When do you get Metal Casting?

[Druin]

Generally I go for it when I start wanting to fix my city happiness issues. I'm not a huge fan of hereditary rule (can't be bothered to make units for most cities that are nearing the happy cap), but forges are often a big happiness booster since they double the happy effects of gems, gold, and silver. The extra productivity is a nice bonus, of course.

I tend to end up putting it somewhere around when I'm going for Paper / Philosophy. That just seems to be where it ends up being convenient to pick up. There's no real plan behind this, of course.

Funny, I find that my games go the exact opposite way. I get Monarchy and then HR takes care of my happiness which makes it really hard to justify giving away techs for MC.

It is just so much easier to build an archer than a forge

 

[Gwynnja]

So, to recap...
1. When IND, with Oracle
2. With gems/gold/silver, when nearing happiness limit
3. When triremes become a necessity to protect seafood from barb galleys
4. When pursuing a Deity knights domination/AI capital razing scheme

 

[Deckhand]

So, to recap...
1. When IND, with Oracle
2. With gems/gold/silver, when nearing happiness limit
3. When triremes become a necessity to protect seafood from barb galleys
4. When pursuing a Deity knights domination/AI capital razing scheme

5. Optics beeline (e.g. for circumnavigation bonus and astronomy trade)

 

[Gwynnja]

5. Optics beeline (e.g. for circumnavigation bonus and astronomy trade)

I don't know about this. On maps with lots of islands it's important, but in that case I'd want metal casting early for Triremes rather than beelining the circumnavigation bonus. I wouldn't want to jeopardize liberalism for optics, although in a lot of my games I'm able to trade for optics (and usually other back fill techs) for education to snag astronomy with liberalism.

 

[huerfanista]

I love to oracle MC with a coastal start when playing as Liz, Vicky, or Willem - not for the or but for 4 coastal tiles. In fact, I'll usually try to go GLH> oracle (MC) > colossus. It's key to get out a strong 2nd city early to take over worker/settler production, however. The english starting techs allow you to go for BW first for early slavery and quick first settler (and Vicky is IMP for yet another boost to settler production). It's a huge boost in the early game, and colossus is very cheap if you have copper. The AIs will avoid it if you get it first, so it's great trade bait, and PH gives you a shortcut to CoL if you crash your economy rexing.

 

[mirthadir]

Optics can be legit for when you are isolated or semi-isolated and want to get the magic modifier for trade. Beelining optics lets you start trading, which is huge. Going early MC -> optics -> (trade for alpha and calendar) -> bulb astro is strong on all levels. Circumnavigation is just gravy.

 

[mirthadir]

Casi: You do realize that the odds of barbs lasting until Toko has swords is pretty low right (as in your chariot losses are more lucky to arise naturally than for the AI to lose out barb cities for so long, so badly)? And that losing only 3 chariots against 3 hill archers is STILL astoundingly good "luck", right?

Please let me know when you intend to actually finish a game and prove your point. This should be easy for you, if your statement is actually correct.

 

[qyll]

Forges are nice, but workshops are more or less crap in the early game unless you're running caste system. If I'm playing a water map, metal casting becomes a high priority since it's on the way to astronomy. On a more land based map, I'll pick up metal casting around the time I bulb philosophy. At the latest, I'll get it around the time I finish education.

 

[Casi]

Casi: You do realize that the odds of barbs lasting until Toko has swords is pretty low right (as in your chariot losses are more lucky to arise naturally than for the AI to lose out barb cities for so long, so badly)? And that losing only 3 chariots against 3 hill archers is STILL astoundingly good "luck", right?

You are amazing xD
There is a little error in your arguments, i'll point it out for you.
Your theory seems to be that i waited x turns until i got lucky fight results. As new random seed is off, that's the only option. On the other hand, you say the chances that barb cities would last long are small. So now please do a mathematical breakdown of how it would be possible in that small time, to out-wait the fights as you are so sure i did and had to. You seem to love the maths stuff, gogogo...
heh in reality iam bored of this game, and even more of you and other Einsteins who don't realize they already got sucked into the over-analyzing, so don't worry this is the last time i check this board for sure, go post whatever you want for your satisfaction.

 

[goodolarchie]

heh in reality iam bored of this game, and even more of you and other Einsteins who don't realize they already got sucked into the over-analyzing, so don't worry this is the last time i check this board for sure, go post whatever you want for your satisfaction.

Sounds like you're frustrated rather than bored. Not all Einsteins that play the game, just ones that post on the boards

"Overanalyzing" is how most of us got up to the final difficulties. I supposed the board could be used for something else.. like banally discussing how our games played out, or how excited we are for Civ V, but I would rather it stay Einsteinian!

 

[mirthadir]

Casi: real strategy is Einsteinian. More importantly real strategy is repeatable. Therefore as long as your games continue to be statistical outliers, most strategists will properly discount them when drawing strategic conclusions. And it is not just the chariots, it the is the initial resources in the BFC, it is how close your economy scrapes to bottoming out, and it is how you have lots of barb cities that don't get taken by the AI while you build the mids.

As far as waiting on the RNG, please. The random seed being off just means you have to optimize your attack order. For instance you have 8 chariots outside of both cities. You attack the hill and the first three die, the 4th kills. Same seed, you attack the flat three times, kill 3 archers and then attack and kill the 1st hill archer. Not to mention that there are plenty of other things which can change the order of the randoms being dumped into combat. Save and reload for order of attack optimization looks suspisciously like your results. A few deaths that are completely unavoidable, but nowhere near the expectation value.

So hey, if you want to make a positive contribution, please just play out a normal game and post.

 

[thecowwarrior]

I always try to get it by building the Oracle, then start scouting the waters with a Trireme, as Galleys just get eaten alive by barbarians.