When does "troops on my border" expire?

[weakciv]

When you have your troops on another civ's border and they give you the passing through or war option, is there a diplo hit to other civs if you declare war AFTER saying we are just passing through?

 

[headcase]

I know the civ you pull it on will have a diplo hit by the name of "You said you would move troops away, then broke your promise!" (whether you go to WAR or not) I am not aware whether it affects other civs at all.

 

[bcaiko]

When you have your troops on another civ's border and they give you the passing through or war option, is there a diplo hit to other civs if you declare war AFTER saying we are just passing through?

The diplomatic penalty applies if you EVER declare war on that Civ after saying "just passing through..." To my knowledge, I believe it does affect all Civs, but maybe the one you warred on most.

 

[Mercade]

The diplomatic penalty applies if you EVER declare war on that Civ after saying "just passing through..." To my knowledge, I believe it does affect all Civs, but maybe the one you warred on most.

The warning should expire after a certain amount of time if indeed you were just passing through, just like denouncing expires. Of course if you still or again have troups near someone's border, they may well ask you again ...

 

[Deggial]

Last time I bothered about the peacefull answer I waited the usual 30 turns (standard speed) until I invaded. I didn't got the remark about broken promises and no negative counter after we made peace again.

This happend several patches before now, but I don't think it changed since then.

 

[Lunchmoney]

On a slight side track....
Why cant we, the human players, tell the AI to move along? Or to not settle near by?

 

[Deggial]

Good question!

The only valid answer might be, that the diplo hit you get when breaking your oath is "local" to the respective civ you betrayed and doesn't affect other civs.

Therefore it would be pointless to demand something like this to any AI nation, as there will be no AI-relevant consequences if the AI you asked breakes their promise. (You, as the player, will be pissed, of course. But who cares? )

Things would be different, if there would be a "global" effect to all other civs, too, if they witness such a betrayal (by the human player or AI).

It might be very nice, if there would be sort of a "casus belli", where other civs understand why you declare war to a third party and therefore you get less or even no warmongerpoints at all!

 

[weakciv]

sorry for not being back on and thanking you guys.

In the game I was playing I had units 3 tiles from Arab borders because I had explored my land mass and was planning an invasion but needed a troop build up (i needed about 60 turns between building and trans-contenent troop movement). About 15-20 turns later I get the "your troops on my border" message and I found that the Arab borders had grown directly at me. Maybe this was because he had 2 cities near by and they were both expanding in the same direction.

Anyway, so I said I was just passing through and moved my units away. Once my army had been built/moved (around 45 turns after his warning) I declared war. After the war I left him with one city and noticed the diplo hit about lying about my troops. That is why I thought I'd ask the question. But I also was thinking about how that affects other nations and (in my game at least) it seemed others didn't care that I had "lied" to the Arabs.

 

[Deggial]

What is your game speed? 30 turns is the usual time for deals to expire only at normal speed, of course.

 

[weakciv]

it was a king, standard, fractal. other deals/denouce were 30 turns. this just seemed odd. I would have expected it to "wear off". I know for sure it was more than 35 turns after his warning because I had started a wonder on the same turn and the city building the wonder could not have added any more hammers.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Did you clearly move from the border?

 

[weakciv]

yup. the 2 units who were on the border moved back 4 tiles. and I didnt move any units within 2 tiles of his borders until just before I delared war.

 

[Deggial]

it was a king, standard, fractal. other deals/denouce were 30 turns.

Oh well, then I have to admit it seems to be a bug or - if intended - worth a change request. The promise should expire after some time.

As said before: my observation was some time before now. I remember not getting a "betrayer!" remark. I don't know any more, if the civ was still alive after our war or if I did extinct them completely without any chance to have negativ modifiers against me...

 

[bcaiko]

yup. the 2 units who were on the border moved back 4 tiles. and I didnt move any units within 2 tiles of his borders until just before I delared war.

Like I said, in my experience and the experience of other players the "Justing moving along..." response never seems to expire. I got hit with that penalty in my latest game when I went to war in the Modern era after being asked waaaay back in the Medieval era.

 

[AriochIV]

Why cant we, the human players, tell the AI to move along? Or to not settle near by?

There is an option to demand that an AI player not settle near you. It's a waste of time, though, as I have never seen it succeed, and it stays as a permanent diplomatic hit with that civilization for the rest of the game.

 

[bcaiko]

There is an option to demand that an AI player not settle near you. It's a waste of time, though, as I have never seen it succeed, and it stays as a permanent diplomatic hit with that civilization for the rest of the game.

I actually have seen it succeed. They say something to the tune of, "Fair enough, I'll avoid settling near you for now. Clearly diplomacy is not your strong suit." I suspect if your military strength is high enough, that causes the AI to listen.

 

[AriochIV]

It's quite irritating that the AI considers such a demand from the player an insult and they permanently hold it against you... but this doesn't deter them from making such demands of you every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[Mercade]

It's quite irritating that the AI considers such a demand from the player an insult and they permanently hold it against you... but this doesn't deter them from making such demands of you every day and twice on Sunday.

Yeah, at the very least they should hold it against you only temporarily.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

sorry for not being back on and thanking you guys.

In the game I was playing I had units 3 tiles from Arab borders because I had explored my land mass and was planning an invasion but needed a troop build up (i needed about 60 turns between building and trans-contenent troop movement). About 15-20 turns later I get the "your troops on my border" message and I found that the Arab borders had grown directly at me. Maybe this was because he had 2 cities near by and they were both expanding in the same direction.

Anyway, so I said I was just passing through and moved my units away. Once my army had been built/moved (around 45 turns after his warning) I declared war. After the war I left him with one city and noticed the diplo hit about lying about my troops. That is why I thought I'd ask the question. But I also was thinking about how that affects other nations and (in my game at least) it seemed others didn't care that I had "lied" to the Arabs.

Careful with assumptions. Firaxis LOVES to make UI that misleads or lies to the player and set red herrings. They might not care, but they might have a secret hatred for you too. I believe the intent is to punish rookies and casual players they supposedly cater to for not playing the game an extra 200 hours .