When do you tech trade?

TheWilltoAct

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I had been in the habit of sort of trading all the time (provided I was getting a good deal and not giving away a critical tech) but now I'm starting to feel like I should do the opposite and never trade... cuz when I trade aren't I giving my enemies an advantage and why would I want to do that? Now, I know that's probably wrong thinking but I am really not sure when to trade... definitely looking for some advice here. A large part of my question has to do with how much the AIs trade amongst themselves... certainly I don't want to be giving the whole AI "world" a tech I worked hard to get, just because I traded it to one civ. Now I know that can be worked around somewhat in that I could trade that tech to multiple civs on the same turn, but I can only trade it with civs who are friendly with me.

Can anyone help me with my conondrum?
 
I had been in the habit of sort of trading all the time (provided I was getting a good deal and not giving away a critical tech) but now I'm starting to feel like I should do the opposite and never trade... cuz when I trade aren't I giving my enemies an advantage and why would I want to do that? Now, I know that's probably wrong thinking but I am really not sure when to trade... definitely looking for some advice here. A large part of my question has to do with how much the AIs trade amongst themselves... certainly I don't want to be giving the whole AI "world" a tech I worked hard to get, just because I traded it to one civ. Now I know that can be worked around somewhat in that I could trade that tech to multiple civs on the same turn, but I can only trade it with civs who are friendly with me.

Can anyone help me with my conondrum?

I trade as I see fit and do not have any regard for what the AI does.

That said there are times when you can be a little smarter about trading, such as when you have a monolopy on a tech.

Example: Say you bulb Theology with an GP or Philosophy with a GS, and found any of those religions. You can now trade that to each AI, say theology for metal casting, theology for COL, theology for currency you get the idea (providing the AI wants to trade and they are not far off from getting it themselves.). That's 3 good techs from 1 great person. Phil is great for getting Fuedalism and Machinery.

I have also been more free is giving teh AI the better end of the trade. I end up getting more in the end and the AI is much happier.
 
Here are just some examples of times you might want to trade.

- Trade when you need to.

This one is simple. If you're under attack and you need a military tech, quickly - or if you need any tech in a hurry, come to that - then don't worry about trading for it. As long as you're getting a big advantage out of the trade, it doesn't matter (much) whether the AI is benefitting from it.

- Trade with the slowest AI.

Now, sometimes you'll have to trade with the 'best' AI, because they're the only ones with useful techs. But often, near the beginning of a game, you'll find that there's only one guy left who doesn't know Monotheism or Sailing. In that case, you may as well trade it to him... after all, if you don't, then someone else will.

- Trade when your monopoly is broken.

Say you were the first to research Philosophy, and you want to keep it to yourself. However, ten turns later, your biggest rival researches it himself. Trade it away now! After all, one of you is going to give it to all of the other AIs. Whoever does that will get a big advantage. It might as well be you.

- Trade to more than one person at the same time.

Let's say it's near the beginning of the game, and you've researched Alphabet. If you're lucky, you're the only one who knows it. If you're even luckier, you're the only one who knows Writing. In that case... trade Writing with one guy for Sailing. Trade Writing with someone else for Pottery. Trade writing for Priesthood so you can start building the Oracle. If you're lucky, you can trade Writing for half a dozen different techs... each AI benefits a little, but you benefit a lot.

Now, here's the most important one:

- Trade for a reason.


This one's really hard to do - certainly, I don't manage this most of the time. However, it's one of the things that separates the good players from the great players. Every time you have the opportunity to trade, ask yourself what you'd get from trading, and what you'd get from not trading. Then pick between the two.

You'll have to weigh up for yourself whether ten turns' headstart on that wonder is worth missing out on the benefits of trade. You'll have to decide for yourself whether you can risk giving Gunpowder to a warmonger (perhaps if you bribe him to fight someone else, it's actually a good idea...). All such decisions will be easier if you've thought through the consequences beforehand. You should always know:

- What will I be able to do with my new techs?
- What will the AI do with the techs I'm giving them?

Finally, remember that you don't always have to trade techs for more techs. You could sell them for gold (allowing you to upgrade units or run a higher research %), you could sell them for better AI relations (possibly leading to a diplomatic victory), or you could use them to bribe an AI into war (slowing their science and keeping their armies busy). Be creative.
 
I have also been more free is giving teh AI the better end of the trade. I end up getting more in the end and the AI is much happier.

agreed. sometimes when i'm ready to trade a monopoly tech, my definition of "trade" includes selling for spare change or even gifting it to civs that have (or offer) no techs. the diplomatic benefits can be helpful, and if i don't benefit from trading the tech chances are somebody else will eventually. it's situational and it's a balancing act, since a civ appreciates a gift more if it's not well-known, but after you trade/give it away a bit then the others value it less for trades.

sometimes when i'm beelining a certain path but i know i'll need to backfill something, i'm really generous with the pre-reqs of what i hope that they'll research for me. one example is "clearance sale on metalcasting, now go research machinery for me pretty please!" day for my friends. mach blocks a lot of techs, like optics when i want to use lib for astro, so i need it but i prefer to have somebody else get it out of the way for me.

disclaimer: there are exceptions for me (pre-reqs to lib, alphabet to give them spies and trading opportunities with each other), but i'm more likely to trade techs than some/most players. partly confidence that i can use the "2-for-1 benefit" better than they will, partly because i generally prefer diplomacy mind-games over warmongering. many folks prefer to hang on to their tech advantage as long as they can.
 
point is if you don't trade they will eventually research the tech themselves and you'll have to selfreaserch a tech they have instead(assuming they have something to trade). As long as you don't crash into wfyabta it should be fine to trade most of the time. Normaly people trade big like 2 times in the game. After alpha and after liberalism.
 
There are some good points in there, thanks a lot for the advice.

I think my favorite point is "Trade for a reason". There is no reason to trade for resources you don't yet need, nor techs that are not a part of your current strategy - I'm trying to make that a guiding principle for my civving now heh.
 
Finally, remember that you don't always have to trade techs for more techs. You could sell them for gold (allowing you to upgrade units or run a higher research %), you could sell them for better AI relations (possibly leading to a diplomatic victory), or you could use them to bribe an AI into war (slowing their science and keeping their armies busy). Be creative.

i'd add another, something like "trade with the civ least likely to go trading the tech to others. toku is an example, without random personalities he'll only trade techs that everybody other than the person he's trading with knows the tech already, or if he's friendly with the trade-target. given his stinginess and traditional closed borders, he doesn't tend to hit friendly a lot. but i might get him friendly with me by gifting him techs, and if i do he can be handy as a "hey honey, could you go beat up on so-and-so to protect me? i'm not prepared for it" /flirt /kissup.
 
On any level below noble, i think, you can often win the game without ever trading a tech or even opening your borders. However, given that the AI civs are trading techs with each other, and vassals are researching techs for their masters, it gets harder to maintain a tech lead without trading.

One thing I've noticed, though, is that the AI civs often seem to go by pure point value of offered techs. I've sometimes been able to offer two cheap techs worth about 300 apiece that most other civs have and get a tech worth 600 in exchange from the only other civ that has it.
 
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that even though tech trading gives an advantage to one opponent, it elevates you a bit above all opponets that aren't in the trade.

So if the one opponent is someone who you don't consider a threat to victory, then I say trade with impunity.

That is if you're playing with no tech brokering.
 
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