsenal play, in the second half they bring on some subs, they change formation, they play more attacking, maybe they go with a more direct style.

I mean you could keep making analogies all day, the complaints about Civ switching still don't make any real sense if you actually look at the things that actually change in the game when you change civs.

 

[Crashdummy]

The concept of China in previous Civs was really using the word ‘China’ to refer to what was really just one specific period in Chinese history. Your concept of China that you are clinging to and demanding to play as is completely artificial and so getting upset that you can’t play as this personal concept that doesn’t actually exist makes no sense.

They upgraded to reflect the age, but were often graphically themed to reflect the geographic area of your civ. How is that different to what happens now? If you go from Han to Ming architecture , are you literally freaking out?

Again.. Ages

Yes because that is exactly what Classic mode would involve. You can ignore the 4-5 extra civics you get from your new civ if you wish. Why is that so hard to do? What is the problem. You want classic mode, there it is, you don’t get the extra civics. Enjoy.

lol this makes zero sense. You are still talking about resetting your game and doing all the things that people have complained ruin the flow, and you are doing it because.. ages. It’s the opposite. You could remove civ switching completely, so the classic mode I mentioned and the age reset would still happen and it would still break up the game. I’m struggling to see why you find this so difficult to comprehend?

Serious question, have you actually played Civ 7 or are you just imagining how it works from stuff you read?

Before i played a full China, not just a dinasty, i dont know what you are talking about

I think we are talking about different things with the buildings, before they changed a bit graphically, yes, but not that much, and it was reflecting the time, not a new civ. Now you get new buildings that dont match with your starting Civ (because they come from a new Civ)

Classic mode wouldnt involve that, Classic Mode would continue the civics tree, now you want us to ignore it. Lets be clear, i want a Classic Mode that allows me to play any Civ from the start, Russia, Japan, any, and of course all of them would have a full, complete civic tree

About resetting the game, yes, the resets come from Ages, but that is not what breaks the flow the most. What breaks the flow the most of the game literally TAKING YOU AWAY from the game, into a new game selection screen. It literally stops the flow and removes you from the gaem. That is 100% due to Civ Switching. The Ages resets break immersion, yes, but they do NOT break the flow, you are never interrupted due to Ages. You are mixing stuff. Ages break immersion, Civ switching break immersion and flow. Again, there is only one thing that removes you from the game completely into a selection screen. Its not because of Ages, its because you are forced to select a new Civ. It seems to me the one that is having trouble with comprehension is not me

I have played Civ 7, you just refuse to read or fail to understand

 

[McSpank01]

Before i played a full Chihna, not just a dinasty, i dont know what you are talking about

You never did though. You played as a civilisation with a title of 'China', but all the UUs and UBs and pretty much everything associated with it were referring to Han or Ming dynasty China. After a certain period in the game 'China' just becomes generic Asian civ. If that is what you want the game to keep doing, yeah go 'classic mode' mate.

I think we are talking about different things with the buildings, before they changed a bit graphically, yes, but not that much, and it was reflecting the time, not a new civ. Now you get new buildings that dont match with your starting Civ (because they come from a new Civ)

Ok make this sentence make sense. What does a Roman building in Modern age look like? What does an American building in Antiquity age look like? There is no answer to that. This stuff is all in your head. There is no difference between playing as Rome and then upgrading to Normans, getting Norman buildings in Civ 7 and moving to Medieval in 6 and getting.. Norman buildings. It's the same.

Classic mode wouldnt involve that, Classic Mode would continue the civics tree, now you want us to ignore it. Lets be clear, i want a Classic Mode that allows me to play any Civ from the start, Russia, Japan, any, and of course all of them would have a full, complete civic tree

What do you mean? There is a Civic tree, its the one every civ gets. So you want an extended, specialised civics tree that is different in each Age now? But you didn't get that in Civ 6. Why do you want new stuff?

What breaks the flow the most of the game literally TAKING YOU AWAY from the game, into a new game selection screen.

Lol, so what is breaking the flow is.. one screen? Wow. All the other stuff that literally moves all your pieces and changes what your buildings are doing, resets relationships, changes your tech an civics tree, changes your legacy paths, changes your yields, introduces religion and other mechanics.. that stuff is not breaking the flow.. but having to click through a screen is.

 

[King Flevance]

I always play my first game as Greece, however, Civ 7 has intentionally made each civ represent a certain flavor. The previous games, once we left the ancient age, my Greek "flavoring" was mostly gone with whatever remains just leaning on the traits of the leader whom is naturally paired with Greece. This leaves a trace of that flavor, that brand, through all of the later ages. So the game becomes mostly generic (flavorless) with a touch of Greek influence or impression. In Civ 7 though, when you settle 3 coastal cities and pick the Chola on age transition, you are the Chola - and any Greek influence is washed out by the heavy Chola influence now in the game. It is not a generic flavorless rest of the game, it has a very distinct and strong flavor that has changed very much as to overpower that hint of Greece that still remains. Like pouring a 4 oz. bowl of nacho cheese on a spoonfull of salsa, the cheese will overpower that trace amount of salsa's flavor.

