When is bulbing the right choice

[shulgi]

The builder in me really loves highly productive cities and getting that with those oh so shiny great scientists, engineers and merchants is tempting. Everytime I hear more experienced players talking about bulb paths I realize that I only understand part of the great people strategy. If I had to guess, bulbing may be the best choice for certain gambits, trade bait or jump-starting a key military unit when you really want to use it.
Then again, that builder has been wrong about many things before..

 

[OJimiJam]

You basically got it with those three examples. Its often used to bulb philosophy and education on the path through to liberalism for the free technology.

 

[pigswill]

It depends on the difficulty level you're playing; if you know the basics of empire development its probably not worth bulbing much below monarch because the AIs won't have much to trade and you can get a military tech advantage through basic research.

 

[ohjames]

I think the more relevant question is "when is it correct to run specialists?"

If you've already got a great person, and you don't immediately need an Academy, a Shrine, a golden age, a hurried wonder or a big chunk of Great Merchant cash it's almost always correct to bulb - the only other thing you could do is settle it. The real cost of the bulb isn't the opportunity cost of not getting one of those other things - it's the cost of running the specialists to pop the Great Person in the first place.

 

[shulgi]

^^ Not bulbing more often is a bad strategy?

Outside of shrines and academies, sometimes a trade route, I almost always guess the best decision is settling but I don't really know that it is. Say I already have three great scientists in my science city, four is better... and so on. I probably self-tech far too much and don't trade enough. I've probably only used bulbs on a few expensive techs like philosophy, education, one for astronomy, (engineering would be good but great engineers are hard to come by)... and after these my research is usually in good enough gear that I can tech pretty fast anyhow. I am probably too used to self-teching and having patience for techs but it's going to take some doing to change this pattern if I should. Slowly I am getting better at trading.

Where I am at now, I do okay but it may not be best overall strategy, checking for opinions.

 

[cseanny]

Lately I prefer something like 1GS for Academy in Capital and then aim to get 3-4 GM (1free Economics) for upgrading units into Rifles or Cav, and from there I really prefer GE for Kremlin (rush buy or great whipping), Mining Corp, and if on a different continent and space comes into play, another GE for some of Gorges Dam is nice.

 

[shulgi]

^^ Probably why I can be beat to late game wonders, thanks! Mining corp is ridiculous

 

[noto2]

The way I see it, in the very early game settling is relatively stronger, in the mid game bulbing is stronger, in the late game golden ages are stronger. Also, bulbing is strong if I need a short term boost in science, like if I'm playing a conquest game and plan on conquering much of the world at a certain tech (say steel, for example). In that case what matters is getting to the tech ASAP and having the most hammer output. Bulbing is more useful there than settling. But in games where I'm the tech leader already and planning on running representation, bulbing really isn't worth it, I might as well keep settling and continue to be the tech leader.

 

[ohjames]

^^ Not bulbing more often is a bad strategy?

Outside of shrines and academies, sometimes a trade route, I almost always guess the best decision is settling but I don't really know that it is.

If you're not running Representation, and you're not settling for a specific reason (teching Horseback Riding for an early rush comes to mind), bulbing is generally preferable to settling. If you can bulb a key military tech, you have a much larger window with which to abuse it before your neighbors develop countermeasures; and even if you can't parlay a military advantage from your bulb, being first to a big tech generally means you can trade it around to everyone else on the continent, so that you're actually getting 3-4 techs from the bulb and not just one.

Bulb early, bulb often.

 

[noto2]

right, I agree that if you're not planning on using representation, settling is much less valuable and I wouldn't really settle many GP. Still, in the very early game settling can be quite powerful. The 6 beakers or gold that a GS or GM gives can be 10% or more of your economic output and a bulb at that point in the game is wasted since there is no overflow. Also remember the GS gives a hammer, and at that point in the game that might represent 1/4 of the city's output and a GM gives 1 food. Other GP are different. Unless I want a religion and/or shrine or if I want theocracy for the XP, bulbing a great prophet is less rewarding than other GP. He's great for settling, though, as 2h, 5G is a very good bonus. The engineer is a special case since you can then pick a wonder to get for free.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

It's not a question of when bulbing is the right choice, it's more what is good to bulb.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Other than things like very early academy or something, bulbing is stronger. It takes way too long for settling to catch up to a full-value bulb or trade mission.

 

[Core Imposter]

I've never settled one but I have used them for Golden Ages instead.

 

[jarhead_leif]

I've never settled one but I have used them for Golden Ages instead.

On the contrary, i always settle my GS's in my TGL, OU, NE, academy city(capital).

Run Beaurocracy and (if lucky) Representation with the pyramids for a research boost. And at the same time, more GS likely to spawn.

I think it's not a pretty good idea to bulb early and often. Techs in the early game are cheap and easy to trade. I only bulb when Lib is on the way.

__________________

cute^^

 

[WelshGandalf]

In the early game, a bulb can be worth 10 or 15 turns of research (Education and Philosophy are good examples) - this is pretty massive. Even bulbing maths can be 8-12 turns worth of beakers. Late game it can be only 2-3 turns of research so late ones are better used for golden ages. I used to settle everything but once you understand the value of bulbing properly, it becomes a lot more useful.

Settling is good if you're going for a long game, ie a space victory.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

On the contrary, i always settle my GS's in my TGL, OU, NE, academy city(capital).

Run Beaurocracy and (if lucky) Representation with the pyramids for a research boost. And at the same time, more GS likely to spawn.

I think it's not a pretty good idea to bulb early and often. Techs in the early game are cheap and easy to trade. I only bulb when Lib is on the way.

__________________

cute^^

Bureaucracy doesn't affect raw science, so it kind of distracts from your argument.

Worse, settled Great People don't impact your spawn rate. I'm not sure that's what you meant?

 

[noto2]

Other than things like very early academy or something, bulbing is stronger. It takes way too long for settling to catch up to a full-value bulb or trade mission.

The key words here being "full value". I often prioritize getting go early, like hiring scientists right away. In the very early game I hate wasting a gs bulbing something like alphabet. I find it's usually best to settle the first gs spawned, otherwise he sits there waiting for a long time for something to bulb, and in that time he could have been more useful.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

First gs is usually an academy. Palace has eight commerce....doesn't take much for academy to beat out settling.

 

[jarhead_leif]

Bureaucracy doesn't affect raw science, so it kind of distracts from your argument.

Worse, settled Great People don't impact your spawn rate. I'm not sure that's what you meant?

I know I was blabbering something wrong.

Lymond already told me about raw science and spawning GP. Now that settle things up, hehe. Sorry.

 

[noto2]

I still settle the first and academy the second. Sure the palace makes 8 commerce but who knows what I'm doing at that point in the game. Maybe I'm at war or REXing and my science slider is at 40%. Plus the hammer is nice at a time in the game where a city's hammer output will be 5-10.