That is the entire point of civ switching is that it feels different. If it didn't feel different it would be pointless to add it in the game.

I think switching teams at halftime is a good analogy. 2 teams set up the score and at half-time 2 different teams finish the game where the previous 2 left off. Different tactics are used, different unique players(units) are used, and a different identity is used.

 

[McSpank01]

I always play my first game as Greece, however, Civ 7 has intentionally made each civ represent a certain flavor. The previous games, once we left the ancient age, my Greek "flavoring" was mostly gone with whatever remains just leaning on the traits of the leader whom is naturally paired with Greece. This leaves a trace of that flavor, that brand, through all of the later ages. So the game becomes mostly generic (flavorless) with a touch of Greek influence or impression. In Civ 7 though, when you settle 3 coastal cities and pick the Chola on age transition, you are the Chola - and any Greek influence is washed out by the heavy Chola influence now in the game. It is not a generic flavorless rest of the game, it has a very distinct and strong flavor that has changed very much as to overpower that hint of Greece that still remains.

That is the entire point of civ switching is that it feels different. If it didn't feel different it would be pointless to add it in the game.

I think switching teams at halftime is a good analogy. 2 teams set up the score and at half-time 2 different teams finish the game where the previous 2 left off. Different tactics are used, different unique players are used, and a different identity is used.

The whole point is it is totally up to you how you move your civ forward. If you can’t take the transition of Greece to Chola.. then don’t do it! Take Spain maybe, if you think the more logical move is someone more European. You don’t even have to build Spanish buildings or change the city names to Spanish or use their civics if you don’t want to.

 

[King Flevance]

The whole point is it is totally up to you how you move your civ forward. If you can’t take the transition of Greece to Chola.. then don’t do it! Take Spain maybe, if you think the more logical move is someone more European. You don’t even have to build Spanish buildings or change the city names to Spanish or use their civics if you don’t want to.

Taking Spain just gives Spain flavor instead. I can't just pick Greek flavor. The point is that the specifically Greek flavor is gone. Civ 1-6 I had that all game. Sure, it diluted as the game went on but once you pick another civ at age transition, the Greek flavor WILL be overpowered by a new civ. Some people do not like that about Civ 7.

You obviously have to know that not using the new traditions or the powers of the new civ is not really a good solution. Why opt to not play into the strategy of the new civ you picked? Picking Spain and ignoring Treasure fleets to pretend Spanish flavor isn't in the game is delusional. It isn't a fix for this problem.

 

[Krikkit1]

Taking Spain just gives Spain flavor instead. I can't just pick Greek flavor. The point is that the specifically Greek flavor is gone. Civ 1-6 I had that all game. Sure, it diluted as the game went on but once you pick another civ at age transition, the Greek flavor WILL be overpowered by a new civ. Some people do not like that about Civ 7.

You obviously have to know that not using the new traditions or the powers of the new civ is not really a good solution. Why opt to not play into the strategy of the new civ you picked? Picking Spain and ignoring Treasure fleets to pretend Spanish flavor isn't in the game is delusional. It isn't a fix for this problem.

Which is why I think a “one civ game” mode should have bonuses from the attributes in the “off ages” So the “Greek flavor” will be mixed with a Diplomatic/Cultural flavor…which hopefully complements it.

 

[McSpank01]

Taking Spain just gives Spain flavor instead. I can't just pick Greek flavor. The point is that the specifically Greek flavor is gone. Civ 1-6 I had that all game. Sure, it diluted as the game went on but once you pick another civ at age transition, the Greek flavor WILL be overpowered by a new civ. Some people do not like that about Civ 7.

Depends what you mean by Spanish flavour? The buildings change, but wouldn’t they change anyway? Seems like a pretty coherent update to me. You keep your old buildings and UB, you keep traditions and city names.

You obviously have to know that not using the new traditions or the powers of the new civ is not really a good solution. Why opt to not play into the strategy of the new civ you picked? Picking Spain and ignoring Treasure fleets to pretend Spanish flavor isn't in the game is delusional. It isn't a fix for this problem.

But this would apply if you had the same civ all game too? If you pick Greece then in exploration age there is nothing unique about what you are doing. In Civ 6 you don’t have a Greek flavour all game either, you get more at the start but as time goes on you are basically as generic as ever.

 

[Crashdummy]

You never did though. You played as a civilisation with a title of 'China', but all the UUs and UBs and pretty much everything associated with it were referring to Han or Ming dynasty China. After a certain period in the game 'China' just becomes generic Asian civ. If that is what you want the game to keep doing, yeah go 'classic mode' mate.


Ok make this sentence make sense. What does a Roman building in Modern age look like? What does an American building in Antiquity age look like? There is no answer to that. This stuff is all in your head. There is no difference between playing as Rome and then upgrading to Normans, getting Norman buildings in Civ 7 and moving to Medieval in 6 and getting.. Norman buildings. It's the same.

What do you mean? There is a Civic tree, its the one every civ gets. So you want an extended, specialised civics tree that is different in each Age now? But you didn't get that in Civ 6. Why do you want new stuff?

Lol, so what is breaking the flow is.. one screen? Wow. All the other stuff that literally moves all your pieces and changes what your buildings are doing, resets relationships, changes your tech an civics tree, changes your legacy paths, changes your yields, introduces religion and other mechanics.. that stuff is not breaking the flow.. but having to click through a screen is.

Yeah, i was playing a China which had some stuff from Han, some from Ming... which is what i said, a sum of dinasties and not just one. A FULL China

I am not asking for realism in the buildings, the point is that those buildings, that of course werent equal to reality because America was not in antiquity, were the buildings of that Civ in the game

Why dio i want new stuff? Because its a new game? I dont want Civ 7 to be the same as Civ 6. I want the new combat, i want the new town/cities, i want the navigable rivers, i want the specialized civics. I just dotn want Ages and Civ switching. Its really not that hard to understand

Taking you away from the game, to several screens is indeed breaking the flow, what did you imagine was breaking the flow? All the other stuff do not break the flow, it breaks the immersion. You are confusing stuff. Both Ages and Civ switching break immmersion, but only civ switching breaks the flow of the game

 

[WillK96]

Depends what you mean by Spanish flavour? The buildings change, but wouldn’t they change anyway? Seems like a pretty coherent update to me. You keep your old buildings and UB, you keep traditions and city names.

But this would apply if you had the same civ all game too? If you pick Greece then in exploration age there is nothing unique about what you are doing. In Civ 6 you don’t have a Greek flavour all game either, you get more at the start but as time goes on you are basically as generic as ever.

The buildings change to architecturally Spanish buildings, your leader is referred to as the leader of Spain, and you play with Spain's bonuses. That is fundamentally different than any other Civ and your continued insistence that noticing this is "irrational" and "unrelated" to the gameplay is made in bad faith. You have been doing nothing but trolling for several pages.

 

[King Flevance]

Depends what you mean by Spanish flavour? The buildings change, but wouldn’t they change anyway? Seems like a pretty coherent update to me. You keep your old buildings and UB, you keep traditions and city names.

But this would apply if you had the same civ all game too? If you pick Greece then in exploration age there is nothing unique about what you are doing. In Civ 6 you don’t have a Greek flavour all game either, you get more at the start but as time goes on you are basically as generic as ever.

What I mean by Spanish flavor is that you can now build conquistadors. You have new Spanish themed traditions to improve naval gameplay. New Spanish UBs that clash against those Greek ones. Literally, the gameplay is tailored to shout "You're Spain!" In your face.

As I said the leader and UA in Civ 6 give a hint of that original Greek flavor when put against generic gameplay. (P.S. Civ 1 and 2 had nothing but generic gameplay with no Uniques)

Your proposed solution is to stick your fingers in you ears, shut your eyes, ignore your civic tree, ignore your UBs, UUs, and basically play against that civs strategy (play poorly) just to pretend civ switching isn't in the game.

I would recommend you just play a game that you DO enjoy and let Civ 7 be what it is - a game that leans into the civ switching concept.

 

[Bug Repellent]

Ok, so what is China? It’s just a word. The China from Civ 6 was just a catchall word which is really referring to a specific dynasty from Chinese history. Your whole concept of this ‘China’ you are playing as is completely artificial and made up. It doesn’t exist. You are getting upset that you can’t play as a faction that literally doesn’t exist in real life. Do you understand the irrationality of that?

Then you say the buildings change? The buildings changed in previous versions too? So what? Were you bothered by generic Asian buildings turning into generic Victorian buildings before? How is Han Chinese buildings turning into Ming Chinese somehow completely immersion breaking compared to the generic Asian version you had previously?

You can’t play literally ignore the civ specific civic tree if you want to, and you get to keep traditions from your old civ. So explain how this is so game breaking for you that you cannot tolerate it?

And you are just wrong about why the game stops. The game stops to reset the board and move you into a new age, the civ switching is just a small part of that, you could remove civ switching and the transition would still be jarring. The issue with stopping the flow is because of ages.

It's not just an icon or a word for me. Immersion, my empire identity, and AI empire identity all matter to me. When I play Surviving Mars, it matters to me that Earth is colonizing Mars, not Gliese 581c colonizing Gliese 581b. A game "Surviving Gliese 581b" wouldn't work for me, even if all game mechanics remain the same.

 

[Niallism]

Taking Spain just gives Spain flavor instead. I can't just pick Greek flavor. The point is that the specifically Greek flavor is gone. Civ 1-6 I had that all game. Sure, it diluted as the game went on but once you pick another civ at age transition, the Greek flavor WILL be overpowered by a new civ. Some people do not like that about Civ 7.

You obviously have to know that not using the new traditions or the powers of the new civ is not really a good solution. Why opt to not play into the strategy of the new civ you picked? Picking Spain and ignoring Treasure fleets to pretend Spanish flavor isn't in the game is delusional. It isn't a fix for this problem.

This is simply untrue. My Greek old quarter persists, as do the Greek government traits I've unlocked in the unique civics tree for that Civ, and the names of the cities.